He's on most top 10 lists, and those lists usually include the old timers like Cy Young and Walter Johnson. It's so difficult to compare baseball from 1900 to baseball in the past 40 years I really don't know what to do with those guys. In the 50's you've got Koufax, so he's sort of in between eras.

I think on most lists of "modern greats" is Johnson, Pedro, Maddux, Clements.

When you dissect those you've got 2 power pitchers and 2 guys with filthy movement and just a dominant mental game at setting guys up to swing at the wrong pitch.

I don't know. I think most would have him in the conversation.

Quote:

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Meanwhile Framber has walked 310 in his last 2 starts

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Only the White Sox, Angels, and Mets have allowed more walks this season. Meanwhile the Yankees have walked just 18 fewer batters than the Astros.

John Garcia (19th round pick from Grambling State) continues to be a huge surprise in Asheville. He's hitting .305 with 7 bombs and 30 RBI after a big night last night. OPS is over .800:

Gameday: Dash 11, Tourists 10 Final Score (06/20/2024) (milb.com)

Will Wagner is now hitting .315 after a nice night at the plate. He's a really interesting one. He can play anywhere in the infield besides SS- but doesn't really excel at a single position. He doesn't strike out much and walks a lot. Below average bat speed but he still has good contact skills. I've always seen some Mark Loretta in him. He's turning 26 soon so they'll need to see what they have at some point:

Gameday: Space Cowboys 3, Chihuahuas 4 Final Score (06/20/2024) (milb.com)

EastCoastAgNc said:

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“As a fan, you don’t want to come to the game and just watch guys get mowed down for nine straight innings."

New from me & @enosarris

Offense has sunk to near historic lows. We looked at all the reasons - with great input from the hitters.https://t.co/b1G2FJWsU7

— Jayson Stark (@jaysonst) June 21, 2024

Dead balls

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They had made them worse this year. They keep changing it.

Today against a RHP I think this would be my lineup

Altuve 2B
Bregman 3B
Yordan DH
Diaz C
Cabbage RF/LF
Singleton 1B
McCormick CF
Loperfido LF/RF
Dubon SS

redline248 said:

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Today against a RHP I think this would be my lineup

Altuve 2B
Bregman 3B
Yordan DH
Diaz C
Cabbage RF/LF
Singleton 1B
McCormick CF
Loperfido LF/RF
Dubon SS

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Probably not too far off except Pena probably plays.

Farmer1906 said:

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EastCoastAgNc said:

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“As a fan, you don’t want to come to the game and just watch guys get mowed down for nine straight innings."

New from me & @enosarris

Offense has sunk to near historic lows. We looked at all the reasons - with great input from the hitters.https://t.co/b1G2FJWsU7

— Jayson Stark (@jaysonst) June 21, 2024

Dead balls

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They had made them worse this year. They keep changing it.

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Dead balls and analytics which has teams always playing for the XB/HR/crooked number instead of manufacturing runs when presented with the opportunity. When you're always swinging for the big hit you have less bat control and more whiffs.

Ag_07 said:

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Here's a random baseball trivia factoid I saw that I thought was absolutely insane

Greg Maddux faced 20,421 batters in his career.
Only 310 of them saw a 3-0 count.
177 of those 310 were intentional walks.

That's just unfathomable to me and I think Maddux is severely underrated when speaking in terms of the greatest pitchers of all time.

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I've often wondered how good that Braves staff would have been with the strike zone we have now. Technology has really forced umpires to try to be more precise. It doesn't mean you don't see the occasional outside strike, but pitchers can't live out there like the Braves used to.

Bregman has had a strong month of June

but his season OPS is still only .711

on-base % is 60 points below his career average

texasaggie2015 said:

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Will Wagner is now hitting .315 after a nice night at the plate. He's a really interesting one. He can play anywhere in the infield besides SS- but doesn't really excel at a single position. He doesn't strike out much and walks a lot. Below average bat speed but he still has good contact skills. I've always seen some Mark Loretta in him. He's turning 26 soon so they'll need to see what they have at some point:

Gameday: Space Cowboys 3, Chihuahuas 4 Final Score (06/20/2024) (milb.com)

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Next homegrown Marwin/Dubon when he's a FA?

iBrad said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Here's a random baseball trivia factoid I saw that I thought was absolutely insane

Greg Maddux faced 20,421 batters in his career.
Only 310 of them saw a 3-0 count.
177 of those 310 were intentional walks.

That's just unfathomable to me and I think Maddux is severely underrated when speaking in terms of the greatest pitchers of all time.

---

I've often wondered how good that Braves staff would have been with the strike zone we have now. Technology has really forced umpires to try to be more precise. It doesn't mean you don't see the occasional outside strike, but pitchers can't live out there like the Braves used to.

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Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz probably still would have been really good. Maddux had amazing control and movement, and Glavine was pretty masterful at mixing speeds

EastCoastAgNc said:

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“As a fan, you don’t want to come to the game and just watch guys get mowed down for nine straight innings."

New from me & @enosarris

Offense has sunk to near historic lows. We looked at all the reasons - with great input from the hitters.https://t.co/b1G2FJWsU7

— Jayson Stark (@jaysonst) June 21, 2024

Dead balls

---

what adds to the intrigue...

so many good pitchers are injured

yet offense is still decreasing

FrioAg 00 said:

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He's on most top 10 lists, and those lists usually include the old timers like Cy Young and Walter Johnson. It's so difficult to compare baseball from 1900 to baseball in the past 40 years I really don't know what to do with those guys. In the 50's you've got Koufax, so he's sort of in between eras.

I think on most lists of "modern greats" is Johnson, Pedro, Maddux, Clements.

When you dissect those you've got 2 power pitchers and 2 guys with filthy movement and just a dominant mental game at setting guys up to swing at the wrong pitch.

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My brother and I were in San Diego on a fam vacation in 2008 and wound up going to a Padres-Tigers game that Maddux, at age 42, started for the Padres. Watching him pitch against someone besides the Astros was like going to a master pianist concert. Other than Curtis Granderson, the Tiger were clueless against him, with a lineup of a still-good Cabrera, Pudge, Carlos Buillen, Magglio Ordoenz, etc. We sat by some Tiger fans who routinely threw their hands up in the air as he dotted the corners - 7 innings pitched, 5 hits, 1 earned run, 85 pitches.

Sadly, relief pitcher Heath Bell blew the save and then vultured a win in the 8th inning. Big Gigem to Casey Fossum who was also in that game.

With Jake Bloss being added to the 26-man roster to start tonight and Joey Loperfido on his way to Houston today to join the Astros, according to a source, the Astros will have to create a couple of roster spots.

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) June 21, 2024

Probably Contreras or Hernandez on the pitching side, Hummel on the position side? Or maybe carantini hits the IL

Tucker to the 60 day with a broken leg. Here it comes.

I'm kidding. Mostly. Sort of. I just don't trust them to tell the truth.

It does seem a bit long for a bruise from a foul ball

texasaggie2015 said:

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Yeah, I've always been intrigued by Cabbage. He has really good tools and Dana is a big fan of his upside. His big problem is strikeouts. If he can get them under control, he could be a solid player with big time pop.

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Cabbage was 30/30 at AAA Salt Lake last year.

Agree about the Ks.

agproducer said:

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texasaggie2015 said:

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Yeah, I've always been intrigued by Cabbage. He has really good tools and Dana is a big fan of his upside. His big problem is strikeouts. If he can get them under control, he could be a solid player with big time pop.

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Cabbage was 30/30 at AAA Salt Lake last year.

Agree about the Ks.

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Does Loperfido have better contact or power than Cabbage? I am not so sure.

I think Loperfido has a better contact ability but much less power. They're both close to the same age. It's interesting how the fanbase sees Joey as a future stud but wants no part of Cabbage.

texasaggie2015 said:

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I think Loperfido has a better contact ability but much less power. They're both close to the same age. It's interesting how the fanbase sees Joey as a future stud but wants no part of Cabbage.

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That is definitely true in the AAA sample this year. Cabbage has adjusted maybe a little better in the bigs so far.

texasaggie2015 said:

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I think Loperfido has a better contact ability but much less power. They're both close to the same age. It's interesting how the fanbase sees Joey as a future stud but wants no part of Cabbage.

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Cabbage has performed admirably. I agree that he could be more effective in cutting down on strikeouts but so could Peña.

https://www.neweracap.com/collections/mlb-all-star-game?sort_by=title-ascending&filter.p.m.my_fields.team=Houston+Astros



The workout one isn't bad..... but what in the actual **** was MLB thinking on the game hats

That's a good visual.

I think Cabbage would benefit from more regular PT. I think if that were to happen he'd improve and solidify himself as a 4th OFer, pinch runner, bench power bat.

Not sure how that would work out with the logjam of OFers we have.

Which is why we've got to do something ie trade someone (Chaz).

Since 2016, there are only two pitchers to have multiple games in the same season with 7+ IP and 0 Hits Allowed:

— Ronel Blanco (2024)
— Framber Valdez (2023) pic.twitter.com/7tbKrrh8lR

— Baseball Reference (@baseball_ref) June 21, 2024

texasaggie2015 said:

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I think Loperfido has a better contact ability but much less power. They're both close to the same age. It's interesting how the fanbase sees Joey as a future stud but wants no part of Cabbage.

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Shouldnt matter. Both should play. Big Jon is a good story but has no future. He can't play multiple positions and has no speed.

Farmer1906 said:

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Nope.Don'tLikeThat-MichaelScottOffice.gif

Man, really, really want these boys to win this home series against Baltimore.