*****Official Texas Rangers 2023 Season Thread***** [Staff Warning]

2,387,681 Views | 40589 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by LeagueCityAg
Grapesoda2525
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Just something I was thinking about on an off day.

I think this offseason it would make sense to go after Kershaw. He has stated that he would only play for the Dodgers or the Rangers. He's been signing 1 year contracts the last few years.

We have shown the league that we have a ton of good young position players and a top notch offense. Imagine a top or the rotation that has Degrom, Kershaw, and Eovaldi.
Proposition Joe
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Mr Gigem said:

That's what was written. Hopefully part of it was the Rangers telling Dad to back the **** off.

If I'm the Dad of a premier young arm and he's drafted into the Rangers organization, in no way do I just "trust" what they are advising.

Tampa? Sure.

Texas? Hell no.
Quincey P. Morris
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AG
It's generally not going to be a good policy to contradict the coaching staff. And frankly, in this instance, if that's what happened behind the scenes and now he's doing well, then it's pretty evident that he was causing a problem.
BCSWguru
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Proposition Joe said:

Mr Gigem said:

That's what was written. Hopefully part of it was the Rangers telling Dad to back the **** off.

If I'm the Dad of a premier young arm and he's drafted into the Rangers organization, in no way do I just "trust" what they are advising.

Tampa? Sure.

Texas? Hell no.
LOL. You'd have yourself a career minor leaguer son.
rbtexan
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S
Proposition Joe said:

Mr Gigem said:

That's what was written. Hopefully part of it was the Rangers telling Dad to back the **** off.

If I'm the Dad of a premier young arm and he's drafted into the Rangers organization, in no way do I just "trust" what they are advising.

Tampa? Sure.

Texas? Hell no.
A little historical context for the purposes of this discussion.

Leading up to the draft, there was a lot of talk that Leiter wouldn't sign if drafted, because (if memory serves) he wanted to play for the Yankees or Red Sox. The Rangers had to go through a significant vetting process with the Leiter family before they gave the thumbs up and said effectively "Ok, if you draft Jack he'll sign".

Apparently the Rangers organization, probably CY specifically, was convincing enough with their plan for Jack that they were comfortable with it.

What has happened since, from the scuttlebutt I've heard, is that Al Leiter has acted as some sort of behind the scenes pitching coach, backseating driving and undermining the development plan & coaching they agreed to prior to the draft and again prior to Jack signing.

I don't give a flying sh*t who you are, as a parent in this situation you need to stay the hell out of it. It's not your role, and it's not your responsibility. Jack Leiter is a grown a$$ man and Al needs to quit being a helicopter dad.

* disclaimer to all this being it was written with the assumption that the rumors about Al interfering are true *
Jimbo Franchione
Tksymm7
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I don't know specifically what Jack has done one way or the other. Stop listening to his dad? I hope so to some extent? Listen to Mike Maddux and the Rangers pitching coaches? I sure hope so. But after listening to Diamond Pod from some the of Ticket guys, they don't think he's necessarily locating his fastball better (although I do, slightly), but they think he's simply pitching with a different mindset and has broken out a nasty curveball. They said that he's attacking with his fastball early in counts (a fastball that is 97-99) and then killing people with his curve. He's still leaving the ball arm side up some and piping a few fastballs, but he's being aggressive and getting ahead in counts.
Proposition Joe
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Quincey P. Morris said:

It's generally not going to be a good policy to contradict the coaching staff. And frankly, in this instance, if that's what happened behind the scenes and now he's doing well, then it's pretty evident that he was causing a problem.

I agree with you, I'm simply stating that the Texas Rangers history of developing young arms is historically the bottom of the league. It's not shocking that a stud young arm with a damn good 20 year career in the big leagues is going to have a lot of input on what he should be doing.
beagle2009
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Proposition Joe said:

Quincey P. Morris said:

It's generally not going to be a good policy to contradict the coaching staff. And frankly, in this instance, if that's what happened behind the scenes and now he's doing well, then it's pretty evident that he was causing a problem.

I agree with you, I'm simply stating that the Texas Rangers history of developing young arms is historically the bottom of the league. It's not shocking that a stud young arm with a damn good 20 year career in the big leagues is going to have a lot of input on what he should be doing.

This is a bad take. There are plenty examples of pitchers that the Rangers have developed in recent history. Derek Holland, Colby Lewis, Matt Harrison, CJ Wilson to name a few off the top of my head.
rbtexan
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In fairness, a couple of those guys the Rangers didn't really "develop". Matt Harrison was pretty much a finished product acquired from the Braves, and Colby Lewis went to Japan and got his stuff figured out. They absolutely have developed some good pitchers, but have had an annoying tendency to trade away the good ones, in addition to signing some who have been colossal busts (Dillon Tate).
Jimbo Franchione
beagle2009
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Good point on Harrison. I was thinking he came to us much younger. But in general I would still credit the organization for sticking with guys like Lewis (who they did draft) regardless of the path he followed. Dude ended up being one of the best post season arms we've ever had. I think it's unrealistic to expect every young arm to fully develop through the traditional farm system/progression.
Proposition Joe
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This is the list of above average starting pitching that Texas actually developed in their system and who produced in Texas over the last 30 years:















CJ Wilson*










*Had to ASK Texas to let him get a shot as a starter. The organization had him as a bullpen arm.

Again, I'm not saying Al sticking his nose into his kid's development is a good thing -- but this is an organization that is one of the worst in baseball at developing starters so it's not surprising he's keeping a close eye on things.
rocky_ag
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beagle2009 said:

Proposition Joe said:

Quincey P. Morris said:

It's generally not going to be a good policy to contradict the coaching staff. And frankly, in this instance, if that's what happened behind the scenes and now he's doing well, then it's pretty evident that he was causing a problem.

I agree with you, I'm simply stating that the Texas Rangers history of developing young arms is historically the bottom of the league. It's not shocking that a stud young arm with a damn good 20 year career in the big leagues is going to have a lot of input on what he should be doing.

This is a bad take. There are plenty examples of pitchers that the Rangers have developed in recent history. Derek Holland, Colby Lewis, Matt Harrison, CJ Wilson to name a few off the top of my head.
I think you have the bad take. No offense to those guys, but if those are the pitchers we are touting as successful developments by the Rangers system... that says a lot. I'll give you CJ Wilson. He is by far the best one you named. But Harrison should not even be on that list. He did the majority of his development with the Braves.

The other two had some decent years but overall, were average starters at best. Between Holland and Lewis, they had a combined 4 seasons of starting 20 or more games and posting an ERA less than 4.00. The two had a combined career WAR of just 18. For perspective, CJ Wilson had a career WAR of 17.3 on his own. A career top of the line pitcher like Justin Verlander has a career WAR of 78 on his own. Neither Holland or Lewis were bad pitchers, but that fact that they're even in the discussion as the best development jobs by the Rangers is sad.

On top of all of that, all of those guys debuted 14+ years ago.
Proposition Joe
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Yup... Perez is about the only guy other than Wilson you could make a decent case for.
Quincey P. Morris
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Proposition Joe said:

Quincey P. Morris said:

It's generally not going to be a good policy to contradict the coaching staff. And frankly, in this instance, if that's what happened behind the scenes and now he's doing well, then it's pretty evident that he was causing a problem.

I agree with you, I'm simply stating that the Texas Rangers history of developing young arms is historically the bottom of the league. It's not shocking that a stud young arm with a damn good 20 year career in the big leagues is going to have a lot of input on what he should be doing.


Having something to say or giving some input isn't what sounds like was going on. I'd certainly expect him to have an opinion, but it sounds like that crossed into causing a problem.
rbtexan
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S
I think there has certainly been an inability to develop starting pitching, but it's a fair argument to be made that the Rangers' draft strategy/scouting has been just horrible over the past 15-20 years, and they simply haven't had great arms to develop.

I'm not sure who or what lit a fire under Kip Fa gg, but the drafts have finally started to at least make some sense.
Jimbo Franchione
beagle2009
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Fair enough. My whole point was in response to the notion that an unproven prospect can essentially ignore the pitching staffs guidance because the organization has a history of bad pitching. I don't think it's fair to say the Rangers have essentially never developed a young pitcher, but you are right in which they've unquestionably been below other organizations. I also think the recent organizational moves with CY and Maddux show the club is committed to improving the pitching overall, so past failure should not hold much stock IMO.
Grapesoda2525
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Garden gnome is returning to the Astros tonight.
DeangeloVickers
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Go get Arnold's Chapman and if Liam Hendricks looks.good get him too!
Mr Gigem
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Every team and their dog will be going after those guys. Going to cost A LOT
Proposition Joe
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beagle2009 said:

Fair enough. My whole point was in response to the notion that an unproven prospect can essentially ignore the pitching staffs guidance because the organization has a history of bad pitching. I don't think it's fair to say the Rangers have essentially never developed a young pitcher, but you are right in which they've unquestionably been below other organizations. I also think the recent organizational moves with CY and Maddux show the club is committed to improving the pitching overall, so past failure should not hold much stock IMO.

Nobody said that an unproven prospect can ignore the pitching staff's guidance -- simply that it's not a surprise that an all-star father might be sticking his nose into his future all-star son's development for a team that has historically not been able to develop anyone.

And I like Maddux, but fans tend to fall victim to a bias of hearing their own announcers or national broadcast sing the praises of coaches and assume that must be a similar view the entire sport holds. He's a solid coach, but two different teams have decided to part ways with him (Rangers the first go-round and Nationals). He's not some storied coach.
Tksymm7
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You see how the Cardinals pitching staff is faring without him? I agree he's not Brent Strom, but he's a very solid pitching coach and the best one we've had in a while.
beagle2009
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Nobody said Maddux is a storied coach, but there is no denying he is a significant upgrade to the staff compared to the last few seasons. Bringing him back is a clear sign that pitching is a priority, just like it was back when Nolan brought him in the first time. The Rangers had their best overall pitching in the history of the franchise under Maddox, and I believe the Nats and Cards made the playoffs every year he was with those clubs. The Cards offered him an extension but he declined. Put some respect on this man's name!!
Grapesoda2525
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Per EG

Quote:

From Evan Grant:

And before he left town, Acuña, who you could argue is the best player in baseball at the moment, dropped one other bombshell of the auditory variety that ought to be of special note to Rangers fans.

"My brother," he said through an interpreter of Rangers prospect Luisangel Acuña, "is more advanced and better than I was at his age. Maybe I was as talented, but not as advanced."

Which is good copy, for sure. Perhaps also a little hyperbole. Or brotherly pride. Maybe both. The Rangers' reaction is basically: Pray Big Brother is right, but also that it might be a little unfair to compare any prospect to one of, if not the best player in the game. It is also a nice little temporary distraction because our other option for a missive was: "What's up with the bleeping bullpen, Take 9?"

So, about Luisangel, who is at Double-A Frisco: He is 21, four years younger than Ronald, and the youngest player on the Rangers' 40-man roster. It speaks to his precocious talent, but also to where his brother might be employing a hint of hyperbole. At 21, Ronald was already the NL Rookie of the Year and on his way to his first All-Star Game.

"It's hard not to dream about [his brother], but I don't think it's fair to make those comparisons," Rangers general manager Chris Young said. "We'd love for him to turn into that, but they are different people and different players. We're excited about the player."


Truth is the comps to Ronald are fewer now than could have been the case. Luisangel was going to follow in his brother's footsteps, having agreed to a deal with Atlanta in 2018 before the Braves' penalties for international scouting and signing violations were announced. It made Luisangel a free agent again. The Rangers swept in.

Luisangel, a shortstop and the No. 3 ranked Rangers' prospect according to MLB Pipeline, is tearing up the Texas League. And dare we say it: For now, he's outperforming top prospect Evan Carter with an .837 to .815 OPS. Carter has been in a bit of a slump of late. Acuña is fourth in the Texas League in hitting (.318) and second in stolen bases (16). He has not been caught stealing.

It comes on the heels of a late-season promotion from advanced Class A Hickory last year. He struggled over the final month as a 20-year-old but has come back with a vengeance. He's also upped his play at shortstop, perhaps quelling any thoughts that, like his brother, he might function best as an outfielder.


Though the two spend considerable time together during the offseason, Ronald doesn't say much about what he's told his younger brother, only that he's encouraged him to keep "doing what he's been doing," and that "it's been a joy to watch him develop."

The Rangers can agree with the latter point.

"He is more comfortable and confident," said minor league field coordinator Kenny Holmberg. "It's led to high-caliber shortstop play. Like Ezequiel Durn, he's a baseball player and can do whatever is asked of him.

"And he does it with passion. You can see that in the way he plays. That's what you look for. I wasn't sold [on the shortstop play], but he's made me a believer. He's been impressive."

All of which brings us back to the topic of the day: the bullpen. Everybody in the organization from scouts to ownership recognizes that the bullpen is the big league team's biggest flaw. It is a need that must be addressed. It may require more than one piece to fix.

That's code for the Rangers are going to have to offer something in a trade. With Corey Seager settled at short for most of the next decade, the position is seemingly one from which the Rangers could peel off some talent to help other areas of the team. With their performances this year, all Durn and Acuña have done is increase their value. Whether that's to the Rangers or in trade capital remains to be determined.

But it certainly can't hurt his value to have one of the best players in the game provide a titillating tease about his talent. Even if that player is his older brother
DeangeloVickers
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Grapesoda2525
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I don't like the thought of trading Acuna, Duran, or Carter.

I know you have to give up quality to get quality, but there should be some prospects that you keep or are just off the table.
rbtexan
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S
Agree completely. I would rather see the Rangers package more players in a package than give up any of those three. Some guys like Foscue, Crim, and probably Dustin Harris don't have a legit shot in the near future on the Rangers roster. Package a bunch of those players, even if its 5 or 6 of them.
Jimbo Franchione
Grapesoda2525
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rbtexan said:

Agree completely. I would rather see the Rangers package more players in a package than give up any of those three. Some guys like Foscue, Crim, and probably Dustin Harris don't have a legit shot in the near future on the Rangers roster. Package a bunch of those players, even if its 5 or 6 of them.
Foscue is pretty good and he is blocked. Huff too?

I wouldn't mind trading either one of those.
Grapesoda2525
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DeangeloVickers said:


Duran hitting 8th?

The lineup is an embarrassment of riches. I still think our best lineup might be Jankowski over grossman tho. I know jank is hurt at the moment.
rbtexan
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Absolutely yes on Huff. I'm not a believer, I don't think he'll ever make enough contact - think Joey Gallo in catching gear.
There's some pitchers I'd let go of too, honestly. Cole Winn, Bradford, Ryan Garcia. Again, for the right deal.
Jimbo Franchione
gigem1223
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Good news on deGrom. Says he feels good after his 25 pitch session.
gigem1223
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Rockies coming in playing well after a terrible start. 10-5 in May. The Rangers better bring their A game and not come out flat.
CampingAg
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AG
City connect jerseys with military appreciation hats are an abomination. What are we doing.
Water Boy
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AG
Would be nice to score some runs early in the game.
AgBQ-00
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gigem1223
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Good to see Perez pitching well. Bats need to wake up. This dude is not that good.
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