He's still not your #5. Not when you can roll out Verlander Framber Javier Brown Big Luis/Lance/Blanco. This is crazy talk going on in here.

iBrad said:

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Lower back issues ended my baseball career in college. If I put in the reps, I had too much pain to be effective in games. If I dialed back my practice, my swing just wasn't there. And that was at age 20. Back issues in your upper 30s are magnified.

I think that's what we're seeing with Abreu. He may or may not be dealing with pain, but his core has been impacted and he's not the same hitter because of jt.

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I was at the game on Saturday night and watched him kinda close. My read is that his issue this year is different than his issue first half of last year.

Early last year, he was super armsy because his sore back prevented his legs/core from to syncing up.

This year he looks healthier and more able to engage his core in his swing (possibly from his pilates work in the offseason), but I think he's having a hard time syncing up his new-found mobility. He's trying to engage his legs/core but he's getting lungey toward the plate and having to bring his hands way in to compensate. If you watch his swing right now, his elbows are drawn in practically at his side through the ball.

As a result, he's not getting any extension. Throughout his career (even at his best), he's always had more of a "hands-in" swing relative to modern swings, likely because he's so damn strong that he doesn't need to optimize his power sequence. But right now it's super exaggerated.

It's also possible he's going back to old swing feels right now that aren't applicable anymore because he's more mobile than he was in recent years. It's a common theme in "swinging" sports that changes in body structure/mobility can render previous swing feels/thoughts irrelevant.

Just my two cents.

He and our coaching staff are obviously much more aware of his issues than I am and I suspect he's working behind the scenes to fix. But it's hard to time a 96 mph fastball up when your mind is cluttered with swing thoughts.

I think he's going to get it back on track eventually (like he did last year). IMO the criticism that "he doesn't care or doesn't look interested" is misguided. He's a human and he's frustrated. I'm also glad we have a manager this year who will move him down in the order / give him off days while he's figuring it out.

I guess I quoted myself instead of fixing this post. See below.

f1ghtintexasaggie said:

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Project Gemini said:

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He's still not your #5. Not when you can roll out Verlander Framber Javier Brown Big Luis/Lance/Blanco. This is crazy talk going on in here.

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Right now, France is preferable to Brown, and it's because of his control, not his stuff.

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So when Verlander comes back in lets assume 10-14 days, you want to bump Brown out of the rotation? Am I reading that correctly?

AgLA06 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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texasaggie2015 said:

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I don't disagree. But if you're relying on a couple #5 (or #4 best case) to carry you to the postseason.. that is less than ideal.

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This.

When Blair Henley's stuff grades out ahead of you, then you're probably not the dude we need in October.

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Sure.

Then there's also the fact that results on the mound matter after everyone's done geeking out about numbers on a paper. Practice and analytics are fun to hear about. They can also mean jack on game day.

Just ask Blair Henley after last night.

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Are you trying to say he's better than a 4 and should be in the rotation in October?

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I'm saying Blanco is the the only pitcher better than him on our roster at the moment based on the beginning of our season that is actually playing.

If we don't have better actually able to pitch in October it really doesn't matter.

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Does Javier not exist? Framber?

AgLA06 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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texasaggie2015 said:

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I don't disagree. But if you're relying on a couple #5 (or #4 best case) to carry you to the postseason.. that is less than ideal.

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This.

When Blair Henley's stuff grades out ahead of you, then you're probably not the dude we need in October.

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Sure.

Then there's also the fact that results on the mound matter after everyone's done geeking out about numbers on a paper. Practice and analytics are fun to hear about. They can also mean jack on game day.

Just ask Blair Henley after last night.

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Are you trying to say he's better than a 4 and should be in the rotation in October?

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I'm saying Blanco and Javier are the the only pitchers better than him on our roster at the moment based on the beginning of our season that is actually playing.

If we don't have better actually able to pitch in October it really doesn't matter.

Framber is just as close to a physic ward as to be an ace at the moment. Brown has control and walk issues. Seth is your next best option.

Adding injury to the situation is we're only providing 2.5 runs in support for France so far this year per game.

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texasaggie2015 said:

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You would take France over Javier?

I mean to each his own, but I couldn't disagree more about how some of you see France. I would love to be wrong though... and I hope I am!

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No. His stats pulled wrong when I copied it.

He's pitched better so far.

Farmer1906 said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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texasaggie2015 said:

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I don't disagree. But if you're relying on a couple #5 (or #4 best case) to carry you to the postseason.. that is less than ideal.

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This.

When Blair Henley's stuff grades out ahead of you, then you're probably not the dude we need in October.

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Sure.

Then there's also the fact that results on the mound matter after everyone's done geeking out about numbers on a paper. Practice and analytics are fun to hear about. They can also mean jack on game day.

Just ask Blair Henley after last night.

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Are you trying to say he's better than a 4 and should be in the rotation in October?

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I'm saying Blanco is the the only pitcher better than him on our roster at the moment based on the beginning of our season that is actually playing.

If we don't have better actually able to pitch in October it really doesn't matter.

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Does Javier not exist? Framber?

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Depends if you get Jekyll or Hyde for Framber. Every team I've played on would rather consistency instead of potential that only shows up half the time.

Yep. And had 6 walks in the less than 5 inning start before that.

It's Framber.

It was his first start of the year. He's going to be a little rusty.

Project Gemini said:

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f1ghtintexasaggie said:

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Project Gemini said:

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He's still not your #5. Not when you can roll out Verlander Framber Javier Brown Big Luis/Lance/Blanco. This is crazy talk going on in here.

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Right now, France is preferable to Brown, and it's because of his control, not his stuff.

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So when Verlander comes back in lets assume 10-14 days, you want to bump Brown out of the rotation? Am I reading that correctly?

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If the current trend holds for the next few weeks, yeah, that's what I would do. But it's still early, and Brown definitely has better stuff. He just needs the composure to execute consistently.

In order of starters I trust to have a solid outing (5 innings of 3 runs or less)

JV - injured
Javier
Framber - injured
LMJ - injured
Garcia - injured
France
Blanco (sample size still too small)
Brown
Bielak

So of our healthy pitchers… France is 2nd on my list. When everybody is healthy he's #6

Urquidy?

Marvin said:

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I'm not arguing that France is a playoff starter when the rotation shrinks to four guys. I was simply responding to Ketch's comment that the club is not sold on him long term. Seems like a false note considering what should be expected of him and how he has performed. He has done well to be a fifth starter in my opinion. Maybe there's no room when McCullers, Garcia, and Urquidy return, but he has performed as good or better than Brown at this point in their careers when looking at WAR and WHIP.

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If I say something on here, I've heard it from at least two people generally speaking.

Wabs said:

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Urquidy?

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I'm still thinking they use him as a bullpen guy like they did parts of last year

texasaggie2015 said:

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Marvin said:

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I'm not arguing that France is a playoff starter when the rotation shrinks to four guys. I was simply responding to Ketch's comment that the club is not sold on him long term. Seems like a false note considering what should be expected of him and how he has performed. He has done well to be a fifth starter in my opinion. Maybe there's no room when McCullers, Garcia, and Urquidy return, but he has performed as good or better than Brown at this point in their careers when looking at WAR and WHIP.

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If I say something on here, I've heard it from at least two people generally speaking.

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Again, I am not arguing what you heard. It was not an attack.

(false note, as in it didn't sound in harmony... not that you were reporting it falsely)

tylhair said:

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I agree, he's not just slumping he looks washed.

I was a Big Jon supporter last year- thinking he could draw walks and hit some bombs. Unfortunately he doesn't look any better than Abreu.

Brandon Belt is out there. Coulda got Votto cheap earlier. I'm not sure if Loperfido can actually play the position in MLB. If he can, seems like he will get a shot. Maybe Will Wagner?

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Jon has made really good contact and had some great AB's. Just needs to start finding grass. Regular playing time might help.

tylhair said:

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I agree, he's not just slumping he looks washed.

I was a Big Jon supporter last year- thinking he could draw walks and hit some bombs. Unfortunately he doesn't look any better than Abreu.

Brandon Belt is out there. Coulda got Votto cheap earlier. I'm not sure if Loperfido can actually play the position in MLB. If he can, seems like he will get a shot. Maybe Will Wagner?

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Singleton just needs to be a little more patient at the plate. He has a tendency to swing at the first strike he sees (much like Altuve). He has made some solid contact recently and maybe getting more reps will help him find some holes instead of fielder's gloves or foul territory.

BCEDAg said:

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tylhair said:

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I agree, he's not just slumping he looks washed.

I was a Big Jon supporter last year- thinking he could draw walks and hit some bombs. Unfortunately he doesn't look any better than Abreu.

Brandon Belt is out there. Coulda got Votto cheap earlier. I'm not sure if Loperfido can actually play the position in MLB. If he can, seems like he will get a shot. Maybe Will Wagner?

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Singleton just needs to be a little more patient at the plate. He has a tendency to swing at the first strike he sees (much like Altuve). He has made some solid contact recently and maybe getting more reps will help him find some holes instead of fielder's gloves or foul territory.

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My problem is it feels like Singleton is getting the Abreu treatment and they're grooving balls to him he's still barely chopping or flying out with. Yes, he's had a few loud outs but he's basically seeing batting practice up there with nothing to show for it

iBrad said:

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Lower back issues ended my baseball career in college. If I put in the reps, I had too much pain to be effective in games. If I dialed back my practice, my swing just wasn't there. And that was at age 20. Back issues in your upper 30s are magnified.

I think that's what we're seeing with Abreu. He may or may not be dealing with pain, but his core has been impacted and he's not the same hitter because of jt.

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Are you available to play 1B?

I'll be interested to see if Diaz gets some time at 1B. I'm really liking what I see from Caratini. Not saying he should replace Diaz at C, but maybe instead of DHing Diaz, start him at 1B when you want Caratini to get a start at C.

Cole Ragans on the mound for KC tonight

he's been good so far in 2024

only 2 runs & 6 hits allowed in 12 innings in his 2 starts

the Royals still lost both games however

W said:

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Cole Ragans on the mound for KC tonight

he's been good so far in 2024

only 2 runs & 6 hits allowed in 12 innings in his 2 starts

the Royals still lost both games however

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Yep, he could be tough tonight. 6.1 IP, 1 hit and 7 Ks against the O's.

The Porkchop Express said:

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iBrad said:

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Lower back issues ended my baseball career in college. If I put in the reps, I had too much pain to be effective in games. If I dialed back my practice, my swing just wasn't there. And that was at age 20. Back issues in your upper 30s are magnified.

I think that's what we're seeing with Abreu. He may or may not be dealing with pain, but his core has been impacted and he's not the same hitter because of jt.

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Are you available to play 1B?

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Sure. It's easy. Anyone can play first. I could probably also get two hits in 30 ABs, but I'd definitely have more than 11 strikeouts. That would likely be the result of my first 11 plate appearances.

tjack16 said:

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RO519 said:

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W said:

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3 hits for AB tonight

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Par for the course for my main man Breggy. Y'all get used to it. Contract year Breggy is emerging.

(are we still doing the defend your man game?)

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Bregman's great but my guy Javier is about to go 7 shutout tonight in KC with 14K

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Javi's great, but my guy HB is gonna spin about 70 breaking pitches and keep KC off balance all throughout tomorrow's game.

Maybe it has been discussed, but can we not play Caratini at first, and pull up Salazar as the back up catcher?
His bat has got to be more consistent than Abreu and Jon. Hasnt he played some first in the past?