If the health reports check out, I'd be all for a reasonable trade for Verlander assuming the owners can open up the pocket books.

$43M next year is not a big deal, its just the player option for a then (42?) year old Verlander in '25 gets a little ugly... but at 140 IP min in 2024 your only big risk is if he happens to get injured in the last few months of 2024.

I don't love that he's a crapshoot in the playoffs, but he's better than anything we have right now.

But in order to make it work you basically have to have ownership that's willing to absorb a loss on him if he gets hurt rather than use it as a reason we can't spend any more money.

Absolutely no dice on Porter, he's my #2 untouchable behind Carter. But could you imagine a rotation of Eovaldi, JV, Grey, Dunning, and Heaney next year? With 70% DeGrom possibly coming back in the back half of the season. It would by more time for White and Porter to keep developing.

They did the same thing when they signed DeGrom lol

Let's get some honesty in the context.

I touted Perez as a #2, 10 years ago when he had established his 1st full season as a SP at age 22. He was being compared to Johan Santana and I had started following Perez when he was in Spokane of the PWL. When he was there, he was the 2nd youngest player (age 17) to have appeared in the league. 2nd to King Felix. The PWL was a short-season Fall league where college players drafted in June go to play for their new team. Mostly 22-23 year olds. So, his #2 status is not unfounded.

In 3 years (age 22-24) he went 42 GS and a 4.03 ERA in MLB.

Age 22-24, Lynn combined for 66 GS from A+, AA, AAA. He got 34.2 IP at age 24 to break into the majors mostly in RP.

So, somewhere along the way... maybe the Rangers rushed him... maybe he got sidetracked with other stuff (all documented). Regardless he never became the SP most had hoped.


Now, how can you use the term "sample size" with a straight face?!

What is more relevant...

Lynn with a 4.12 ERA over the past 3 years? OR... 12 yrs of Lynn at 3.69, who pitched 3.37 ERA from age 24-28, 8 years ago?!


Perez with a 3.90 ERA over the past 3 years? OR... 12 yrs of Perez at 4.47, who pitched a 5.45 ERA at 21, 12 years ago?!


Lynn (36) has a 5.06 ERA in 41 GS over the past 2 years.
Perez (32) has a 3.58 ERA in 51 GS over the past 2 years (age 31-32)

You say... "Go for the old guy despite his terrible performance, because 7-8 years ago he had a couple good seasons."

Alright, I've come to grips with my grumpy post last night, and want to apologize to all Rangers fans on this thread for it.

I will not say I have turned over a new leaf, but positive vibes the rest of this season. I have to remember this team is an unfinished product, and is likely ahead of schedule even though they have doled out a significant sum of money the past two offseasons.

Here's to the Rangers learning to fight and getting to the playoffs this season, and hopefully on their way to winning the ultimate prize within the next season or two.

Martin Perez has a career ERA of 4.47.

Lance Lynn has had 1 full season in his entire 13 year career with an ERA higher than that.

We know the type of pitcher Lance Lynn is. The question is whether he can still pitch at his career averages.

We know the type of pitcher Martin Perez is. The question is whether or not he can pitch well above his career averages.


It's called confirmation bias. You saw Perez long ago and convinced yourself he was a legitimate TORP pitcher. So every year you find some outside influence that explains why he's not a TORP pitcher. Whether it's pitching coach, mechanics, developing a new pitch, etc... You jump through hoops for 10 years rather than just acknowledge that the guy isn't what you thought he was.

If I understand the Option year... If he doesn't pitch 140 IP, then the Option dies. If he reaches 140IP in 2024, then JV would have an Option to accept the 2025 $35M, or decline it.

The point is, if JV pitches well enough to reach 140 IP in 2024, he has the ability to add $35M in 2025, if he wants. Otherwise, if he doesn't reach 140 IP, the go their own way.

Is that how you understand it?

i do not believe it is committed in 2025 and turns to a PO if he reaches 140 IP.

So, assuming it Vests... we'll have gotten a pretty good year out of him in 2024.

AggieRob93 said:

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Alright, I've come to grips with my grumpy post last night, and want to apologize to all Rangers fans on this thread for it.

I will not say I have turned over a new leaf, but positive vibes the rest of this season. I have to remember this team is an unfinished product, and is likely ahead of schedule even though they have doled out a significant sum of money the past two offseasons.

Here's to the Rangers learning to fight and getting to the playoffs this season, and hopefully on their way to winning the ultimate prize within the next season or two.

---

Stage 1: Acceptance.
Stage 2: Win WS.
Stage 3: Repeat.

I want to say if he hits the 140, it automatically kicks in no matter what.

Coming into this season, we all would've been stoked if we got a wildcard. Even if we lose tonight, we can still win the division. Heck….I think this team is too good and the remaining schedule is too weak for us not to at least get a wild card.

A loss tonight isn't the end of the world. It would be embarrassing and a massive kick in the nuts tho. We really needed to win Monday with Eovaldi missing his start on Tuesday. Now it all relies on hean dog. I hope we see good Heaney tonight or this could get depressing in a hurry.

We have never needed a win more this season than we do tonight. Hopefully the boys are ready.

DallasAg 94 said:

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If I understand the Option year... If he doesn't pitch 140 IP, then the Option dies. If he reaches 140IP in 2024, then JV would have an Option to accept the 2025 $35M, or decline it.

The point is, if JV pitches well enough to reach 140 IP in 2024, he has the ability to add $35M in 2025, if he wants. Otherwise, if he doesn't reach 140 IP, the go their own way.

Is that how you understand it?

i do not believe it is committed in 2025 and turns to a PO if he reaches 140 IP.

So, assuming it Vests... we'll have gotten a pretty good year out of him in 2024.

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Yes, that is how it is structured - it's a player option at 140. Point is from a Rangers standpoint the only real risk is if he reaches the threshold in 2024 but then is injured. You can stomach $35M for a guy like Verlander in 2025 even if he does regress to a 4ER starter in age. Will be vastly overpaid, but still fills a slot in the rotation.

But not sure you can handle paying for an injured Verlander AND a oft-injured deGrom.

And really the only scenario in which Verlander is healthy but walks is if he's still dealing in 2024 and thinks he can land one more high $$$ multi-year deal in 2025+. I don't think that's super-likely at his age, but if it is then I don't think the Rangers will be crushed to have the contract end.

Proposition Joe said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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Still just need 1 to feel good about this stretch of games. If Heaney shoves tonight and the bats come alive and we're still in decent shape.

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HOLY *****

Common Ground.

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inb4

"Texas should actually be favored in this matchup because Heaney is 4-0 with a 3.4 ERA away from home on Wednesdays and since he made the shift from starting his windup on the left side of the rubber to the right side of the rubber he is now an elite pitcher."

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So the announcer from Little Big League?

MrCoachEricTaylor said:

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I want to say if he hits the 140, it automatically kicks in no matter what.

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No, player option at 140.

< 140: contract ends
> 140: Verlander can exercise the 2025 option or end the contract

Thanks. The wording on your other post made me think we differed in our understanding.

Thanks for the clarity.

2 times : 1 day.

AggieRob93 said:

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Alright, I've come to grips with my grumpy post last night, and want to apologize to all Rangers fans on this thread for it.

I will not say I have turned over a new leaf, but positive vibes the rest of this season. I have to remember this team is an unfinished product, and is likely ahead of schedule even though they have doled out a significant sum of money the past two offseasons.

Here's to the Rangers learning to fight and getting to the playoffs this season, and hopefully on their way to winning the ultimate prize within the next season or two.

---

Now we win the whole effing thing!

I think another positive that could be had if we were to get JV is how much it would help the BP. He's almost guaranteed to pitch 6-7+ innings an outing.. that's a lot of added rest for the BP to go along with Eovaldi being able to do the same.

And I'm certainly not one to think it matters that much, but you'd also get a guy in the clubhouse with a whole lot of high stakes playoff experience to compliment Seager on the offensive side.

I'd prefer Scherzer over verlander. JV has the Astros taint all over him.

Proposition Joe said:

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MrCoachEricTaylor said:

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I want to say if he hits the 140, it automatically kicks in no matter what.

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No, player option at 140.

< 140: contract ends
> 140: Verlander can exercise the 2025 option or end the contract

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Where are you seeing it's a player option at 140IP? All the reporting from then just referred to it as a vesting option.

JV has been elite for about a month now with a 2.25 era. Scherzer is struggling. Give me JV all day.

aggietony2010 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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MrCoachEricTaylor said:

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I want to say if he hits the 140, it automatically kicks in no matter what.

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No, player option at 140.

< 140: contract ends
> 140: Verlander can exercise the 2025 option or end the contract

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Where are you seeing it's a player option at 140IP? All the reporting from then just referred to it as a vesting option.

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Cot's Baseball Contracts (which is usually pretty accurate). Last time he had a vesting option was 2020 with Houston. His last two ('23 with Houston and '25 with NYM) are/were both conditional player options.

• 23:$43,333,333, 24:$43,333,333, 25: conditional player option, triggered at $35M if Verlander pitches 140 innings in 2024 and an independent physical exam determines he does not have a right arm injury that would prevent him from being on the active roster for Opening Day 2025

Evan Carter is 2-2 today and just hit a 2 out grand slam

Sure wouldn't mind seeing Carter or at least Foscue (if he's still here) come September. Just don't love Garver.

investorAg83 said:

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I know we've gotten hell for our SoS throughout the season but something to reflect on this back half of the season…we're almost completely done with facing the entire AL east minus another series with Boston and Toronto. NYY are 5 games over .500 and are in last place. Woof.

The Astros haven't played Baltimore yet. Or the Yankees. Or the Red Sox. And they still have another series with Tampa. They've only played 10 games vs the east thus far and have a little over 20 left.

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Yeah and the series with Boston is at home for us. It's like pulling teeth to win a series in an AL east park.

Curious what the plan is with White? They called him up and we were told we'd see him in the Astros series. Now that the bullpen is rested do we see him tonight? I would think the only way we do is if Heaney has a short outing.

Maybe there's a not so fun announcement coming on Eovaldi

Don't you put that on me Ricky Bobby!!

Yeah skipping a start vs. your closest division competition doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.

Mr Gigem said:

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Maybe there's a not so fun announcement coming on Eovaldi

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Don't say that... You're going to have Prop Joe begging for a playoff rotation that included Eovaldi.