Exactly, sit back and be the buyers at this point when and if we need to be. There's going to be a **** ton of sellers and a **** ton of teams with no room and have overblown their wad just to try and get to the world series once in every 8 years while we stay right on the cusp and not lose anymore of our core.Harry Dunne said:
Let all these teams blow their wad and come in when the dust settles and get good values. I like it.
***Official Houston Astros 2022-23 Offseason Thread***
1,070,802 Views |
12340 Replies |
Last: 1 yr ago by Beat40
What if you could get Varsho for Uriquidy, Lee, and Leon? Then sign a Syndegaard for 2/$25 million. Then you can wait and see how Brantley looks in the Spring and sign to a team friendly deal. Gives you a year of Maldy & Varsho and more time to develop Yainer.
I've heard Tucker has told the Astros he wants to test free agency when the time comes. I think an extension is unlikely- but things can change I suppose.
There are going to be a lot of clubs in 5 years paying $35m+ for players worth $10m or less, and no way to get out of it
No.superaggie73 said:
What if you could get Varsho for Uriquidy, Lee, and Leon? Then sign a Syndegaard for 2/$25 million. Then you can wait and see how Brantley looks in the Spring and sign to a team friendly deal. Gives you a year of Maldy & Varsho and more time to develop Yainer.
I think Framber and Javier are much different pitchers now than they were at the end of 2021. They showed flashes up to that point but light bulb seemed to click for both of them in 2022.Nino Brown said:
You want to know why we haven't been more aggressive with these rumored trades for a few different outfielders?
Go back and watch the complete 2021 WS highlights. Yes McCullers wasn't there but, we are so gung ho on Framber and Javier as we should be but, Urquidy is the only one that pitched worth a damn that entire series.
Framber, Javier and Garcia got lit up pretty good so while I'll love our staff and where it's at right now, I love our staff even more without having to give up even Urquidy. Hell in the last 2 years each one of them has looked great at times and rocked a few times in big moments.
So, imho, until we know exactly what Hunter is going to look like halfway through the year, I'm not giving up Jose or Garcia when I believe Brantley will be fine. Dude works harder than anyone in the game to get his body right and back.
It's definitely possible the lightbulb could click for Garcia and/or Urquidy in 2023. We'll see. So you're right that we shouldn't trade either willy nilly. We should only deal one of them if we get something really nice in return and have a plan to backfill their spot in the rotation.
But there's a number of reasons why a rumored OF trade hasn't gone down yet... and that's assuming the rumors are legit. Alot of things have to match up for a trade to work. There's probably more to it than us being unwilling to deal Urquidy or Garcia. With regard to Varsho and Reynolds specifically, the Dbacks and Pirates are likely asking for alot more than one of those two.
I agree with your overarching point though. To the extent nothing comes to fruition in the trade market and we don't land Conforto or Beni, I'm happy to roll into 2023 with Brantley, Chas and Maldy as our 7-8-9. I'm a buyer of Brantley's ability to successfully rehab and return to close to his old self.
Nino Brown said:I guess man. Sure have seen JV, Pujols, Miggy and quite a few others kick father times ass lately. This isn't the 80's anymore. Surgery, recovery and nutrition aren't what they used to be.AustinCountyAg said:yes, but father time has never lost a battle. I think Brantley will play about 80ish games a season here on out. Astros need Benintendi.Nino Brown said:
You want to know why we haven't been more aggressive with these rumored trades for a few different outfielders?
Go back and watch the complete 2021 WS highlights. Yes McCullers wasn't there but, we are so gung ho on Framber and Javier as we should be but, Urquidy is the only one that pitched worth a damn that entire series.
Framber, Javier and Garcia got lit up pretty good so while I'll love our staff and where it's at right now, I love our staff even more without having to give up even Urquidy. Hell in the last 2 years each one of them has looked great at times and rocked a few times in big moments.
So, imho, until we know exactly what Hunter is going to look like halfway through the year, I'm not giving up Jose or Garcia when I believe Brantley will be fine. Dude works harder than anyone in the game to get his body right and back.
Sure take Benintendi, but at what costs? Does it dip into Framber, Valdez, tucker or Bregman money somehow. If so, hard pass right now. We're still back in the ALCS this year with our staff and no major injuries.
Miggy did what now? Since 2017 his WAR is -2.1 with his best year as 0.2. Pujols was just as bad until he (-1.8 between 17 & 21) then he "magically" got better for a stretch. 99.9% believe funny business was going on with pharmaceuticals and/or balls.
I think most would love Brantley back, but it's okay to identify that as a risk with his age and injury history. It's not wrong to want another option too.
I know everyone has high hopes for Brown, but the bottom line is that he is a rookie and there will be bumps in the road. I do believe he will be serviceable for us this year but to count on him to be anything other than a #5 starter is really pushing the expectations.
it is the money we saved by signing Arson Judge and not Aaron Judge.HeightsAg said:
Where is all this crazy money coming from?
I like the Correa deal Giants have not had a star since Buster Posey retired so to have a guy like Correa in the heart of the line up it will help for sure. Also the Dodgers hate him so it is a massive plus. Hope the Giants add another Outfielder like Conforto or Will Meyers. Hope we somehow get Rodon back too but that one looks bleak. Still will be weird seeing Crawford at another position.
Thank you Farmer. Came to post the same response.Farmer1906 said:Nino Brown said:I guess man. Sure have seen JV, Pujols, Miggy and quite a few others kick father times ass lately. This isn't the 80's anymore. Surgery, recovery and nutrition aren't what they used to be.AustinCountyAg said:yes, but father time has never lost a battle. I think Brantley will play about 80ish games a season here on out. Astros need Benintendi.Nino Brown said:
You want to know why we haven't been more aggressive with these rumored trades for a few different outfielders?
Go back and watch the complete 2021 WS highlights. Yes McCullers wasn't there but, we are so gung ho on Framber and Javier as we should be but, Urquidy is the only one that pitched worth a damn that entire series.
Framber, Javier and Garcia got lit up pretty good so while I'll love our staff and where it's at right now, I love our staff even more without having to give up even Urquidy. Hell in the last 2 years each one of them has looked great at times and rocked a few times in big moments.
So, imho, until we know exactly what Hunter is going to look like halfway through the year, I'm not giving up Jose or Garcia when I believe Brantley will be fine. Dude works harder than anyone in the game to get his body right and back.
Sure take Benintendi, but at what costs? Does it dip into Framber, Valdez, tucker or Bregman money somehow. If so, hard pass right now. We're still back in the ALCS this year with our staff and no major injuries.
Miggy did what now? Since 2017 his WAR is -2.1 with his best year as 0.2. Pujols was just as bad until he (-1.8 between 17 & 21) then he "magically" got better for a stretch. 99.9% believe funny business was going on with pharmaceuticals and/or balls.
I think most would love Brantley back, but it's okay to identify that as a risk with his age and injury history. It's not wrong to want another option too.
In regards to your last statement you might wanna calm that thinking down. Baseball is a crazy game and we aren't guaranteed anything even without any injuries.
Luckily that's all we need him to be right now.
We're not trying to replace JV with Hunter.
We're replacing JV with Framber, Framber with Lance, etc etc. Hunter just needs to slide as a #5 and hold his own.
We're not trying to replace JV with Hunter.
We're replacing JV with Framber, Framber with Lance, etc etc. Hunter just needs to slide as a #5 and hold his own.
He was the best AAA starter in baseball last year and then when he got his chance, he gave up 2 runs in 9 games between the regular season and post. Only 2 we're starts. His stuff is good enough. That will translate from the minors. There is plenty of reason to expect he can be way more than a #5.
I do agree it will come with ups and downs. That's just how baseball is regardless if you're a rookie.
I do agree it will come with ups and downs. That's just how baseball is regardless if you're a rookie.
I agree.
I do think they will limit his innings. I would bet we get 20 or so starts of top of the rotation quality with a few growing pains and bumps in the road but overall far better than a number five guy.
I do think they will limit his innings. I would bet we get 20 or so starts of top of the rotation quality with a few growing pains and bumps in the road but overall far better than a number five guy.
Wow, just looked up Nolan Ryan's career earnings…..$25.7M! That's about $70M today. And he averaged about 130 pitches a game.
These young players have it pretty good.
These young players have it pretty good.
I am curious to see how we manage Hunter in 2023. He threw 129 innings last year across AAA and MLB (including playoffs). I doubt we want him over the 150 mark this year.
That's part of why I'd like to bring in a cheap veteran innings eater (assuming no other changes to the staff from here forward). Hunter will need to make a manufactured IL appearance at some point during the year. There's also no point in pushing LMJ or Javier hard. We're going to need a 7th guy at some point.
To the poster above, I don't think we're "counting on" Hunter to be special this year. We've got the luxury of keeping him in the 5/6 slots for a while. With that said, I do think there's reason to believe he could be very good this year and really hit his stride as we approach October.
That's part of why I'd like to bring in a cheap veteran innings eater (assuming no other changes to the staff from here forward). Hunter will need to make a manufactured IL appearance at some point during the year. There's also no point in pushing LMJ or Javier hard. We're going to need a 7th guy at some point.
To the poster above, I don't think we're "counting on" Hunter to be special this year. We've got the luxury of keeping him in the 5/6 slots for a while. With that said, I do think there's reason to believe he could be very good this year and really hit his stride as we approach October.
Let's talk what Urquidy actually is.
He's a 27-year-old with 3 years of control. He should be in his prime. That means he'll probably make 3/14 M. He's cheap but no longer making near the league min.
His career ERA is 3.74. This past year when the balls were mostly dead it went up to 3.94. His best year was 2020 when he had a 2.73 in only 5 starts.
If you look at the more advanced stuff, he's excellent at not walking guys and his curveball spin is good. Overall, there is more blue on here than you'd want.
Outside the numbers, he's a guy you want on your team. Doesn't complain. Works hard. Competes.
Ultimately, is he someone we're going to reply on in the postseason? When he's gotten opportunities, he's excelled, but this past season he was the ~13th/14th best pitcher on the roster. If we go with a 4 man rotation, he's fighting Garcia & Brown for the 4th spot and likely losing IMO.
Not only in our rotation but in most he's a 4/5 type across the league. I would be fine with dealing him as long as we added a short-term replacement like Eovaldi, Wacha, Kluber, Ceuto, Miley, etc and we got enough value back to make a difference to our everyday roster.
He's a 27-year-old with 3 years of control. He should be in his prime. That means he'll probably make 3/14 M. He's cheap but no longer making near the league min.
His career ERA is 3.74. This past year when the balls were mostly dead it went up to 3.94. His best year was 2020 when he had a 2.73 in only 5 starts.
If you look at the more advanced stuff, he's excellent at not walking guys and his curveball spin is good. Overall, there is more blue on here than you'd want.
Outside the numbers, he's a guy you want on your team. Doesn't complain. Works hard. Competes.
Ultimately, is he someone we're going to reply on in the postseason? When he's gotten opportunities, he's excelled, but this past season he was the ~13th/14th best pitcher on the roster. If we go with a 4 man rotation, he's fighting Garcia & Brown for the 4th spot and likely losing IMO.
Not only in our rotation but in most he's a 4/5 type across the league. I would be fine with dealing him as long as we added a short-term replacement like Eovaldi, Wacha, Kluber, Ceuto, Miley, etc and we got enough value back to make a difference to our everyday roster.
Adjusting for market, Correa's deal is 13 years for $172 million if he lived in Houston. Astros offered 5 years for $160 million. I know it's not apples to apples since half the games/taxes are on the road but still seems like a huge cut when adjusting for SF prices.
Crazy these guys continue to take the most money regardless of market. I guess the agents and union have a good handle on ways to trick players into ignoring reality.
Crazy these guys continue to take the most money regardless of market. I guess the agents and union have a good handle on ways to trick players into ignoring reality.
I understand what you're saying. My analogy was more towards Mike being the ultimate contact/placement hitter. Using the father time thing with a guy like him doesn't necessarily apply yet with the type of player he is. We need him to split half the season in LF for Yordan and possible split the DH with someone else when Yordan's in left. That father time is worth the risk to me versus any left over free agents possibly dipping into our cores upcoming contracts. And no it's not wrong to want another option, but me personally I'm not even giving up Urquidy or Garcia much less giving anyone a 4 plus year deal that's still out there. This lineup is deadly even more so now with father time Abreu. Now if the trade market cools fine, but I'm not giving up any of our starters when they're all solid but have all struggled a time or two the past 2 seasons. So yeah, let's look at other options in LF/OF, what are you willing to sacrifice?Farmer1906 said:Nino Brown said:I guess man. Sure have seen JV, Pujols, Miggy and quite a few others kick father times ass lately. This isn't the 80's anymore. Surgery, recovery and nutrition aren't what they used to be.AustinCountyAg said:yes, but father time has never lost a battle. I think Brantley will play about 80ish games a season here on out. Astros need Benintendi.Nino Brown said:
You want to know why we haven't been more aggressive with these rumored trades for a few different outfielders?
Go back and watch the complete 2021 WS highlights. Yes McCullers wasn't there but, we are so gung ho on Framber and Javier as we should be but, Urquidy is the only one that pitched worth a damn that entire series.
Framber, Javier and Garcia got lit up pretty good so while I'll love our staff and where it's at right now, I love our staff even more without having to give up even Urquidy. Hell in the last 2 years each one of them has looked great at times and rocked a few times in big moments.
So, imho, until we know exactly what Hunter is going to look like halfway through the year, I'm not giving up Jose or Garcia when I believe Brantley will be fine. Dude works harder than anyone in the game to get his body right and back.
Sure take Benintendi, but at what costs? Does it dip into Framber, Valdez, tucker or Bregman money somehow. If so, hard pass right now. We're still back in the ALCS this year with our staff and no major injuries.
Miggy did what now? Since 2017 his WAR is -2.1 with his best year as 0.2. Pujols was just as bad until he (-1.8 between 17 & 21) then he "magically" got better for a stretch. 99.9% believe funny business was going on with pharmaceuticals and/or balls.
I think most would love Brantley back, but it's okay to identify that as a risk with his age and injury history. It's not wrong to want another option too.
I think you need to check your math.jckrjr7 said:
Adjusting for market, Correa's deal is 13 years for $172 million if he lived in Houston. Astros offered 5 years for $160 million. I know it's not apples to apples since half the games/taxes are on the road but still seems like a huge cut when adjusting for SF prices.
Crazy these guys continue to take the most money regardless of market. I guess the agents and union have a good handle on ways to trick players into ignoring reality.
Good post.
I'm not counting on him or Garcia to make a big jump in 2023. Both can still be plenty effective even if they don't. But I wouldn't put it past our pitching braintrust to slightly alter their pitch distribution, sequencing or mechanics and pave the way for one of them to emerge as a top-of-rotation starter next year.
I'm not counting on him or Garcia to make a big jump in 2023. Both can still be plenty effective even if they don't. But I wouldn't put it past our pitching braintrust to slightly alter their pitch distribution, sequencing or mechanics and pave the way for one of them to emerge as a top-of-rotation starter next year.
I read an interesting comment this morning that based on his cultural upbringing, Ohtani will likely not pick the Dodgers because it will be like he's disrespecting the Angels and tarnishing his own honor by moving to another team in the same city.Farmer1906 said:
I don't think would remove the Giants. They're still under the tax and have ~80 M coming off the books next year. I do think the Dodgers will go all out for him.
I understand, but did you see Dusty decline trading him while pissing off Maldy/messing with the staff in middle of the season?Farmer1906 said:
Let's talk what Urquidy actually is.
He's a 27-year-old with 3 years of control. He should be in his prime. That means he'll probably make 3/14 M. He's cheap but no longer making near the league min.
His career ERA is 3.74. This past year when the balls were mostly dead it went up to 3.94. His best year was 2020 when he had a 2.73 in only 5 starts.
If you look at the more advanced stuff, he's excellent at not walking guys and his curveball spin is good. Overall, there is more blue on here than you'd want.
Outside the numbers, he's a guy you want on your team. Doesn't complain. Works hard. Competes.
Ultimately, is he someone we're going to reply on in the postseason? When he's gotten opportunities, he's excelled, but this past season he was the ~13th/14th best pitcher on the roster. If we go with a 4 man rotation, he's fighting Garcia & Brown for the 4th spot and likely losing IMO.
Not only in our rotation but in most he's a 4/5 type across the league. I would be fine with dealing him as long as we added a short-term replacement like Eovaldi, Wacha, Kluber, Ceuto, Miley, etc and we got enough value back to make a difference to our everyday roster.
Without Urquidy, we get swept in 2021. If he gives you trade value without any other prospects for someone that doesn't have a team controlled deal for two years, great. Urquidy is a value to us, I don't think he's a value to team rebuilding and trying to dump a few guys with upcoming expiring contracts, those teams are gonna want more than that for a guy like even Reynolds. So I guess that would depend on what all us they'd want, hence the reason why we are not in a position to have to rush or make rash decisions. No one in the AL has gotten better than us in the offseason even with the loss of JV to this point.
Math and the man's woman. She ain't living in no Minnesota for 7-10 years.Farmer1906 said:I think you need to check your math.jckrjr7 said:
Adjusting for market, Correa's deal is 13 years for $172 million if he lived in Houston. Astros offered 5 years for $160 million. I know it's not apples to apples since half the games/taxes are on the road but still seems like a huge cut when adjusting for SF prices.
Crazy these guys continue to take the most money regardless of market. I guess the agents and union have a good handle on ways to trick players into ignoring reality.
I agree with the bolded part. It's questionable how much a rebuilding team would value Urquidy. They'd probly want Garcia more given that he's FA after 2026 (Urquidy is after 2025). Brown is our best trade asset in that regard but he's close to untouchable.Nino Brown said:
I understand, but did you see Dusty decline trading him while pissing off Maldy/messing with the staff in middle of the season?
Without Urquidy, we get swept in 2021. If he gives you trade value without any other prospects for someone that doesn't have a team controlled deal for two years, great. Urquidy is a value to us, I don't think he's a value to team rebuilding and trying to dump a few guys with upcoming expiring contracts, those teams are gonna want more than that for a guy like even Reynolds. So I guess that would depend on what all us they'd want, hence the reason why we are not in a position to have to rush or make rash decisions. No one in the AL has gotten better than us in the offseason even with the loss of JV to this point.
I didn't see anything on a no trade clause. If that is the case, Giants will regret this deal.
Coming to say something similar. He's worth more to a contending team than to AZ.Deluxe said:I agree with the bolded part. It's questionable how much a rebuilding team would value Urquidy. They'd probly want Garcia more given that he's FA after 2026 (Urquidy is after 2025). Brown is our best trade asset in that regard but he's close to untouchable.Nino Brown said:
I understand, but did you see Dusty decline trading him while pissing off Maldy/messing with the staff in middle of the season?
Without Urquidy, we get swept in 2021. If he gives you trade value without any other prospects for someone that doesn't have a team controlled deal for two years, great. Urquidy is a value to us, I don't think he's a value to team rebuilding and trying to dump a few guys with upcoming expiring contracts, those teams are gonna want more than that for a guy like even Reynolds. So I guess that would depend on what all us they'd want, hence the reason why we are not in a position to have to rush or make rash decisions. No one in the AL has gotten better than us in the offseason even with the loss of JV to this point.
I think we'd need to get a 3rd team involved. Someone like the Phillies could use a cheap controller innings eating. Have them toss in a few prospects, we add a guy, and boom we got Var.
I hope not having a GM at the moment isn't hurting us too badly when it comes to stuff like this.
In Minnesota's defense it is nice in the summer, but still. I'm assuming after a week in Minneapolis you're ready to GTFO
Agreed, that's why our options are currently limited. The risk-reward ratio just isn't there with a current lineup and staff that should have you easily right back at 100 wins.Deluxe said:I agree with the bolded part. It's questionable how much a rebuilding team would value Urquidy. They'd probly want Garcia more given that he's FA after 2026 (Urquidy is after 2025). Brown is our best trade asset in that regard but he's close to untouchable.Nino Brown said:
I understand, but did you see Dusty decline trading him while pissing off Maldy/messing with the staff in middle of the season?
Without Urquidy, we get swept in 2021. If he gives you trade value without any other prospects for someone that doesn't have a team controlled deal for two years, great. Urquidy is a value to us, I don't think he's a value to team rebuilding and trying to dump a few guys with upcoming expiring contracts, those teams are gonna want more than that for a guy like even Reynolds. So I guess that would depend on what all us they'd want, hence the reason why we are not in a position to have to rush or make rash decisions. No one in the AL has gotten better than us in the offseason even with the loss of JV to this point.
According to Bankrate, this is accurate.
https://www.bankrate.com/real-estate/cost-of-living-calculator/
https://www.bankrate.com/real-estate/cost-of-living-calculator/
Nolan Ryan threw 5 innings and struck out 12 guys while you were typing this post.jakeaggie84 said:
Wow, just looked up Nolan Ryan's career earnings…..$25.7M! That's about $70M today. And he averaged about 130 pitches a game.
These young players have it pretty good.
I like Minnesota. My statement was speaking on behalf of the 20 something latin girls I've dated in the past 20 years or so.AustinCountyAg said:
In Minnesota's defense it is nice in the summer, but still. I'm assuming after a week in Minneapolis you're ready to GTFO
taxes are taken out per game, per the state they are in.
I believe taxes are taken based on where the games are played so you can't compare all 13 years worth of games in one city vs another.
We are just in such a weird phase of contracts. It's like teams are just doing whatever they can to sign guys for the next 2-3, and ignoring the 7-8 years after that of remaining financial shackles.
I understand that, but if you base just the amount of time and the cost of living in SF compared to Houston, especially with CC and his wife's lifestyle, it will likely be pretty damn close.
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