***Official Houston Astros 2022-23 Offseason Thread***

1,070,352 Views | 12340 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Beat40
Ag4life80
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The Porkchop Express said:

And now it's just 24 days until opening day, and it's sort of weird that #24 didn't get retired until 2005 since Jimmy Wynn wore it from 1964 to 1973. JW passed away in March 2020. Much like Jose Altuve, he did a lot with a small frame. he was just 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighed 160 pounds, giving him the name the Toy Cannon. He was drafted away from the Reds by the Colt 45s in the 1962 expansion draft.

Although he wound up in the OF, he debuted in 1963 at shortstop and was 1 for 4 with a steal. His first full year was 1965, the first year of the Astros and the dome and he played 157 games, scored 90 runs, hit 22 homers, stole 43 bases - a career high by leaps and bounds, and drove in 73.
In 1967, he set a team record that stood for 27 year by blasting 37 homers, drove in 107 runs. Two years later, he had 33 homers and led the league with 148 walks, enjoying a career best .943 OPS (.436 OBP / .507 slug). The walks record would stand for 30 years until Bagwell broke it by 1 in 1999.

Wynn was the first man to hit a home run into the upper deck of the Astrodome, doing so against Phil Niekro in 1970. This is a really cool photo of artist Oscar Torres painting the seat.




That wasn't the most memorable part of his year, unfortunately. While Cesar Cedeno was a couple of years away from probably killing his mistress, Wynn almost got killed by his own wife, who decided to stab him during an argument one 1970 December morning, as people sometimes do. According to an old news article, she got him on the left side of his abdomen with a 4-inch steak night and he was hospitalized for a week. The article also has this fantastic paragraph:

Patrolman J. A. Fortenberry said the stabbing was a result of a family quarrel and that Wynn brandished an unloaded shotgun. "She stabbed him in the left side about halfway be tween the navel and the side. He refused to file charges, say ing it was his fault," Forten berry said.

In 1973, the Astros decided to be as stupid as possible and trade him to the Dodgers for Claude Osteen (only slightly better than Joel Osteen) and David Culpepper. Osteen went 9-9 and then got traded to the Cardinals. Culpepper was a fire-ball releiver in the minors for the Dodgers, but he never made it past Triple A for the Astros.

Wynn went to the Dodgers in 1974 and had 32 HR, 108 RBI, and a huge season got to the World Series where the Dodgers lost to the A's. He was later traded to the Braves for you guessed it, Dusty Baker.

A bunch of not great players went on to wear #24, including Ty Gainey, Omar "Yes, I do like drugs" Moreno, Franklin Stubbs, and Orlando Miller, who I constantly have to remind myself, was not the same person as Ricky Guiterrez. Finally Jason Lane came along and sold his soul for that really great 2005 season in which he
hit 26 HR, drove in 78 and hit .267 in 145 games for a World Series team, then saw his average drop 66 points the next year. Does anyone find it really odd that the '05 team had these two huge power sources in Lane and Morgan Ensberg (36 HR, 101 RBI) who basically had vanished off the face of the Earth 1-2 years later?





EastCoastAgNc
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Ag4life80
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My favorite uniform of all. Double knits with beltless waistband
Harry Dunne
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McInnis said:

spadilly said:

Perfect timing! I just got this brand new off of eBay and it came in yesterday!



Does anyone else wish the Astros would break those out for a throwback game? I don't think they ever have, have they?




I think this is the closest they've gotten.

Harry Dunne
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IDK if they ever wore this for a game or if it was just a promo photoshoot...

cc10106
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I wish they would have more made. Not sure what the deal is considering it's one of the best Astros unis ever and would sell quickly.
McInnis
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I think that's the ones the Astros first wore when they moved into the dome. The Wynn jersey had ASTROS in orange lettering and they used orange caps with them. Isn't that right?
McInnis
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The one Cammi is wearing is the one. I know this won't be a common opinion here but when the Astros replaced them with the rainbows it kind of made me sick.
Harry Dunne
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I agree but it gets so little run you forget about it.

It's a great uniform, but I never saw them play in it so there is no nostalgia there for me. I'm a tequila shoulders guy all the way. I know it's not our best uniform, but that's my childhood uni and the one I feel most attached to.
McInnis
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Harry Dunne said:

I know it's not our best uniform,
But it's reached cult status over the years.
Lonestar_Ag09
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Harry Dunne said:

I agree but it gets so little run you forget about it.

It's a great uniform, but I never saw them play in it so there is no nostalgia there for me. I'm a tequila shoulders guy all the way. I know it's not our best uniform, but that's my childhood uni and the one I feel most attached to.
I like rainbow shoulders as well, especially the blue jersey
malenurse
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Ag4life80 said:

The Porkchop Express said:

And now it's just 24 days until opening day, and it's sort of weird that #24 didn't get retired until 2005 since Jimmy Wynn wore it from 1964 to 1973. JW passed away in March 2020. Much like Jose Altuve, he did a lot with a small frame. he was just 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighed 160 pounds, giving him the name the Toy Cannon. He was drafted away from the Reds by the Colt 45s in the 1962 expansion draft.

Although he wound up in the OF, he debuted in 1963 at shortstop and was 1 for 4 with a steal. His first full year was 1965, the first year of the Astros and the dome and he played 157 games, scored 90 runs, hit 22 homers, stole 43 bases - a career high by leaps and bounds, and drove in 73.
In 1967, he set a team record that stood for 27 year by blasting 37 homers, drove in 107 runs. Two years later, he had 33 homers and led the league with 148 walks, enjoying a career best .943 OPS (.436 OBP / .507 slug). The walks record would stand for 30 years until Bagwell broke it by 1 in 1999.

Wynn was the first man to hit a home run into the upper deck of the Astrodome, doing so against Phil Niekro in 1970. This is a really cool photo of artist Oscar Torres painting the seat.




That wasn't the most memorable part of his year, unfortunately. While Cesar Cedeno was a couple of years away from probably killing his mistress, Wynn almost got killed by his own wife, who decided to stab him during an argument one 1970 December morning, as people sometimes do. According to an old news article, she got him on the left side of his abdomen with a 4-inch steak night and he was hospitalized for a week. The article also has this fantastic paragraph:

Patrolman J. A. Fortenberry said the stabbing was a result of a family quarrel and that Wynn brandished an unloaded shotgun. "She stabbed him in the left side about halfway be tween the navel and the side. He refused to file charges, say ing it was his fault," Forten berry said.

In 1973, the Astros decided to be as stupid as possible and trade him to the Dodgers for Claude Osteen (only slightly better than Joel Osteen) and David Culpepper. Osteen went 9-9 and then got traded to the Cardinals. Culpepper was a fire-ball releiver in the minors for the Dodgers, but he never made it past Triple A for the Astros.

Wynn went to the Dodgers in 1974 and had 32 HR, 108 RBI, and a huge season got to the World Series where the Dodgers lost to the A's. He was later traded to the Braves for you guessed it, Dusty Baker.

A bunch of not great players went on to wear #24, including Ty Gainey, Omar "Yes, I do like drugs" Moreno, Franklin Stubbs, and Orlando Miller, who I constantly have to remind myself, was not the same person as Ricky Guiterrez. Finally Jason Lane came along and sold his soul for that really great 2005 season in which he
hit 26 HR, drove in 78 and hit .267 in 145 games for a World Series team, then saw his average drop 66 points the next year. Does anyone find it really odd that the '05 team had these two huge power sources in Lane and Morgan Ensberg (36 HR, 101 RBI) who basically had vanished off the face of the Earth 1-2 years later?






As a young boy, one of the most vivid memories of Astros games was waiting for the inevitable "BOOM" that would come from the dugout after JW would strike out. Wynn would strike out, stomp angrily into the dugout and them 3 seconds later you could hear Wynn slam his bat into the batrack.
The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But, it's still on the list.
Harry Dunne
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Lonestar_Ag09 said:

Harry Dunne said:

I agree but it gets so little run you forget about it.

It's a great uniform, but I never saw them play in it so there is no nostalgia there for me. I'm a tequila shoulders guy all the way. I know it's not our best uniform, but that's my childhood uni and the one I feel most attached to.
I like rainbow shoulders as well, especially the blue jersey


Yep. That's the one.
The Porkchop Express
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Harry Dunne said:

Lonestar_Ag09 said:

Harry Dunne said:

I agree but it gets so little run you forget about it.

It's a great uniform, but I never saw them play in it so there is no nostalgia there for me. I'm a tequila shoulders guy all the way. I know it's not our best uniform, but that's my childhood uni and the one I feel most attached to.
I like rainbow shoulders as well, especially the blue jersey


Yep. That's the one.
Look at that roid rage on his face. Burns me up just thinking about it.
Life is better with a beagle
carpediem13
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Probably gold jersey related, but I'll hold out hope for a tucker extension
spadilly
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S
Harry Dunne said:

Lonestar_Ag09 said:

Harry Dunne said:

I agree but it gets so little run you forget about it.

It's a great uniform, but I never saw them play in it so there is no nostalgia there for me. I'm a tequila shoulders guy all the way. I know it's not our best uniform, but that's my childhood uni and the one I feel most attached to.
I like rainbow shoulders as well, especially the blue jersey


Yep. That's the one.



Were these ever worn in a regular season game? I remember seeing them for batting practice (and maybe spring training?) and for marketing/baseball cards, but I don't think I've ever seen video of them being worn in a game. Maybe I'm just off my rocker here.
W
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Farmer1906 said:

I'm not so sure about that. Mac & Canseco were doing it in the late 80s.

HR totals topped 4.4k in '87. It was never close to 4k before that. It wasn't like the late 90s/early 00s, but I think it was certainly starting to spread.
Canseco is definitely in that "some guys were doing it earlier" group. The 1987 season was the rabbit ball year.

1996 was the eye-opening year on the home run leaderboards...in that players started popping up in the top 10 or top 20 that had never been considered sluggers or had never hit many home runs before.

unfortunately the 3 preceding seasons...1993, 1994, 1995...featured expansion, Mile High Stadium/Coors Field, and labor strikes
Harry Dunne
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I missed a couple of pages. Did someone accuse Nolan of roiding?
Harry Dunne
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Tom House admitted to using "steroids they woudn't even give to horses" and estimated that 6 or 7 pitchers per team were roiding...in the 70s!

House was also Nolan's pitching coach in arlington. I know it's tantamount to sacrilege, but I don't think it's out of the question to suspect that Nolan roided at the end of his career.
Ag_07
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I didn't accuse him. I just suggested that it's not unreasonable to ask the question.
Harry Dunne
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100% reasonable to ask the question when a guy is still pumping high 90s fastballs as he's sneaking up on 50 years old.
Bag
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EastCoastAgNc said:


without question the most dumbfounding at bat I have ever seen in a WS

It was as if he was simply screaming "UNCLE!"
Ag_07
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I didn't know that about his pitching coach but I did mention it's not unreasonable given what he was doing at that age at that time and on that team that has quite the history of steroid users/issues.

But at the end of the day IGAF...Makes no difference to me.
EastCoastAgNc
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EastCoastAgNc
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EABC_AG
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I hope I eat these words but it's probably worth preparing yourself for no tucker extension to get done
tjack16
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We at least need to extend Framber. Tucker I'd accept leaving because he will get the 10 year 300 MM plus deal

But we should be able to match an offer for Framber. He'll be 32 when he reaches FA. We could easily offer him 8 years right now (buying out the final 3 of arbitration)
cc10106
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If Tucker can't get a mega deal outta Crane no one will.
MaxPower
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I find it interesting Framber seems to be taking a hard line given his age and team control left. He is the exact kind of player who should be looking for guaranteed money. I hope he eventually gets the deal he wants from someone but I have no appetite to give him more than 5 years. In fact, he's the kind of guy I worry about being offended and it affecting his on field play.
bearkatag15
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Anyone staying up to watch Cuba vs The Netherlands in the WBC?
AustinCountyAg
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Well he better get over it quick if he wants a big deal from another team. Not many mid 30's pitchers get large contracts when there #'s decline.
bearkatag15
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bearkatag15
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Astros Minor League prospect Derek West is getting warm for the Netherlands
bearkatag15
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this dude is more annoying than the drums in Oakland
Big Al 1992
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This is a great memory. There was a lot of Astro pride and bragging rights when JR made Reggie look silly at the plate. Less than 30 days after this he had his career shortening stroke. On my top 10 Astro list for sure. He was amazing 1978-80.

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