Mathguy64 said:

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JV was helped immensely this year by a great pen and a 6 man rotation. He won't have those things in NY.

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Big Al 1992 said:

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Props to JV. He got Astros over the hump in 2017, back to the dance in 2019 and helped us win another one in 2022. This amazing ride doesn't happen without him.

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We've already seen that we can still get there with losing pieces. Verlander is the same. We got there last year without him. I will add that we would've won it all in '19 if he hadn't been on the team. He had 2 terrible starts in that WS.

Bummer. But smart move. If you aren't going to throw crazy money at an all star SS in his prime, you certainly can't do this deal.

Reload with young guys.

I still need a Farmer deep dive on how well you think Abreu's stuff would translate to being a starter.

My elementary read of Baseball Savant is that he mostly relied on fastball/slider out of the pen last year. He'd drop in the curveball about 10% of the time and no one could hit it.

Hard to say to what extent his effectiveness would diminish if had to keep gas in the tank for 6 innings as opposed to deploying it all in 1-2 innings. Given his build, stuff and competitive makeup, my gut tells me he could be a top of the rotation starter. If that's the case, he's more valuable there than in the pen. But given how good he is (and could still be) at his current high lev role, it would be a risk to move him.

Who knows if the rumors are even true or not. Just interesting to think about.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/bryan-abreu-650556?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

Of our 3 previous big-time free agent departures of the championship era, neither Springer, Cole, or Correa has been close in terms of production to what they were as an Astro. Let's see how JV does.

I've eliminating the 2020 season for these comparisons since it was so abrupt.

Springer
Last full Astros year, 2019: 39 HR, 96 RBi, .292/.383/.591
Salary: $21m

First Blue Jay year (hurt), 2021: 22 HR, 50 RBI, .264/.352/.555
Salary: $23.7m
First Blue Jay year (healthy): 25 HR, 76 RBi, .267/.342/.472
Salary: $29.7m

Cole
Last full Astros year, 2019: 20-5, 2.50 ERA, 326 K
Salary: $13.5m

First full Yankee year, 2021: 16-8, 3.23 ERA, 243 K
Salary: $36m

Correa
Last full Astros year, 2021: 104 R, 26 HR, 92 RBI, .279/.366/.485
Salary: $11.7m

First full Twins year, 2022: 70 R, 22 HR, 64 RBi, .291/.366/.467
Salary: $35.1m

A lot of you guys know a lot more about the recent game than me, who is the last free agent to be really good with one team, sign a huge deal elsewhere, and be even better at the place they went right away?

The Porkchop Express said:

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All I do is Nguyen said:

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My next question is this:

Who is going to replace rally Kate?? I am sure going to miss those gifs

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This is our biggest offseason concern as a fan base. We should probably have tryouts and nominees. Someone post every single player's WAG's IG please.

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LMJ wife

Congrats to JV! I'm glad the Astros did not pay that kind of money for him.

As far as Contreras, I'm a little lukewarm. Also, with Uncle Mike, I'm worried about age and health.

I'd like the Astros to go get Benintendi. For catcher, I'd rather roll with Maldy and maybe trade for Varsho - if the deal is right.

For me when discussing Abreu it's the BP's ability to shorten games with him in there.

The way the BP set ups right now is perfect for not needing 6+ out of your starter and being able to disperse a seasons worth of appearances across multiple arms.

You put Abreu in the rotation and I don't think the pros outweigh the cons.

Right. Unless we're playing the actual Mets there is zero reason to make changes here.

I'm relieved that he didn't go to the Yankees. TBH I'm most relieved that he didn't come back here.

I think it's going to end up being a terrible deal, but just on the chance that he's Nolan Ryan part II, I'm glad we don't have to see him.

Pour one out for Kate

Newest #Mets Fan & Wife, @KateUpton hates the #Phillies as much as we do. #LGM pic.twitter.com/SfTCB4K5k2

— GENY Mets Report (@genymets) December 5, 2022

W said:

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the Mets payroll is something else...

$43 MM for JV
$43 MM for Scherzer
$32 MM for Lindor
$20 MM for Cano...still paying him in 2023
$19 MM for Marte

where's the development from the minors?

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I saw it posted on r/baseball that what the Mets are paying Scherzer and JV alone is higher than five teams' entire payrolls: the Marlins, Guardians, Pirates, Orioles, and A's.

Quote:

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https://theathletic.com/3971929/2022/12/05/mlb-free-agent-news-verlander/

The market for free-agent catcher Christian Vzquez includes the Cubs, Cardinals, Padres, Guardians and Twins. The Astros also have interest in retaining Vzquez, but in more of a job share with Martn Maldonado.

Vzquez, 32, seems likely to land a three-year deal. During the postseason, opponents scored only one run in the 33 innings he caught for the Astros, on J.T. Realmuto's 10th-inning homer off Luis Garcia in Game 1 of the World Series.

While the Astros' pitching staff deserves much of the credit, Vzquez was behind the plate for the final 12 innings of the Division Series clincher against the Mariners, the combined nine-inning shutout of the Yankees in Game 3 of the ALCS and the combined no-hitter in Game 4 of the World Series.

Speaking of the Astros, they are eyeing three left-handed hitting outfielders Andrew Benintendi, Michael Brantley and Michael Conforto.

All three ended the season in various forms of disrepair. Benintendi, 28, suffered a fractured hamate bone in his right hand on Sept. 2. Brantley, 35, did not play after June 26 and had surgery on his right shoulder on Aug. 12. Conforto, 29, suffered an injury to his right shoulder in January, underwent surgery in April and did not play at all last season.

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Deluxe said:

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I still need a Farmer deep dive on how well you think Abreu's stuff would translate to being a starter.

My elementary read of Baseball Savant is that he mostly relied on fastball/slider out of the pen last year. He'd drop in the curveball about 10% of the time and no one could hit it.

Hard to say to what extent his effectiveness would diminish if had to keep gas in the tank for 6 innings as opposed to deploying it all in 1-2 innings. Given his build, stuff and competitive makeup, my gut tells me he could be a top of the rotation starter. If that's the case, he's more valuable there than in the pen. But given how good he is (and could still be) at his current high lev role, it would be a risk to move him.

Who knows if the rumors are even true or not. Just interesting to think about.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/bryan-abreu-650556?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

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How about a not medium dive? In general, your velo is going to drop pretty significantly if you're moving from bullpen to starter. We see Garcia hitting 98 in the playoffs like it's no big deal. His avg fastball is 94 in the regular season. Abreu's 97 4 seam avg and 96 2 seam avg would likely drop down to 93-94 on avg with the ability to dial up harder. That's. obviously, not bad, but velo matters.

As far as pitch mix, he's got 3 pitches he relies on. Vs RHH its Slider-4 Seam. Vs LHH its 4 Seam-Slider-Curve. You'd like a 4th pitch. Maybe he finds a way to incorporate the 2 sean. Get a few more ground balls. He's never really used the change-up much at all.

Regardless or velo and his arsenal, his stuff is going to still play. It's plenty good. What worried me is the ability to throw strikes consistently. The fatal flaw that keeps LMJ from being an ace's ace is this. Abreu's zone% and bb% are similar to Lance's. And Abreu is just now getting to that spot. Who's to say if he can keep it up in a starter's role or even in 2023.

Clearly, already stud starter >>>> high leverage bullpen guy. But I am not sure I want to mess with Abreu after it looks like he figured something out in 2022.

Why are we sleeping on Vasquez??

Post season experience. Knows the organization and staff. Fits.

162 is a long season, can split duties with maldy 50/50 and is a good hedge against injury.

Deluxe said:

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https://nypost.com/2022/12/04/marlins-open-to-trading-any-pitcher-except-sandy-alcantara/

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Dusty trying to nix it, again?

HarryRocket said:

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Why are we sleeping on Vasquez??

Post season experience. Knows the organization and staff. Fits.

162 is a long season, can split duties with maldy 50/50 and is a good hedge against injury.

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Wonder if a lot of it is his willingness to sit for half the games based on how much he can get elsewhere where he can be every day.

Farmer1906 said:

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He doesn't want to be a backup.

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Why cant Maldy be the backup?

Farmer1906 said:

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How about a not medium dive? In general, your velo is going to drop pretty significantly if you're moving from bullpen to starter. We see Garcia hitting 98 in the playoffs like it's no big deal. His avg fastball is 94 in the regular season. Abreu's 97 4 seam avg and 96 2 seam avg would likely drop down to 93-94 on avg with the ability to dial up harder. That's. obviously, not bad, but velo matters.

As far as pitch mix, he's got 3 pitches he relies on. Vs RHH its Slider-4 Seam. Vs LHH its 4 Seam-Slider-Curve. You'd like a 4th pitch. Maybe he finds a way to incorporate the 2 sean. Get a few more ground balls. He's never really used the change-up much at all.

Regardless or velo and his arsenal, his stuff is going to still play. It's plenty good. What worried me is the ability to throw strikes consistently. The fatal flaw that keeps LMJ from being an ace's ace is this. Abreu's zone% and bb% are similar to Lance's. And Abreu is just now getting to that spot. Who's to say if he can keep it up in a starter's role or even in 2023.

Clearly, already stud starter >>>> high leverage bullpen guy. But I am not sure I want to mess with Abreu after it looks like he figured something out in 2022.

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Good stuff, thanks. I wasn't sure the rule of thumb for velo drop going from pen to starter.

I agree with the general sentiment of "why fix what's not broken". After a few years of middling, we finally found a role for him to excel. Agree with Ag07 that there's alot of value in a "game shortener" too.

If we do make the change, it has to mean our brass is very confident that he'll be a top of rotation starter.

This would look really weird

AustinCountyAg said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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He doesn't want to be a backup.

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Why cant Maldy be the backup?

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because Dusty

BREAKING: Shortstop Trea Turner and the Philadelphia Phillies are in agreement on a contract, a source tells ESPN.

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) December 5, 2022

HarryRocket said:

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Why are we sleeping on Vasquez??

Post season experience. Knows the organization and staff. Fits.

162 is a long season, can split duties with maldy 50/50 and is a good hedge against injury.

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I like Vazquez a lot and wouldn't mind him doing the lion's share over Maldy. I think the appeal of Contreras is he can also play LF and seems to be ok with the C/LF/DH split

redline248 said:

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Deluxe said:

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https://nypost.com/2022/12/04/marlins-open-to-trading-any-pitcher-except-sandy-alcantara/

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Dusty trying to nix it, again?

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It would be nice if Dusty, Maldy and our front office could get in a room and sort this out.

It's not that signing Contreras to be a backup catcher/utility guy for 4/$80 can't be justified, it's that there might be a more efficient way of upgrading the roster/C position while retaining more resources to deploy elsewhere.

If the only thing standing between Vazquez returning on a 3/$30 type of deal is that he wants to be the starter, I feel like there should be a way to accommodate him for 4/6 of our rotation and let Maldy take the other 2.

Maybe give Framber to Maldy so gets to start g1 of a given playoff series. Vazquez gets LMJ, Javier, Brown and one of Urquidy/Garcia. Maldy gets the other and any rookies we call up during the year to fill in.

Dusty and Maldy have to know that Maldy's days as an everyday C are just about up. It would be a huge contribution to the future of the team if we can integrate Vazquez as our starting catcher this year and let him be the man going forward. There's gotta be a way to make it work.

Trea Turner gets 11-year, $300 million deal w Phillies

— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) December 5, 2022