I had terrrible flashbacks.Mr Gigem said:WestTexasAg said:Same here. We were one freaking out away from not having to worry about it.CampingAg said:
Saturday is Undecided vs. Luis Castillo. Sunday is struggling Jon Gray vs. George Kirby. My battered Rangers syndrome is flaring up. If we don't win tomorrow I'm going to be a wreck.
Where have we heard that before…
*****Official Texas Rangers 2023 Season Thread***** [Staff Warning]
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Last: 10 mo ago by LeagueCityAg
South Platte said:
So we send Latz down after 2.1 and no runs but we refuse to give up on Chapman after countless horrible performances. His career is over. I don't understand why we keep him in a Texas uniform. He's the one guy that just doesn't fit into what we are trying to do here.
Because he's really good in a non-close situation. This boneheaded manager can't seem to understand that though.
The thing with Chapman is that he is too unpredictable. He's a wild head case. He needs to pitch but not in the position he was put into tonight. Agree that Heaney could have closed the game and saved 3 BP arms.
Double Talkin' Jive...
Exactly.gigem1223 said:South Platte said:
So we send Latz down after 2.1 and no runs but we refuse to give up on Chapman after countless horrible performances. His career is over. I don't understand why we keep him in a Texas uniform. He's the one guy that just doesn't fit into what we are trying to do here.
Because he's really good in a non-close situation. This boneheaded manager can't seem to understand that though.
gigem1223 said:South Platte said:
So we send Latz down after 2.1 and no runs but we refuse to give up on Chapman after countless horrible performances. His career is over. I don't understand why we keep him in a Texas uniform. He's the one guy that just doesn't fit into what we are trying to do here.
Because he's really good in a non-close situation. This boneheaded manager can't seem to understand that though.
I'm not trying to be a jackass to you, but non-save means we have a 4 run lead. Do you know how ridiculous it sounds to have a guy that specializes in late-game non-save situations? How often do you find yourself late in playoff games with comfortable leads?
Me giving him a pass isn't insinuating he's been perfect. But calling for him to be fired or wanting him to retire is asinine. We've improved by 20 games from last year while having a historically bad bullpen.Proposition Joe said:CampingAg said:
I give Bochy a pass this year. There's never more than 1 or 2 arms he can trust, if any. And who those 1 or 2 are rotates on a weekly basis. It's a historically bad and inconsistent bullpen.
Ok, so logically if you can only trust 1 or 2... and you never know who those 2 are going to be night-in, night-out...
Then after one pitches well for the 7th, another for the 8th, why on earth would you go with a new one for the 9th?
Or pull starters that could still go another inning (not the case tonight, but at least a dozen nights this year).
Again, he's leaning into our biggest weakness. He has this desire to get everything clicking before the postseason... But we're on Game 159 with what is now the equivalent of a 1 game lead. Just win the ****ing game and worry about building confidence later. A confident bullpen sitting at home in October does you no good.
I agree he pulls pitchers too early at times. But we know his style now. So let's go clean it up in the offseason and get the arms to play to it. I don't think a 30-year manager who is known in the industry as a bullpen wizard doesn't just forget how to coach.
I'm not even saying you're wrong, but the very fact that there is a discussion that Andrew Heaney (93mph, 4.30 ERA) for three innings was the best option to close a playoff clinching game proves my point that no manager should be judged by how they managed this mess.Flounder Dorfman said:CampingAg said:
I give Bochy a pass this year. There's never more than 1 or 2 arms he can trust, if any. And who those 1 or 2 are rotates on a weekly basis. It's a historically bad and inconsistent bullpen.
You're giving him a pass after pulling Heaney after one inning and then Leclerc after another. Heaney should have been given the opportunity to close it out. Items not like he isn't my used to throwing three innings.
I don't like what happened, but nobody in the bullpen got too taxed tonight. Should have all arms available for tomorrow...if that makes any difference with this pen.
Just a well pitched game all around by everyone except for one guy. We all know who that is.
The offense definitely needs to get to Woo next game and officially get the playoff spot tho.
The offense definitely needs to get to Woo next game and officially get the playoff spot tho.
When Chapman or Smith gave us disastrous performances earlier this year, it put us in a multi-game tailspin. These guys better figure it out tonight or we are in danger of missing the playoffs after being 1 out away.
I've been the biggest Bochy supporter all year but he needs to grow up and quit being stubborn with Chapman. Bochy threw away a playoff-clinching game. This team snd Chris Young should be furious with him for doing that.
I've been the biggest Bochy supporter all year but he needs to grow up and quit being stubborn with Chapman. Bochy threw away a playoff-clinching game. This team snd Chris Young should be furious with him for doing that.
Rangers now 30-for-63 (47.6%) in save opportunities this year, lowest percentage in MLB. Ugh
— Mike Peasley (@PeasRadio) September 29, 2023
DeangeloVickers said:Rangers now 30-for-63 (47.6%) in save opportunities this year, lowest percentage in MLB. Ugh
— Mike Peasley (@PeasRadio) September 29, 2023
History?
It's the fact that Chapman didn't record an effing out. Not one single out.
I'm not freaking out yet. Playoff odds are still over 90%South Platte said:
When Chapman or Smith gave us disastrous performances earlier this year, it put us in a multi-game tailspin. These guys better figure it out tonight or we are in danger of missing the playoffs after being 1 out away.
I've been the biggest Bochy supporter all year but he needs to grow up and quit being stubborn with Chapman. Bochy threw away a playoff-clinching game. This team snd Chris Young should be furious with him for doing that.
South Platte said:gigem1223 said:South Platte said:
So we send Latz down after 2.1 and no runs but we refuse to give up on Chapman after countless horrible performances. His career is over. I don't understand why we keep him in a Texas uniform. He's the one guy that just doesn't fit into what we are trying to do here.
Because he's really good in a non-close situation. This boneheaded manager can't seem to understand that though.
I'm not trying to be a jackass to you, but non-save means we have a 4 run lead. Do you know how ridiculous it sounds to have a guy that specializes in late-game non-save situations? How often do you find yourself late in playoff games with comfortable leads?
Go look at his stats in the 8th inning. What I meant was non-save as in not in the 9th closing the game out. He's a great setup man, terrible closer.
Exactly. He's been pretty good in the 8th but horrible in the 9th. Unbelievable that random spares like us can see that but the mgr can't.
Mr Gigem said:
I'd like to see Eovaldi gives us 5/6 tonight, then Perez be ready to get us to/through the 9th. Is Leclerc available for the 9th if needed?
He's pitched back to back. Just like Chapman. They both won't pitch
On second day of a back-to-back this year, Chapman has pitched 9.1 innings He’s allowed nine earned runs on 10 hits and *15* walks.
— Jamey Newberg (@NewbergReport) September 29, 2023
CampingAg said:Me giving him a pass isn't insinuating he's been perfect. But calling for him to be fired or wanting him to retire is asinine. We've improved by 20 games from last year while having a historically bad bullpen.Proposition Joe said:CampingAg said:
I give Bochy a pass this year. There's never more than 1 or 2 arms he can trust, if any. And who those 1 or 2 are rotates on a weekly basis. It's a historically bad and inconsistent bullpen.
Ok, so logically if you can only trust 1 or 2... and you never know who those 2 are going to be night-in, night-out...
Then after one pitches well for the 7th, another for the 8th, why on earth would you go with a new one for the 9th?
Or pull starters that could still go another inning (not the case tonight, but at least a dozen nights this year).
Again, he's leaning into our biggest weakness. He has this desire to get everything clicking before the postseason... But we're on Game 159 with what is now the equivalent of a 1 game lead. Just win the ****ing game and worry about building confidence later. A confident bullpen sitting at home in October does you no good.
I agree he pulls pitchers too early at times. But we know his style now. So let's go clean it up in the offseason and get the arms to play to it. I don't think a 30-year manager who is known in the industry as a bullpen wizard doesn't just forget how to coach.
Eh, I'm not calling him to retire or wanting him fired, but I've been very up front about who he is as a manager since the hire. He's a 0.500 career lifetime manager. Sure there were some stinker teams in there, but overall he is a guy that is going to get his team as far as his roster. That's fine in the MLB.
Yes, this bullpen is more or less CY's fault (and the players naturally), but that doesn't absolve Bochy of any responsibility. We're seeing the exact same thing Game 158 that we saw in Game 58 -- he wants a 6/7/8/9 guy.
So he'll pull a starter at 80 pitches... Or he'll go away from a guy like Leclerc who is dealing to go with Chapman in the 9th. It's very much an attempt to get everyone in a groove come playoff time. But if 158 games into the season it is still costing you games, then it's a problem. If we're 8 games up right now? I'm all for it. Get these guys in a groove.
But the lead is now effectively 1 game. We're far past the point that sacrificing a game or two for the "greater good" is still worth it. Lean on who has got you here.
If this was a case of Heaney (the first guy out of the pen) looking bad, or even Leclerc... ok, you've got **** options not a lot you can do. But to get a guy in the bullpen to give you a good 7th? About time! A different guy to give you a good 8th? Wow!
Going with a new guy for the 9th? You keep spinning that wheel eventually you're gonna hit a whammy.
It's not Bochy's fault we don't have reliable arms in the bullpen, but it is Bochy's fault for continuing to think each of them will be reliable on any given night. This staff top to bottom should be "if you're pitching well, you're pitching until you run into significant trouble".
Instead it's been "if you're pitching well we're going to save you from getting into trouble by going to a bullpen arm that has a 70% chance of getting into trouble". It's just doing the same idiotic thing over and over.
And again, I get it... I hope come mid-October this bullpen is nails and everyone is lauding Bochy for being a mastermind and having confidence he could get these guys right even if it meant a game or ten was lost down the stretch.
But if you ask me if I'd rather win the division, get a first round bye, and roll with a shaky bullpen in the playoffs over potentially missing the playoffs entirely? That's an easy answer.
I'd like to see our bats put up 10 in the first inning! Let's make this easy on the pitching!Mr Gigem said:
I'd like to see Eovaldi gives us 5/6 tonight, then Perez be ready to get us to/through the 9th. Is Leclerc available for the 9th if needed?
Update after Thursday: All “Mariners win 0” rows removed.
— Cory Lieder (@AustinCory) September 29, 2023
There are now just 16 different ways the Astros/Arizona and Seattle/Texas series can go. 11 of them are good for Houston (2 division + 9 wild card). pic.twitter.com/TERzpt1wBf
Proposition Joe said:CampingAg said:Me giving him a pass isn't insinuating he's been perfect. But calling for him to be fired or wanting him to retire is asinine. We've improved by 20 games from last year while having a historically bad bullpen.Proposition Joe said:CampingAg said:
I give Bochy a pass this year. There's never more than 1 or 2 arms he can trust, if any. And who those 1 or 2 are rotates on a weekly basis. It's a historically bad and inconsistent bullpen.
Ok, so logically if you can only trust 1 or 2... and you never know who those 2 are going to be night-in, night-out...
Then after one pitches well for the 7th, another for the 8th, why on earth would you go with a new one for the 9th?
Or pull starters that could still go another inning (not the case tonight, but at least a dozen nights this year).
Again, he's leaning into our biggest weakness. He has this desire to get everything clicking before the postseason... But we're on Game 159 with what is now the equivalent of a 1 game lead. Just win the ****ing game and worry about building confidence later. A confident bullpen sitting at home in October does you no good.
I agree he pulls pitchers too early at times. But we know his style now. So let's go clean it up in the offseason and get the arms to play to it. I don't think a 30-year manager who is known in the industry as a bullpen wizard doesn't just forget how to coach.
Eh, I'm not calling him to retire or wanting him fired, but I've been very up front about who he is as a manager since the hire. He's a 0.500 career lifetime manager. Sure there were some stinker teams in there, but overall he is a guy that is going to get his team as far as his roster. That's fine in the MLB.
Yes, this bullpen is more or less CY's fault (and the players naturally), but that doesn't absolve Bochy of any responsibility. We're seeing the exact same thing Game 158 that we saw in Game 58 -- he wants a 6/7/8/9 guy.
So he'll pull a starter at 80 pitches... Or he'll go away from a guy like Leclerc who is dealing to go with Chapman in the 9th. It's very much an attempt to get everyone in a groove come playoff time. But if 158 games into the season it is still costing you games, then it's a problem. If we're 8 games up right now? I'm all for it. Get these guys in a groove.
But the lead is now effectively 1 game. We're far past the point that sacrificing a game or two for the "greater good" is still worth it. Lean on who has got you here.
If this was a case of Heaney (the first guy out of the pen) looking bad, or even Leclerc... ok, you've got **** options not a lot you can do. But to get a guy in the bullpen to give you a good 7th? About time! A different guy to give you a good 8th? Wow!
Going with a new guy for the 9th? You keep spinning that wheel eventually you're gonna hit a whammy.
It's not Bochy's fault we don't have reliable arms in the bullpen, but it is Bochy's fault for continuing to think each of them will be reliable on any given night. This staff top to bottom should be "if you're pitching well, you're pitching until you run into significant trouble".
Instead it's been "if you're pitching well we're going to save you from getting into trouble by going to a bullpen arm that has a 70% chance of getting into trouble". It's just doing the same idiotic thing over and over.
And again, I get it... I hope come mid-October this bullpen is nails and everyone is lauding Bochy for being a mastermind and having confidence he could get these guys right even if it meant a game or ten was lost down the stretch.
But if you ask me if I'd rather win the division, get a first round bye, and roll with a shaky bullpen in the playoffs over potentially missing the playoffs entirely? That's an easy answer.
All fair. I should have clarified and said I don't want him fired, rather than I'm "giving him a pass".
Yeah, I'm not gonna be upset if he's back next year but also won't be upset if it's someone new.
Ultimately the blame lies player -> bochy -> cyoung
CY should have given Bochy better options.
Bochy should be better about the options he does have.
The players shouldn't suck.
Ultimately the blame lies player -> bochy -> cyoung
CY should have given Bochy better options.
Bochy should be better about the options he does have.
The players shouldn't suck.
"He'll pull a starter at 80 pitches... Or he'll go away from a guy like Leclerc who is dealing to go with Chapman in the 9th. It's very much an attempt to get everyone in a groove come playoff time. But if 158 games into the season it is still costing you games, then it's a problem. If we're 8 games up right now? I'm all for it. Get these guys in a groove."
Seems like he's established more of a rut than a groove and much like a hole, it only gets deeper the more you dig
Seems like he's established more of a rut than a groove and much like a hole, it only gets deeper the more you dig
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nvm
That was bull**** all around.
It's on Chapman for blowing it and more on the team for scoring 2 ****ing runs in that environment with the postseason on the line.
It's on Chapman for blowing it and more on the team for scoring 2 ****ing runs in that environment with the postseason on the line.
I guess it has to be like this. Nothing has been easy this year. All 3 AL West teams have taken their turn at the top and hit losing streaks. No choking going on, all 3 are obviously flawed and have fought their way to the final weekend.
Toronto starts us off tonight, so hopefully they get down big early. Houston and Toronto both losing tonight makes me feel a ton better, even if Eovaldi gets pounded.
I hate losing our way to the playoffs or a division title. Just one more win.
Toronto starts us off tonight, so hopefully they get down big early. Houston and Toronto both losing tonight makes me feel a ton better, even if Eovaldi gets pounded.
I hate losing our way to the playoffs or a division title. Just one more win.
It's like that GIF they made before the 2017 A&M football season of Hubenak/Starkel/Mond rotating in practice to be all like "who will be the starter?"South Platte said:
I guess it has to be like this. Nothing has been easy this year. All 3 AL West teams have taken their turn at the top and hit losing streaks. No choking going on, all 3 are obviously flawed and have fought their way to the final weekend.
Toronto starts us off tonight, so hopefully they get down big early. Houston and Toronto both losing tonight makes me feel a ton better, even if Eovaldi gets pounded.
I hate losing our way to the playoffs or a division title. Just one more win.
So we clinch a wildcard with a win tonight.
We clinch the division with a win and a Houston loss tonight.
We clinch the division with a win and a Houston loss tonight.
Right. I mean it's just this easy. But so is not blowing 35 save opportunities a year.Legal Custodian said:
So we clinch a wildcard with a win tonight.
We clinch the division with a win and a Houston loss tonight.
It could all be wrapped up tonight if we bring the bats to the ballpark and Eovaldi pitches like he has most of the season.
A rangers win / Diamondbacks win gets it done.
A rangers win / Diamondbacks win gets it done.
Legal Custodian said:
So we clinch a wildcard with a win tonight.
We clinch the division with a win and a Houston loss tonight.
And then we throw the last 2 so Houston is eliminated.
FriscoKid said:Legal Custodian said:
So we clinch a wildcard with a win tonight.
We clinch the division with a win and a Houston loss tonight.
And then we throw the last 2 so Houston is eliminated.
A look at tomorrow's probables:@Rangers | #StraightUpTX pic.twitter.com/QfN5QpAsmv
— Bally Sports Southwest (@BallySportsSW) September 29, 2023
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