73 is the record

Aggies2009 said:

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With Aaron Judge speeding towards 62 home runs, people have been debating what the "real" home run record is.

Some say Bonds and his 73.
Some say Maris with 61 because he didn't use steroids.
A few say Babe Ruth because he hit 60 in 154 games and Maris hit 61 in 162.

If Judge hits 62, where do you see it? Is that the "real" record? Or just the AL record?

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It's the juiced ball record

Not the juiced player record

61

73 to Republicans
61 to Democrats

73 of course. I'm not afraid of a little juice.

But seriously it's Bonds. Get it over it.

Aggies2009 said:

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With Aaron Judge speeding towards 62 home runs, people have been debating what the "real" home run record is.

Some say Bonds and his 73.
Some say Maris with 61 because he didn't use steroids.
A few say Babe Ruth because he hit 60 in 154 games and Maris hit 61 in 162.

If Judge hits 62, where do you see it? Is that the "real" record? Or just the AL record?

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How do you know judge hasn't used steroids or hgh?

The record is the record. Period.

This is stupid.

the further and further we get from the steroid era...

the more and more Bonds', McGwire's, and Sosa's home run accomplishments become a joke.

in part because no one else has come close to their numbers in the last 20 years despite juiced balls, launch angles, one-true outcome, pitching injuries, and so forth.

cannot take their records serious.

Aaron (755), Ruth (60), and Maris (61).

next question

Aggies2009 said:

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With Aaron Judge speeding towards 62 home runs, people have been debating what the "real" home run record is.

Some say Bonds and his 73.
Some say Maris with 61 because he didn't use steroids.
A few say Babe Ruth because he hit 60 in 154 games and Maris hit 61 in 162.

If Judge hits 62, where do you see it? Is that the "real" record? Or just the AL record?

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fyi, pitchers used steroids too.

73.

Harry Stone said:

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Aggies2009 said:

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With Aaron Judge speeding towards 62 home runs, people have been debating what the "real" home run record is.

Some say Bonds and his 73.
Some say Maris with 61 because he didn't use steroids.
A few say Babe Ruth because he hit 60 in 154 games and Maris hit 61 in 162.

If Judge hits 62, where do you see it? Is that the "real" record? Or just the AL record?

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fyi, pitchers used steroids too.

73.

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Not all pitchers juiced, but every at bat by Bonds was juiced on his end. Aaron and Maris would be it in my record book.

Baseball is an incredibly cheaty sport, and that goes all the way back to the beginning. Given that guys have always cheated, it doesn't make sense that the best of the best were all clean. If they were the very best in an industry where many were cheating, it stands to reason that many of the guys that hold records also cheated.

If you you take away all the records by all the guys that cheated you're not going to have too many records left.

And baseball knows that or they would've taken away Bonds' records and the Astros championship and so on.

The record is 73.

'58 - 28
'59 - 16
'60 - 39
'61 - 61
'62 - 33
'63 - 23
'64 - 26

Yep, nothing suspicious about 61 homers out of nowhere for Rog.

I always like to enter this argument. Go to baseball reference and look up Bonds. He made a mockery of the game in his late 30s. At 39 years old, he walked 232 times and struck out 41 times over an entire season. His OBP was .609.

73 doesn't exist to me. Some of you act like, well if it happened it happened so deal with it. But the reality is that Lance Armstrong was stripped of his titles, so why can't we strip Bonds of his "titles" as well. 73 is clearly a tainted number and the existence of other cheaters in the game doesn't justify the world's best cheater to continue to have a spot in the record book.

Baseball has remained stubborn when it comes to Pete Rose, I have no idea why they don't take the same stance with Bonds and just ban him and vacate his numbers.

AggieEP said:

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I always like to enter this argument. Go to baseball reference and look up Bonds. He made a mockery of the game in his late 30s. At 39 years old, he walked 232 times and struck out 41 times over an entire season. His OBP was .609.

73 doesn't exist to me. Some of you act like, well if it happened it happened so deal with it. But the reality is that Lance Armstrong was stripped of his titles, so why can't we strip Bonds of his "titles" as well. 73 is clearly a tainted number and the existence of other cheaters in the game doesn't justify the world's best cheater to continue to have a spot in the record book.

Baseball has remained stubborn when it comes to Pete Rose, I have no idea why they don't take the same stance with Bonds and just ban him and vacate his numbers.

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You can't do this because:

1) Bonds never, ever tested positive for anything nor received a suspension during a time when baseball was testing for such things. Blame baseball's governance for being so incompetent that they outlawed PEDs in 1991 but didn't start testing them until 2003.

2) Was part of the BALCO settlement where Greg Anderson, et al that did not require them to reveal the names of athletes who might have used banned drugs

3) Was indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice, but only found guilty of obstruction of justice for giving an evasive answer to a question under oath. He was found guilty and got a whopping 30 days of house arrest and some community service, plus 2 years probation, and then got his conviction overturned in 2015.

I doubt there's a person alive who thinks Bonds did not use steroids and PEDs to break the record and turn into the most incredible offensive player since Babe Ruth, but since the game and the courts failed to actually prove it, you can't take it away from him. If you did, you would have to go heavy on the REDACTED pen and start marking through the stats of every suspected steroid user in baseball history.

Rose got wiped out from the HOF ballot because he clearly bet on baseball with documented evidence that he then lied about not existing for 15 years from 1989 to 2004. Plus, he went to actual prison on falsifying tax returns. His records are still in the books though. I think he should be reinstated because he was a legendary player, but I suspect baseball people think if he does get welcomed back, he'll be the same d*bag he's always been and they'll end up regretting it. If there's no proof he gambled during his playing days, he should make the HOF as a player.

The real trick is, if you dont count Bonds for potential steroid use, there are a lot of other records/stats from other players you'd have to expunge.

Im also not convinced current players arent on anything either

Anyone saying to void bonds' 73 but following judge's year as a new record is a yankee homer…..

AggieEP said:

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I'm no Yankees homer, and if feasible I'd be ok with expunging lots of other numbers too. The guys made their money, so it has no real punishment here, but it does send a message.

With Bonds my main issue is that 60 and then 61 were such central numbers for baseball fans. Now there are ridiculous numbers like 70 and 73 that just don't have the same meaning to fans.

As for guys on stuff today, likely and perhaps assured. But again look at Bonds' stats. At 39 he had the greatest offensive season in the history of baseball. An OPS of 1.409. At 39 years old.

I know that the rest of you don't see it the same way, but there is cheating, and then there is turning yourself into the super shredder at the end of Ninja Turtles II. Bonds made the decision to stupidly cheat like no one else before or since. That's why I compare him to Lance Armstrong, a guy with hubris so large that he didn't just want to win he wanted to win so much that he was willing to turn his sport into a farce.

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You don't really believe that?

The majority of players were cheating. He was just better than all of them.

AggieEP said:

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I do believe that, he literally took things that changed his skeletal physiology. His head grew several sizes as did his shoe size.

Again yes other guys are also cheating I don't deny that, my argument is simply that Bonds specifically was taking stuff far beyond what most of the "regular" cheaters were taking. He had his own lab at BALCO busy helping turn him into the greatest baseball player of all time.

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Balco named Sheffield, both Giambis, and whoever the hell Armando Rios is.

You sound a lot like the guys who point the finger at the Astros when there have been dozens of other reports that do lesser, similar, and potentially worse.

Aggies2009 said:

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With Aaron Judge speeding towards 62 home runs, people have been debating what the "real" home run record is.

Some say Bonds and his 73.
Some say Maris with 61 because he didn't use steroids.
A few say Babe Ruth because he hit 60 in 154 games and Maris hit 61 in 162.

If Judge hits 62, where do you see it? Is that the "real" record? Or just the AL record?

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Maris actually hit 61 in 163 games. I believe he hit his 61st homerun in that 163rd [playoff] game.

I'm a San Francisco Giants fan, but I can't give Bonds credit for the official record. What Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, ARod and so many others did should not be reflected in the official records since they cheated. Bonds was amazing before PEDs; he got pissed that McGuire and Sosa and others were getting credit (and $) for their achievements while cheating, so he said "why not join in." Bonds was unstoppable with PEDs; best ever as a hitter (though his fielding got worse with that big bobble head).

Coming into 2022, I've viewed it as 61 in a 162 game season and 60 in a 154 game season.

I agree with the poster that said baseball is a "cheaty" sport and you basically have to take all listed records.

People are pretending that Albert Pujols isn't juicing right now. Its obvious he is, but everyone likes to get caught up in the moment of enjoying record setting performances. Nobody is going to point out that he hit 7 homeruns over four months and now he is magically hitting that mark every month. Did he just figure out his swing?

Tons of accepted cheating in baseball.

If it wasn't a Yankee going after it would it be covered like this? They're breaking into college football games to show at-bats. Its an impressive feat, but its not even close to the overall record. Since when do you we really care about league records like this?

73

Single season - 73
Career - 762

AggieEP said:

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I'm no Yankees homer, and if feasible I'd be ok with expunging lots of other numbers too. The guys made their money, so it has no real punishment here, but it does send a message.

With Bonds my main issue is that 60 and then 61 were such central numbers for baseball fans. Now there are ridiculous numbers like 70 and 73 that just don't have the same meaning to fans.

As for guys on stuff today, likely and perhaps assured. But again look at Bonds' stats. At 39 he had the greatest offensive season in the history of baseball. An OPS of 1.409. At 39 years old.

I know that the rest of you don't see it the same way, but there is cheating, and then there is turning yourself into the super shredder at the end of Ninja Turtles II. Bonds made the decision to stupidly cheat like no one else before or since. That's why I compare him to Lance Armstrong, a guy with hubris so large that he didn't just want to win he wanted to win so much that he was willing to turn his sport into a farce.

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There has been SO MUCH cheating in the game of baseball. So much more than I think people know. Baseball as a sport accepts cheating more readily than others because the game has been built on it and many of the sports biggest moments are a result of cheating. I think you have to take the numbers for what they are, tell the whole story, and let the people decide for themselves.

you'll never convince me Judge and Pujols aren't getting special balls.

The Porkchop Express said:

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If steroids went from having you hit 4 homers in 4 months to 14 homers in 2 months, I feel like 80% of the league would be taking them.

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Yeah, that's basically how it works.

You also just summed up baseball in the 90s and 2000s.