IMHO, bottom line is you want Pena's speed on the bases as much as possible with hitters behind him.

You also want him protected between two guys to continue to see good pitches and keep developing his confidence.

It's a tough task with a healthy Brantley but in no way do I want him batting in front of the 9 hole, then again that would give him a better chance to get a few more walks and get on base.

Either way I think some of that goes game by game depending the matchup. But a health Brantley in the 8 hole is a scary thought for opponents getting you back to the top of the lineup quicker, just my two cents.

https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/greatest-houston-astros-yuli-gurriel-17736466.php

Man, I guess I never realized Denny Walling played 1B. I only remember him being at third in RBI Baseball lol.

Farmer1906 said:

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Today, the #Angels announced that the Moreno Family is ending the exploratory process to sell the team and will continue ownership throughout the 2023 Season and beyond. pic.twitter.com/aokYfba1Dp

— Los Angeles Angels (@Angels) January 23, 2023

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Angels Reddit is taking it well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/10jq3ss/angels_will_not_be_sold_at_least_in_2023_arte/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

The Twins are acquiring OF Michael A. Taylor from the Royals for LHP Evan Sisk and RHP Steven Cruz, per source.

— Mark Feinsand (@Feinsand) January 23, 2023

Mathguy64 said:

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I'll translate.

No one wants what I'm selling at the price I'm trying to sell it for. And the lack of long term contract for Ohtani is queering the deals. I'm stuck with this albatross

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Arte overplayed his hand. He should have essentially made Ohtani an urefusable offer, let the ink dry, then put the team up for sale.

What do you that number is? 500?

Beat40 said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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I'll translate.

No one wants what I'm selling at the price I'm trying to sell it for. And the lack of long term contract for Ohtani is queering the deals. I'm stuck with this albatross

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Arte overplayed his hand. He should have essentially made Ohtani an urefusable offer, let the ink dry, then put the team up for sale.

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Moreno is screwed. Ohtani isn't signing with that team as constructed. He's made it clear. So he's got to pony up a lot of cash to sign him and upgrade the team to make it happen. And if he does that he's never getting that money back out. At least not on a fast sale. He's going to either have to dump a lot of cash in now and hope for a sale with a signed Ohtani or he's going to have to sell for a lot less money.

Farmer1906 said:

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What do you that number is? 500?

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I think he could away with 500 if he was willing to put another $80-$100M into pitching over the next couple of seasons.

I'm only coming from that perspective if he's trying to get the most money out of the franchise.

I agree with Mathguy that if he wasn't willing to put the money into the franchise that it would take to make it a winner, he would have to sell it for much less than he wants.

Mathguy64 said:

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Beat40 said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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I'll translate.

No one wants what I'm selling at the price I'm trying to sell it for. And the lack of long term contract for Ohtani is queering the deals. I'm stuck with this albatross

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Arte overplayed his hand. He should have essentially made Ohtani an urefusable offer, let the ink dry, then put the team up for sale.

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Moreno is screwed. Ohtani isn't signing with that team as constructed. He's made it clear. So he's got to pony up a lot of cash to sign him and upgrade the team to make it happen. And if he does that he's never getting that money back out. At least not on a fast sale. He's going to either have to dump a lot of cash in now and hope for a sale with a signed Ohtani or he's going to have to sell for a lot less money.

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Sorry, apparently I lack in reading comprehension!

I agree Arte is screwed now as the team currently is constructed after trying to sell now.

However, I disagree on that he cannot get money back out on big contracts. I think if he is willing to dump $80-$100M into the pitching, he could have Ohtani for 500-550M and I still think he could get what he was asking for it to today, at minimum, in a year or two. He's not paying the full $580-$650M additional if he wants to try to sell again in a couple of years. Ohtani is a huge asset that if marketed well in LA along with a winning team with a legit shot to win makes back a portion of the Ohtani contract and make a dent in a return on the sales price.

Yankees fans have to be loving that!

on the flipside...we forget that Ohtani has been with the Angels since 2018 --- 5 seasons already.

and it hasn't worked out...(zero playoff appearances)..

why do we think it would magically work better in the next 5 years?

W said:

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on the flipside...we forget that Ohtani has been with the Angels since 2018 --- 5 seasons already.

and it hasn't worked out...(zero playoff appearances)..

why do we think it would magically work better in the next 5 years?

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If they continue operating the same as they have been the past decade, they won't get better.

If Arte actually wises up and invests in pitching, they become a really dangerous team. Nothing suggests he is willing to do that though.

Beat40 said:

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W said:

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on the flipside...we forget that Ohtani has been with the Angels since 2018 --- 5 seasons already.

and it hasn't worked out...(zero playoff appearances)..

why do we think it would magically work better in the next 5 years?

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If they continue operating the same as they have been the past decade, they won't get better.

If Arte actually wises up and invests in pitching, they become a really dangerous team. Nothing suggests he is willing to do that though.

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Well… not NOTHING….

https://www.mlb.com/news/angels-pick-only-pitchers-in-2021-mlb-draft

That just isn't guaranteed to pay dividends and even if it does, isn't really for another year or two at least. But they do have some promising youngsters. Need some FA signings to get momentum before then, but they've already destroyed their payroll with bad position contracts.

More than anything, he (or the next owner) needs to not sign Ohtani (trade him for ML-ready prospects preferably), and take the budget savings and pour it into player development resources and experienced staff, including analytics staff. That's what they seem unwilling to do, so that's why I'm a huge fan of Moreno hopefully sticking around.

shano0603 said:

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bearkatag15 said:

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tjack16 said:

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Deluxe said:

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Was listening to JayHay gush over the Astros Abreu signing the other day on the Carrabis podcast. Gave me warm fuzzies.

Also, if Altuve is leading off and Alvarez-Bregman-Tucker-Abreu is 3-6 (my god that's good), then Pena and Brantley are 2 or 7. Who goes where? A good litmus test on how much Dusty values the RLRL stagger.

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I'd go

Altuve
Pena
Alvarez
Bregman
Tucker
Abreu
Brantley

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I get that Peña was great in the post season but no way I putting Abreu that low.

Altuve
Abreu
Alvarez
Bregman
Tucker
Peña
Brantley
Chaz
Maldy

Could have a new nickname in the Triple A's??

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Killer A's

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Hell you could even go:

Altuve
Bregman
Yordan
Abreu
Tucker
Pena
Brantley
Chaz
Maldy

Tuve, Yordan and Abreu all finished in the top 10 in OBS last year with Bregman not far behind and either way you've got your first four hitters in the top 20 in all of baseball in OBS or 3 of the top 5 in the American league at the top of the order. You're also protecting Bregs between those two and he has one of the best eyes in baseball.

You're also protecting Pena still hitting between Tuck and Brantley and it's something to consider with the new rule changes trying to go right/left 2-6 in the order with the 3 batter minimum for relievers.

I know it's not something every manager worries about these days with the lefty vs lefty but with that setup everyone is going to have to be pitched to until you get to Brantley. And I trust Brantley a lot more down in the order with his ability to be patient and find a pitch to hit.

No matter what, with a healthy Brantley there a quite a few nasty combinations that can put together. Hell Yordan may hit 50 hr's this year if he's wedged in between tuve-bregman and Abreu-Tucker.


Hell, what do think it would take the Orioles to give up Cedric Mullins? Maybe Mike Elias will make a deal for us and then come back to the Stros.

I think it would cost a lot for Mullins because he's shown a high ceiling in 2021 and has a 3(4?) years of control left. But Mullins' 2022 wasn't any better than 21 or 22 Chas on offense.

Nino Brown said:

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Hell you could even go:

Altuve
Bregman
Yordan
Abreu
Tucker
Pena
Brantley
Chaz
Maldy

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That would be my order

Deluxe said:

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Was listening to JayHay gush over the Astros Abreu signing the other day on the Carrabis podcast. Gave me warm fuzzies.

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I re-listened to JayHay's analysis of offseason winners/losers. Made a great observation that the Astros signed Abreu for roughly the same AAV that the Cubs signed Bellinger. Basically we got Abreu for the same as a QO. Said he trusts the Astros more than any other franchise to level out his decline over the life of his three year deal too.

He also made fun of the Rangers' attempt to buy their rebuild. Pointed out that the Phillies are probably the most successful "bought rebuild" in recent memory, but noted that the Phillies have Harper, Turner, Realmuto and Wheeler for ~$100mm AAV. The Rangers have Seager, Semien and DeGrom for ~$92mm. Not only are the Rangers far from being contenders even with all the $$$ they're shelling out, they're also doing it very badly relative to the Phillies. If you ranked the seven players listed in this paragraph, Seager and Semien would be 6-7 in most lists.

Latest Vegas Odds
O/U Astro wins 97.5
NYY, NYM, LAD 95.5
TOR 93.5
Phil 88.5
Rangers 81.5
Minnesota Correas 78.5

I think 95 wins the AL West pretty easily, so getting to 98 we'd have to be injury free and Hunter would have to pick up some of the JV wins.

Also 13/2 to win the whole thing
3/1 to win AL

Farmer1906 said:

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I think it would cost a lot for Mullins because he's shown a high ceiling in 2021 and has a 3(4?) years of control left. But Mullins' 2022 wasn't any better than 21 or 22 Chas on offense.

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True man. I was solely looking at SB's

Nino Brown said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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I think it would cost a lot for Mullins because he's shown a high ceiling in 2021 and has a 3(4?) years of control left. But Mullins' 2022 wasn't any better than 21 or 22 Chas on offense.

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True man. I was solely looking at SB's

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Fair. And those could jump with the new rules. I trust our team of coaches (looking at you, Joe) to have a plan for be more aggressive on the base paths. Tucker, Tuve, Pena, & Chas should all be fast enough or smart enough on the base paths to cause a little havoc.

Farmer1906 said:

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It's not as simple as inserting Hunter Brown for JV.

If we assume Framber, Urquidy, & Garcia stay about the same then we're trading 28 JV starts & 12 Odo starts for a few more Javier starts (he had 5 games out of the bullpen & 3 fewer starts than Urquidy & Garcia last year), 12-18 more LMJ starts, and then 13-20 more Brown starts.

I say all that to try to get the point across, it's not just Brown needing to replace JV. Call me crazy, but unless we have Framber or Javier fall off a cliff or some major injuries, we should be close to as good starting pitching wise.

Then when you factor in a much improved offense & a fully stocked bullpen, I could very easily see us flirting with our all time win total.

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Mostly agree. I did a post a few days ago on some of our year-over-year puts and takes. All things equal schedule-wise, I think we challenge our 2019 & 2022 win totals. But fewer AL west games probly dings us a couple wins. Nothing major but just enough to likely put 105+ out of reach.

Farmer1906 said:

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Nino Brown said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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I think it would cost a lot for Mullins because he's shown a high ceiling in 2021 and has a 3(4?) years of control left. But Mullins' 2022 wasn't any better than 21 or 22 Chas on offense.

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True man. I was solely looking at SB's

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Fair. And those could jump with the new rules. I trust our team of coaches (looking at you, Joe) to have a plan for be more aggressive on the base paths. Tucker, Tuve, Pena, & Chas should all be fast enough or smart enough on the base paths to cause a little havoc.

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He's also strictly swinging from the left side too which may have something to do with the overall improvement but yeah I agree, even our old employee would try to squeeze more than worth for him. Yet still somewhat intriguing

Deluxe said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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It's not as simple as inserting Hunter Brown for JV.

If we assume Framber, Urquidy, & Garcia stay about the same then we're trading 28 JV starts & 12 Odo starts for a few more Javier starts (he had 5 games out of the bullpen & 3 fewer starts than Urquidy & Garcia last year), 12-18 more LMJ starts, and then 13-20 more Brown starts.

I say all that to try to get the point across, it's not just Brown needing to replace JV. Call me crazy, but unless we have Framber or Javier fall off a cliff or some major injuries, we should be close to as good starting pitching wise.

Then when you factor in a much improved offense & a fully stocked bullpen, I could very easily see us flirting with our all time win total.

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Mostly agree. I did a post a few days ago on some of our year-over-year puts and takes. All things equal schedule-wise, I think we challenge our 2019 & 2022 win totals. But fewer AL west games probly dings us a couple wins. Nothing major but just enough to likely put 105+ out of reach.

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Here is an article on the impact projected.

https://www.mlb.com/news/how-2023-mlb-balanced-schedule-could-affect-playoff-races

It relies heavily on depth charts projected winning% which feels off to me. It has us at 89 wins & the top team winning 91-92.