astros4545 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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TAM85 said:

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Little League WS is great to watch. All leagues and teams have to follow the same rules to determine the players on each team, and closed bases are just fine for 11 and 12 year olds.

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Disagree with this.

And 46/60 with 225 fences are way too small. Most of these kids are practically 13 and I've seen more than a few kids at 12 hit 250' tanks with wood bats.

A good select pitcher at 12 is throwing at least 65 and can locate a curve. That's practically unhittable at 46'. My kid faced 80 from 50' in 12U this past season and that's absurd. Rare but absurd. The equivalent reaction time is for 60' is like 105mph.

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65mph is very hittable for an all star team at 46 feet

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Not if they can locate a secondary pitch.

65 at 46' is roughly the equivalent reaction time for 95mph at 60' and all those Hawaii kids last night were sitting around 65-67.

TAM85 said:

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I just disagree with you. If the bases are closed for everyone and they have to play by the same rules that is fair.

All LL all star teams have to determine their players under the same rules. A coach cannot pick who he wants on his team, players cannot move from one team to another and a coach cannot cut a player because he or she is not good enough or add a player because he or she is great. The same rules apply to forming all teams.

There were about 6,000 fans at the Pearland game last night. The fans at select games are typically comprised of mom, dad and perhaps a sibling. I don't know how many people watched the game on TV, but would guess over 100K. There were over 10,000 fans at a West regional. I think the interest is generated in part because the structure of how the teams are formed puts everyone on the same level and because they represent their community.

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I get that they all have to play the same rules. That's not what I'm talking about.

I agree that the community of where the teams come from helps generate interest but it's not like any of these kids aren't playing on select teams to begin with. And the kids who show up to just play in the league get to participate due to the rules Little League has on playing time but they aren't making all stars these days.

What I'm saying is that 46/60 with max 225 fences and closed bases for kids who are all almost 13 is too small of a field. They have to have closed bases at 60' because no catcher could ever throw anybody out but by that age they've been playing long enough and should have high enough baseball IQs to play open bases. Every kid on the Pearland roster has been playing open bases since they were 9.

The big difference between select and league isn't necessarily the physical talent, it's the baseball IQ.

TarponChaser said:

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astros4545 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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TAM85 said:

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Little League WS is great to watch. All leagues and teams have to follow the same rules to determine the players on each team, and closed bases are just fine for 11 and 12 year olds.

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Disagree with this.

And 46/60 with 225 fences are way too small. Most of these kids are practically 13 and I've seen more than a few kids at 12 hit 250' tanks with wood bats.

A good select pitcher at 12 is throwing at least 65 and can locate a curve. That's practically unhittable at 46'. My kid faced 80 from 50' in 12U this past season and that's absurd. Rare but absurd. The equivalent reaction time is for 60' is like 105mph.

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65mph is very hittable for an all star team at 46 feet

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Not if they can locate a secondary pitch.

65 at 46' is roughly the equivalent reaction time for 95mph at 60' and all those Hawaii kids last night were sitting around 65-67.

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I didn't think they were blowing away anyone with heat

My 12 year old all star team has a kid throwing 71-72, he blew away all star teams with his fastball

Agree that the secondary pitch skills of Hawaii made them so good. I don't understand why ESPN is not showing velocity anymore

Corporal Punishment said:

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Teams with the moniker of "Taiwan" show up as late as 2004:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Little_League_World_Series

First reference to "Chinese Tapei" I found was 2009:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Little_League_World_Series

note the 2009 reference no longer uses the Taiwan flag.

A lot of politics involved with this issue as you can imagine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Taipei

Quote:

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The popular opinions in Taiwan have changed drastically in regard to the cross-strait relations and the nationalistic discourses since its transition to democracy, "Chinese Taipei" has constantly been viewed as anachronistic, aggravating, or even a humiliating and shameful symbol by many Taiwanese. An ongoing movement, the Taiwan Name Rectification Campaign seeks alteration of the formal name from "Chinese Taipei" to "Taiwan" for the representation in Olympic Games or further potential international events.

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It's been interesting looking into this. I just went back and rewatched intros and snippets from a number of championship LLWS games. The first championship game I'm seeing where Taipei was used during the broadcast instead of Taiwan was in 1987. What's also interesting is that they simply called them Taipei during that 1987 broadcast. I'm interested to see when they add "Chinese" to beginning of that moniker, but it was definitely there in 1995. Here are a couple of screenshots (one from 87 and one from 95).

astros4545 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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astros4545 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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TAM85 said:

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Little League WS is great to watch. All leagues and teams have to follow the same rules to determine the players on each team, and closed bases are just fine for 11 and 12 year olds.

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Disagree with this.

And 46/60 with 225 fences are way too small. Most of these kids are practically 13 and I've seen more than a few kids at 12 hit 250' tanks with wood bats.

A good select pitcher at 12 is throwing at least 65 and can locate a curve. That's practically unhittable at 46'. My kid faced 80 from 50' in 12U this past season and that's absurd. Rare but absurd. The equivalent reaction time is for 60' is like 105mph.

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65mph is very hittable for an all star team at 46 feet

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Not if they can locate a secondary pitch.

65 at 46' is roughly the equivalent reaction time for 95mph at 60' and all those Hawaii kids last night were sitting around 65-67.

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I didn't think they were blowing away anyone with heat

My 12 year old all star team has a kid throwing 71-72, he blew away all star teams with his fastball

Agree that the secondary pitch skills of Hawaii made them so good. I don't understand why ESPN is not showing velocity anymore

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Yeah, 71-72 at 46' is pretty unhittable even if they don't have a secondary pitch. At 50' 70 is tough but kids can time it up if there's no secondary pitch. Over 75 is pretty stupid. My son's team faced a kid throwing 80 this past spring. That's just absurd.

Going to 54' that's still gas but the extra distance to time it up and see it is key.

I love this piece because it really gets into the weeds on the data:

Average fastball velocity for 12-year old pitchers is 55 mph. Average for 13-year olds is 60 mph (81 fps). It takes .62 seconds for a 55-mph fastball to travel the 50 feet between pitcher's mound and home plate. A 60-mph fastball (88 fps) travels 54 feet in about the same time (.62 seconds) so, there is not much of a difference for hitters or pitchers who can throw 60 mph. If, however, you continue to throw at 55 mph, it will take .68 seconds for your fastball to reach the plate. This .08 second difference does not seem like much, but a 60-mph fastball will reach home plate (54') approximately 5 feet sooner than a 55-mph fastball. Hitters are at an advantage when facing blow average pitchers because they have between 7 and 8% more time to determine if the slower pitch is a strike and start their swing.

The faster you throw, the less time that a hitter has to evaluate and react to your fastball. An above average 13-year old pitcher throws approximately 65 mph and the hitter has only 0.57 seconds to react. An outstanding pitcher throws 70 mph and the hitter has 0.53 seconds to react and an exceptional pitcher throws 75 mph and the hitter has to react in 0.46 seconds. Twelve-year old hitters have only 0.43 seconds to respond to faster maturing pitchers who throw 80 mph at 50 feet, and it doesn't get any better at 54 feet.

12U vs. 13U

I couldn't find videos from the 1988 LLWS, but they definitely use "Chinese Taipei" in the 1989 LLWS broadcast.

Regarding the other conversation about pitching speed, good teams used to have several hitters that could hit pitchers under 75 mph. Once pitchers got above 75, even the best hitters started to struggle. This used to not be too much of a problem, though, when teams weren't required to play each player and pitch counts weren't tracked.

Bregxit said:

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astros4545 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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TAM85 said:

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Little League WS is great to watch. All leagues and teams have to follow the same rules to determine the players on each team, and closed bases are just fine for 11 and 12 year olds.

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Disagree with this.

And 46/60 with 225 fences are way too small. Most of these kids are practically 13 and I've seen more than a few kids at 12 hit 250' tanks with wood bats.

A good select pitcher at 12 is throwing at least 65 and can locate a curve. That's practically unhittable at 46'. My kid faced 80 from 50' in 12U this past season and that's absurd. Rare but absurd. The equivalent reaction time is for 60' is like 105mph.

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65mph is very hittable for an all star team at 46 feet

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Yep. 78mph equivalent. 75 @ 46 is 90 @ 60.

87 @ 46 is 105 @ 60.

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Nope.

75 at 46' is equivalent to 99mph. Reaction time for both is about .43 seconds.

65 at 46' is equivalent to 85mph. Reaction time is .485 seconds.

https://www.efastball.com/baseball/pitching/equivalent-baseball-pitch-speeds-conversion-chart/

https://www.efastball.com/baseball/pitching/grips/reaction-time-for-baseball-hitters/

If a kid can throw a secondary pitch for a strike catching up to a 65mph fastball at 46' is going to be exceedingly rare. Hell, a kid at 50' with a 65mph fastball that can throw a curve for a consistent strike is going to be elite.

The Washington Post ran an article in the last week which stated about 85,000 people are expected to go to Williamsport to see the LLWS this year.

The fact that Little Leaguers "get to participate due to LL rules" is a good thing. A boy or girl can pay $85, get a hat and a shirt, get to play on a team, play the Little League season, maybe make the playoffs, and may get to play on the all star team (because everyone on the team plays)- that's good stuff.

Little League has had closed bases for over 80 years, it still has closed bases and that is fine. I don't know what you mean by high enough IQ to play open bases, but there is plenty of time to learn about leads, trajectory of balls in the dirt, balks and pickoff moves.

TAM85 said:

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The Washington Post ran an article in the last week which stated about 85,000 people are expected to go to Williamsport to see the LLWS this year.

The fact that Little Leaguers "get to participate due to LL rules" is a good thing. A boy or girl can pay $85, get a hat and a shirt, get to play on a team, play the Little League season, maybe make the playoffs, and may get to play on the all star team (because everyone on the team plays)- that's good stuff.

Little League has had closed bases for over 80 years, it still has closed bases and that is fine. I don't know what you mean by high enough IQ to play open bases, but there is plenty of time to learn about leads, trajectory of balls in the dirt, balks and pickoff moves.

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Participation in Little League in the USA has declined dramatically. So what if 85,000 people go to Williamsport?

They could reverse the trend if they adapted.

The LLWS is barely "Little League" anyway because 95%+ of the kids parachute in for a season or two simply to make Williamsport and the kids you're talking about don't make all stars. Just because it's the oldest organization around doesn't mean much. Unless it's part of the college playoff, nobody cares about the Rose Bowl anymore just because it's the "granddaddy of them all" according to Keith Jackson.

If 85,000 people go to Williamsport to attend the LLWS and millions more watch it on TV, I wouldn't say no one cares. The LLWS is barely Little League? That is an odd take. And I disagree that 95% of the kids that participate in Little League do it to play in the LLWS. Most of them likely do it to play a game, be on a team, make friends or maybe because their parent signed them up for it believing it would be a good experience.

Little League is available to most everyone at a small fraction of the cost of select ball and a lot of those kids who play it become future baseball fans. Who knows maybe one day they will sign their kid up to play Little League baseball.

Bregxit said:

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Note my correction above. And the chart I made.

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I saw the chart. Are the corrections for distance reaction times or what?

TarponChaser said:

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TAM85 said:

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The Washington Post ran an article in the last week which stated about 85,000 people are expected to go to Williamsport to see the LLWS this year.

The fact that Little Leaguers "get to participate due to LL rules" is a good thing. A boy or girl can pay $85, get a hat and a shirt, get to play on a team, play the Little League season, maybe make the playoffs, and may get to play on the all star team (because everyone on the team plays)- that's good stuff.

Little League has had closed bases for over 80 years, it still has closed bases and that is fine. I don't know what you mean by high enough IQ to play open bases, but there is plenty of time to learn about leads, trajectory of balls in the dirt, balks and pickoff moves.

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Participation in Little League in the USA has declined dramatically. So what if 85,000 people go to Williamsport?

They could reverse the trend if they adapted.

The LLWS is barely "Little League" anyway because 95%+ of the kids parachute in for a season or two simply to make Williamsport and the kids you're talking about don't make all stars. Just because it's the oldest organization around doesn't mean much. Unless it's part of the college playoff, nobody cares about the Rose Bowl anymore just because it's the "granddaddy of them all" according to Keith Jackson.

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100% true. The vast majority of kids on these US LLWS teams play LL for this one season to try to make it to the LLWS.

Bregxit said:

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TarponChaser said:

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Bregxit said:

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Note my correction above. And the chart I made.

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I saw the chart. Are the corrections for distance reaction times or what?

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Yeah. My original post was based on an erroneous chart which after thinking about it seem wrong. Decided to calculate it myself.

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Did you do a straight distance vs. fps calculation? Did you account for release point? Like how the average MLB release point is actually only about 52' from home plate, etc?

I've seen some really complex figures that factor in average barrel velocity of a swing because the speed a hitter can swing impacts their available reaction time. Like, how a 12U kid who hasn't hit puberty can't swing as fast as a 12U kid who has hit puberty.

Also, any of y'all see this kerfuffle over the kids on the Iowa team sticking the white stuffing from a plush toy in their hair to mimic the Hawaii kid with the bleached white/blonde mohawk?

Some woke sportscasters made a big deal of them putting the stuff the hair of a black teammate and how it was racist and offensive when it was just kids playing and they cut out the video of him sticking it in the hair of his white teammates.

Seeing how the coach is featured so prominently in this image on FB reminded me of the folks on here calling him a jackass.



I don't know the guy, but any youth sports coach who features himself so prominently in a picture like this one is absolutely a ******bag.

I saw it. So stupid. Cotton was involved, therefore it must be racist.

I haven't watched much of the series, but this team from Hawaii is strong

Is the one star kid from Hawaii still wearing a mask in the field?

Bassmaster said:

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I saw it. So stupid. Cotton was involved, therefore it must be racist.

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Never mind that the whole team was doing it to mimic the kid from Hawaii with the bleached out mohawk. The parents & kids were fine but some woke, SJW nitwit sportscaster decided it was offensive and bleeds all over it by dishonestly editing the video so people get all up in arms over it because they're being manipulated by some pasty mofo who got picked last for elementary school dodgeball and hates everyone, including their disappointed father now.

Some lady tried to even say, "what if they were playing like gassing the Jews" or something to that effect. I mean, holeeee scheitballs! The absurdity of that leap is so giant it defies comparison or description (but I'll try)- I mean, Evel Kneivel thinks that gap is too big to jump.

Stop putting your adult hang-ups and overly sensitive BS on kids doing innocent kid things.

MSFC Aggie said:

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I haven't watched much of the series, but this team from Hawaii is strong

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They've got like 3 kids throwing 70 it looks like. At 46' that's absurd.

Am I the only one that thinks Hawaii will beat Taiwan for the championship?

TarponChaser said:

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MSFC Aggie said:

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I haven't watched much of the series, but this team from Hawaii is strong

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They've got like 3 kids throwing 70 it looks like. At 46' that's absurd.

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We had one kid in our league hit 70 back in the day. He went on to pitch at A&M and in the majors for several years. Cant be a bad start.

LSCSN said:

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TarponChaser said:

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MSFC Aggie said:

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I haven't watched much of the series, but this team from Hawaii is strong

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They've got like 3 kids throwing 70 it looks like. At 46' that's absurd.

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We had one kid in our league hit 70 back in the day. He went on to pitch at A&M and in the majors for several years. Cant be a bad start.

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You can't always tell for sure though. Plenty of those kids who mature early and throw gas like that never get much bigger or stronger. I've seen a whole bunch of kids that I grew up with and recently that were 5'10"-5'11" at 12-13 and never got an inch taller so the 70mph gas they threw at 12 or 13 tops out at about 78mph when they're 16-17.

Yep, the world we live in today. It's absurd.

Also, I saw the discussion about it on the Facebook page. Took everything I had not to respond to the idiots. I love the people on there telling the lady who started it "you don't have to explain why it is wrong." That's because they can't explain why it is wrong.

I caught the Indiana and Penn game yesterday and when did kds start to play with their pant legs hiked up to their thighs? The lead off batter looked like hey was wearing stockings and short shorts ala Pretty Woman.

Satellite of Love said:

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I caught the Indiana and Penn game yesterday and when did kds start to play with their pant legs hiked up to their thighs? The lead off batter looked like hey was wearing stockings and short shorts ala Pretty Woman.

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I don't know when it started but you see it a good bit these days. Especially at the college level. Aggie SS, Kole Kaler, is one that comes to mind.

It's a helluva lot better looking than the kiddoes wearing highwaters. Those pants just scream, "mom hasn't bought me new baseball pants in three seasons." Absolutely hideous.

Bassmaster said:

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Yep, the world we live in today. It's absurd.

Also, I saw the discussion about it on the Facebook page. Took everything I had not to respond to the idiots. I love the people on there telling the lady who started it "you don't have to explain why it is wrong." That's because they can't explain why it is wrong.

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The kid who the woke POS crowd tried to say was being victimized in the rest of the video that was edited out of the ESPN broadcast.

Here’s the context. Lancaster from Hawaii is a straight stud baseball player. All the kids are getting his autograph. pic.twitter.com/pEuu1R8h37

— Author, K.E. Ganshert (@KEganshert) August 23, 2022

Corporal Punishment said:

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It's a helluva lot better looking than the kiddoes wearing highwaters. Those pants just scream, "mom hasn't bought me new baseball pants in three seasons." Absolutely hideous.

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When I played there, they issued the uniforms to players (including pants). Some players ended up with uniforms that weren't exactly all that great fitting because they only had so many of each size. I would imagine this is why some players ended up with high waters. To make matters worse, all the uniforms were washed together as a team, so finding the same pants you had for the last game was always a challenge (they weren't marked with numbers or anything).

I now it is popular to complain about umps, but it is really bad in the LLWS. In the Pearland game last night, there were several called strikes to batters where I would rewind it and freeze pitch location and they were literally in the other batter's box. Not on the other line, inside the actual box. Then there was a call a few nights ago, bases loaded, hard it grounder to first, first baseman steps on the bag (called out), then fires it home and the catcher, with his foot on home, catches the ball and makes no attempt to tag the runner. Home plate umpire calls him out. The runner is looking at the ump in disbelief, coaches get involved and home plate ump consults with the other umps and they end up calling him safe. They ended up getting the call right, but how does home plate ump miss that call initially? Then there was the fair/foul ball down the line to end a game a week or so ago. I don't care if they are volunteers, surely they can find volunteers better than what they have.