shack009 said:

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It wouldn't be absolutely insane against a lefty pitcher. It just makes absolutely no sense against a right hander.

We saw them IBB Seager in the 3rd inning yesterday because they're completely unafraid of Grossman. Maybe they would walk Seager with Lowe hitting third, but at least we would then feel better about getting a hit after that.

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Context.

2 on (2nd & 3rd) - 2 Outs. Seager is up.
Result: In almost every imaginable scenario, you walk Seager who is 2nd in the AL in BA and one of the most professional hitters in MLB, to get to someone... anyone... who isn't. Grossman or anyone else... they walk Seager.

Him scoring was inconsequential to the situation.

DallasAg 94 said:

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shack009 said:

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It wouldn't be absolutely insane against a lefty pitcher. It just makes absolutely no sense against a right hander.

We saw them IBB Seager in the 3rd inning yesterday because they're completely unafraid of Grossman. Maybe they would walk Seager with Lowe hitting third, but at least we would then feel better about getting a hit after that.

---

Context.

2 on (2nd & 3rd) - 2 Outs. Seager is up.
Result: In almost every imaginable scenario, you walk Seager who is 2nd in the AL in BA and one of the most professional hitters in MLB, to get to someone... anyone... who isn't. Grossman or anyone else... they walk Seager.

Him scoring was inconsequential to the situation.

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So in one sentence you are saying that how good the hitter is matters (Seager), but then trying to say how good the hitter trying to hit once he gets on base doesn't?

Sound logic.

Proposition Joe said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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shack009 said:

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It wouldn't be absolutely insane against a lefty pitcher. It just makes absolutely no sense against a right hander.

We saw them IBB Seager in the 3rd inning yesterday because they're completely unafraid of Grossman. Maybe they would walk Seager with Lowe hitting third, but at least we would then feel better about getting a hit after that.

---

Context.

2 on (2nd & 3rd) - 2 Outs. Seager is up.
Result: In almost every imaginable scenario, you walk Seager who is 2nd in the AL in BA and one of the most professional hitters in MLB, to get to someone... anyone... who isn't. Grossman or anyone else... they walk Seager.

Him scoring was inconsequential to the situation.

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So in one sentence you are saying that how good the hitter is matters (Seager), but then trying to say how good the hitter trying to hit once he gets on base doesn't?

Sound logic.

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You are smart enough...

In most situations 2nd & 3rd - 2 Outs... you almost always walk the bases loaded to give you forced outs at any base. True or False.

If that is the go-ahead run, you may decide to not put him on base. There is only 1 player in the AL that you might consider protecting Seager, but the truth is... you'd likely still put Seager on. It was hyperbole.

So we're still doing suits and sneakers?

DallasAg 94 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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shack009 said:

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It wouldn't be absolutely insane against a lefty pitcher. It just makes absolutely no sense against a right hander.

We saw them IBB Seager in the 3rd inning yesterday because they're completely unafraid of Grossman. Maybe they would walk Seager with Lowe hitting third, but at least we would then feel better about getting a hit after that.

---

Context.

2 on (2nd & 3rd) - 2 Outs. Seager is up.
Result: In almost every imaginable scenario, you walk Seager who is 2nd in the AL in BA and one of the most professional hitters in MLB, to get to someone... anyone... who isn't. Grossman or anyone else... they walk Seager.

Him scoring was inconsequential to the situation.

---

So in one sentence you are saying that how good the hitter is matters (Seager), but then trying to say how good the hitter trying to hit once he gets on base doesn't?

Sound logic.

---

You are smart enough...

In most situations 2nd & 3rd - 2 Outs... you almost always walk the bases loaded to give you forced outs at any base. True or False.

If that is the go-ahead run, you may decide to not put him on base. There is only 1 player in the AL that you might consider protecting Seager, but the truth is... you'd likely still put Seager on. It was hyperbole.

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There's just so much wrong with this.

1) No, I wouldn't say in most situations with runners on 2nd/3rd and 2 outs you almost always walk the bases loaded.

2) But even if that were the case, it wasn't 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs -- it was 3rd base and 2 outs.

3) But neither of those really matter all that much, because even if you are defending putting Seager on base (which most people wouldn't argue against), you are still batting a guy hitting 0.206 vs righties behind him... in a scenario where in at least his first two AB's he'd be facing a righty.


You are acknowledging that the guy behind Seager is probably going to get a chance to hit in that scenario no matter who he is -- so does it seem smart that we'd want a guy who hits like Grossman to be that guy?

But wait! There's more!

In the T3 (man on 3rd, 2 outs), Kevin Cash IBB's Seager to pitch to Grossman.

In the T6 (man on 2nd, 2 outs), Kevin Cash does not IBB Seager (and pays for it).

Why would he decide to do it in the T3 but not in the T6? Because in the T3 he had a righty on the mound so he was happy with that matchup vs Robbie. In the T6 he had gone to Ponce, a lefty, so suddenly pitching around Seager to pitch to Grossman (who hits 0.309 vs lefties) didn't make sense anymore.

double aught said:

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So we're still doing suits and sneakers?

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I don't need to see Harold Reynolds in a pair of wingtips

Anyone interested in a suite for Tuesday?

$50 and some Taco Bell coupons

Sounds like a dude that will be active for the ALDS

n/m

It's the dumbest and most indefensible decision in the history of baseball to ever bat Grossman 3rd.

It's even dumber to bat him 3rd when Seager bats 2nd.

The primary job of the manager with the offense is to make out a lineup card that creates the best opportunities for his best hitters to do damage. Putting Grossman there took one at bat away from Seager and gave it to Grossman instead.

You can argue that Seager gets walked there no matter what, and I can agree with that sentiment, so then the job of the manager is to put someone in the 3 hole to make them pay for that, and the Rangers actually have a lot of great options here.

For reference Grossman was the 1207th best position player this year by WAR.

Outside of Semien (3rd) and Seager (5th), Bochy has Garcia (46th) Heim (81st) Taveras (92nd) Lowe (103rd) Jung (115th), Garver (130th) and Carter (176th with just one month in the league)

So given the option of those 7 players in the top 176.... he chose the guy who ranked 1207.

AggieEP said:

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For reference Grossman was the 1207th best position player this year by WAR.

Outside of Semien (3rd) and Seager (5th), Bochy has Garcia (46th) Heim (81st) Taveras (92nd) Lowe (103rd) Jung (115th), Garver (130th) and Carter (176th with just one month in the league)

So given the option of those 7 players in the top 176.... he chose the guy who ranked 1207.

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I'm skipping the 1st half because well... it was pretty funny and I'm assuming it was sarcasm.

So, with 30 players 1207 would exceed the 40 man roster. Remind me again... he was DH, right?! So, his position WAR probably doesn't concern me.

Crazy to think, the Rangers only scored 11 Rs in the 2 games and won both of them... How much more could we get if TexAgs laid out the batting order.

Rangers finished 1st in the AL for the following categories:
Runs: 881
HRs: 233
RBIs: 845
BA: .263
OBP: .337
SLG: .452
OPS: .789

Not even the cheating 2017 Asstros pulled that off

FYI, I don't think Garver was available.

I've been out of Texas for several years, so this past week has been my first time watching this group. Without even having looked at his numbers, my first thought after seeing Grossman bat was "man, this dude looks terrible. How is he hitting 3rd? He must be putting up numbers."

Looked up his numbers over several years. He isn't a major league player against righties. Amazing that he's even in the lineup, much less hitting 3rd.

DallasAg 94 said:

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The Fan is reporting Buster Olney indicates that Max is throwing live batting practice tomorrow.

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Max Scherzer might just throw to hitters tomorrow. What it might mean: https://t.co/w7jn93G1Rf

— Evan Grant (@Evan_P_Grant) October 5, 2023

GrapevineAg said:

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FYI, I don't think Garver was available.

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That's my only assumption.

And again, I have no problems with Grossman in the lineup vs lefties. Don't love him batting 3rd, but the splits at least can support it.

But batting 3rd vs righties is just indefensible.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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You are smart enough...

In most situations 2nd & 3rd - 2 Outs... you almost always walk the bases loaded to give you forced outs at any base. True or False.

If that is the go-ahead run, you may decide to not put him on base. There is only 1 player in the AL that you might consider protecting Seager, but the truth is... you'd likely still put Seager on. It was hyperbole.

---

There's just so much wrong with this.

1) No, I wouldn't say in most situations with runners on 2nd/3rd and 2 outs you almost always walk the bases loaded.

2) But even if that were the case, it wasn't 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs -- it was 3rd base and 2 outs.

3) But neither of those really matter all that much, because even if you are defending putting Seager on base (which most people wouldn't argue against), you are still batting a guy hitting 0.206 vs righties behind him... in a scenario where in at least his first two AB's he'd be facing a righty.


You are acknowledging that the guy behind Seager is probably going to get a chance to hit in that scenario no matter who he is -- so does it seem smart that we'd want a guy who hits like Grossman to be that guy?

But wait! There's more!

In the T3 (man on 3rd, 2 outs), Kevin Cash IBB's Seager to pitch to Grossman.

In the T6 (man on 2nd, 2 outs), Kevin Cash does not IBB Seager (and pays for it).

Why would he decide to do it in the T3 but not in the T6? Because in the T3 he had a righty on the mound so he was happy with that matchup vs Robbie. In the T6 he had gone to Ponce, a lefty, so suddenly pitching around Seager to pitch to Grossman (who hits 0.309 vs lefties) didn't make sense anymore.

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1. That was supposed to be directed to Seager, not all hitters.

Quote:

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(which most people wouldn't argue against)

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And yet, here we are...

And so, you're position is that if they had someone who hit Righty behind Seager they wouldn't have IBB him?

In the context above about the T3 and T6...as usual, you leave out context.

When Seager comes to bat:
T3, score 0-0
T6, score 6-0

You aren't going to let the other team's #1 hitter and the #2 BA in the AL beat you with 1B open. Once it was 6-0, now you're in a much different situation.

Either way... this terrible Manager we have just swept the WC round despite all of his poor decisions. **I guess**

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That's what you don't seem to understand -- it's not about "would they or wouldn't they have IBB'd the next guy"... maybe they would have, maybe they wouldn't.

Either way doesn't change that either way the guy batting 0.236 likely isn't going to drive the guy they are allowing on base in.

And I'm curious as to why you think at 0-0 the extra runner on base is important, but it's not important at 6-0? He wasn't IBB'd in the T6 because Grossman is/was a threat vs his lefty reliever. It's really not that difficult a game to figure out.

And yes, you can fall back on "he just won 2 vs Tampa Bay so he must not be that bad"... Not sure that actually refutes any point anyone has been trying to make. Good coaches make mistakes, bad coaches make mistakes, mediocre coaches make mistakes. Jimbo can punt on 3rd down every series on Saturday and possibly still win, doesn't make it smart.

Yes he was 1207, that many players who barely had a cup of coffee in the big leagues still had WARs above Grossman. You can look it up, that's just the facts based on what is on ESPN.com's WAR leaderboard. It includes all hitters and not just qualified hitters.

And I said position player WAR, just to indicate I wasn't including pitchers.

The fact that you find it unbelievable that he could rank that low should tell you all you need to know about his offensive contributions this year.

I think Grossman is largely a role player through his career.

Bochy's explanation was that he had 10BB in his past 6-7 games in the #3 sport and had over a .400 OBP.

As mentioned, Bochy is a creature of routine... to a fault, in many cases.

At the beginning of the season, he told Jung that he was going to be his #5 guy and that while there would be many ups and downs, he was committed to him hitting 5th. He didn't want Jung to press if when he struggled and was willing to ride out any slumps.
Jung batted:
3rd - 7GS
4th - 12
5th - 98
6th - 3
7th - 1
9th - 1

1: Semien
2. Seager
3. Mostly Lowe
4. Adolis
5. Jung

When Seager went down, Bochy maintained the lineup and moved as little as possible, keeping players in their roles.

Lowe hit a terrible slump in Sept. hitting .160. For whatever reason, Bochy decided to drop him in the lineup. Could it be his mother's health was enough of a distraction that Bochy thought he'd take some of the pressure off of Lowe?! I don't know. But I would say it is uncharacteristic that Bochy would move Lowe.

Statistically speaking, sure it is a mystery to have Grossman in the #3. Is it defensible? I think so.

It isn't that I find it unbelievable... my point was... he was playing DH... so his Defense means nothing. Where does he rank in Offensive numbers?!

Look... I"m not saying Grossman is a #3 hitter or that he will ever play a season in the Top5 of the lineup.

You're basically acknowledging that Bochy had him there because of what we said -- "because it worked the day before".

And that's the same reason he leaned into the bullpen every 473,000 times this season.

It's just who he has always been as a manager.

I'll totally throw in for 1/20 or whatever the # of tickets it comes with!

The lineup reminds me of A&M's 2022 lineup. I could see Texas going through 4 rounds of playoffs and never using a single pinch hitter. On top of that, Smith, Garver, Hedges, and Jankowski don't provide a defensive upgrade anywhere in the field.

What's the problem with the lineup? Am I on the Astros thread?

South Platte said:

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What's the problem with the lineup? Am I on the Astros thread?

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The problem is that if the rookies and/or guys hitting way above their career average come back to Earth, Robbie Grossman hitting 3rd is going to be a problem.

Evan Carter will be a leadoff man one day, but man I really like him at the bottom of this current lineup.

South Platte said:

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What's the problem with the lineup? Am I on the Astros thread?

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Not much...but I'd like
Carter
Semien
Seager
Garcia
Lowe
Jung
Heim
DH
Taveras

Can move Carter to 9 if you want, or switch Heim and the DH. I don't like the logjam at 5-8, but 9-2 make up for it.

Semien is a very good 2-hole hitter, and he gets to be one when you have a good OPB in the 9-hole.

I wonder if Garver had a small nagging injury. He was 0-for in the Seattle series.

I love him though. This guy played 4 years of college baseball at UNM. Check out his bio - - really impressive.

https://golobos.com/roster/mitch-garver-3/