So in youth baseball, even with most kids taking off much of July & August (HS showcase teams are an exception), August marks the month when kids in USSSA and PG "age-up" to go to the next age level if they're playing fall baseball.

(Here's the fight starter) It's also the Little League World Series and Pearland LL has made it to Williamsport once again. That's a great league which really takes pride in their All Star teams. However, I think this also illustrates why Little League, specifically the governing body Little League Baseball (not PONY, NCS, etc) is dying with declining participation rates. I'm not taking away from their accomplishments, especially since it's almost certainly the same with every All Star team which participated in tryin go get to the LLWS but every kid on their roster is off of 2 different select teams down in that area. Plus, at 12U in Perfect Game or USSSA they've been playing on 50' mounds with 70' bases and 250' fields for 2 years (11U and 12U) and regularly hitting bombs on those fields. Plus, they're playing with lead-offs, open bases, etc. Little League rules are 46' mound, 60' bases, and most fields are only 200' though the main stadium in Williamsport moved the fence back to 225' a few years ago because there were too many home runs.

In short the rules of Little League baseball make it too easy for these kids. Even kids who aren't ready to play select but play anyway at 9 & 10 are playing on fields the same size as these 12-year old kids. And over half of the Pearland roster will be 13 in the next 2 months. I'm sure it's the same for all the other teams too. I mean, 12-year old kids are regularly hitting nukes on 250' fields so these 200-225' fields are nothing.

Anyway, back to my boys. Going to be a busy fall.

The oldest started practice this morning for his 7th grade football team at school and is still playing fall baseball. With all the drama and everything else he still landed with the 13U AAA Wildcatters team. Virtually all the Wildcatters teams headed from 12 to 13U are turning over half their rosters. They had a pecking order where the top team had the right to pick first if they wanted to cut a player and replace them. Then the second team could pick the kid who got cut or pick new kids etc, and on down the line. My oldest's team jumped from AAA to major and added 6 kids. His new Wildcatters team is adding 6 new kids as well, including 2 kids from what was a 12U Major Dynasty/Wildcatters team in the spring.

My youngest is moving from 7U to 8U plus playing basketball a little later in the fall. He's joined a newly formed team that was started by one of his coaches in the spring. This coach is a good dude and buddies with the state director for a big organization out of Florida called Elite Squad. They've got a couple HS/showcase teams in East Texas but want to grow in Houston so they're starting young here. Based on what I've seen, they'd be similar to the Banditos in Texas when it comes to producing collegiate signees and draft pics.

Between all this, the fishing, and hunting I don't know when we'll sleep but I find real joy in watching my boys play and seeing their joy. I even enjoy just watching them practice.

The last several weeks have been a whirlwind of the merry-go-round of tryouts. This will be the first year my boys play fall ball.

My oldest finally gave up select soccer. He's always gone back and forth but wanted to play fall ball. We kicked the tires on playing both, but playing select level in two sports at the same time isn't really feasible, especially with the additional demands of two other boys. He's playing 12U with Canes.

My middle son had an organizational change from the spring and the head coach wasn't brought back, which I think was a big mistake. Despite being one of the best players last season (only somewhat biased opinion) he actually didn't get offered a spot. I guess his diminutive stature didn't impress the new guy, but he proceeded to make every other team he tried out for and settled on Lonestar. 9U so first taste of kid pitch this fall.

Not to leave my youngest out, he's not the athlete the other two are but he's taking a foray into baseball and trying out T-ball. God help his coach.

aggielax48 said:

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The last several weeks have been a whirlwind of the merry-go-round of tryouts. This will be the first year my boys play fall ball.

My oldest finally gave up select soccer. He's always gone back and forth but wanted to play fall ball. We kicked the tires on playing both, but playing select level in two sports at the same time isn't really feasible, especially with the additional demands of two other boys. He's playing 12U with Canes.

My middle son had an organizational change from the spring and the head coach wasn't brought back, which I think was a big mistake. Despite being one of the best players last season (only somewhat biased opinion) he actually didn't get offered a spot. I guess his diminutive stature didn't impress the new guy, but he proceeded to make every other team he tried out for and settled on Lonestar. 9U so first taste of kid pitch this fall.

Not to leave my youngest out, he's not the athlete the other two are but he's taking a foray into baseball and trying out T-ball. God help his coach.

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Is that Lonestar 9U on the Upper East Side? Some friends have their boys with a team moving to 9U up here called Lonestar or something like that. They're classmates with my youngest since he's now in 3rd grade but isn't 8 for a couple more weeks.

No, this is Lonestar Baseball Club out of Austin.

LIttle League is a dinosaur that will adapt or die. We play Texas Teenage because Little League is a dinosaur.


Practice starts Thursday for our 11u team's fall ball slate. They are playing double headers on Thursday nights in a local 12u league for Select teams and two tournaments, otherwise concentrating on football. Our goal is to play 20 baseball games.

My condolences to all of you that have to suffer through tryouts and deal with all of that nonsense. We lost two boys, one who needs to play at a lower level and another that is a stud in another sport, and replaced them with three really good players who have played with our boys at different times in different sports, including league baseball.

No tryouts. Invitation only. Love it. It is the only way to go.

We should be really tough this year.

agsalaska said:

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LIttle League is a dinosaur that will adapt or die. We play Texas Teenage because Little League is a dinosaur.


Practice starts Thursday for our 11u team's fall ball slate. They are playing double headers on Thursday nights in a local 12u league for Select teams and two tournaments, otherwise concentrating on football. Our goal is to play 20 baseball games.

My condolences to all of you that have to suffer through tryouts and deal with all of that nonsense. We lost two boys, one who needs to play at a lower level and another that is a stud in another sport, and replaced them with three really good players who have played with our boys at different times in different sports, including league baseball.

No tryouts. Invitation only. Love it. It is the only way to go.

We should be really tough this year.

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Wildcatters org is pissing off a lot of people in Houston but it's all AAA and major teams. And really just a few AAA teams. It's also funded- we don't pay for coaches, facility fees, uniforms, or tournament fees. There were something like 1100-1200 kids tryout for spots in teams from 8U-14U and every returning player still had to try out.

I know that up and down the organization, unless they were an elite team in the spring most ages are turning over half their rosters for the fall. They're also really pushing kids to play on grade level, so if you're 13U by age but a 2027 grad (8th grade) they're being pushed to 14U.

I don't know a ton about the teams from the west side of town but the N/NE side where Wildcatters bought the Dynasty and Gulf Coast Marlins organizations there are only like 3 teams without major roster shakeups.

Wildcatters Burgos which was the #6 12U team in the country in the spring. This was the ZT Elite - Burgos before they joined Wildcatters. I'm told this team is mostly staying together but they're going to play 14U instead of 13U.

I'm told Wildcatters Farr, which was the #10 12U team in the country is turning over half its roster with some kids who are 2027 being pushed up to 14U. This was Dynasty Black.

Wildcatters Ambres is turning over half their roster too. This was the Gulf Coast Marlins coached/owned by Chip Ambres. They were the #61 12U team in the country.

Wildcatters Ziegler was my son's team. We were originally Gulf Coast Marlins 12U AAA and they're going to 13U major and turning over half the roster which left my son out as he's not ready for 13U major.

Then I know Wildcatters Rusk which was the #10 11U team in the country in the spring only added one player. And Wildcatters Coburn was 8U in the spring but played almost the entire season at 9U AAA going 35-10 vs. that level is moving to 9U major and I don't believe they're changing any of their roster.

My son is on a 13U AAA team that brought in 2 kids from another Dynasty/Wildcatters team which played 12U major in the spring, A kid from the Scorpions who was on their 12U major team in the spring, one kid from the Cruz Baseball AAA team, one kid from Sabers Black, and my kid.

https://time.com/magazine/us/4913681/september-4th-2017-vol-190-no-9-u-s/

A really good article describing the current status of youth sports

docb said:

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https://time.com/magazine/us/4913681/september-4th-2017-vol-190-no-9-u-s/

A really good article describing the current status of youth sports

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Yes, we've all read that piece from 5 years ago.

I seem to recall you posting about your boy's path and it wasn't all that different from others on here.

Genuinely trying to understand your argument here against LL. I do understand what you're saying about the all star teams. We just finished facing that in Pony (14U). Our Austin Pony AS team made it to Louisiana (one step from the Pony WS) and several of the teams were select but allowed to play in the Pony AS tournaments. Which I guess is what you're saying is happening with Pearland.

Not sure how that's a knock on LL (or Pony) in general though. LL is meant to be rec ball and for the 99% of kids that play and don't make their AS team (or even if they make the AS's and that AS team goes out early) its exactly what they need. Not all kids or parents are cut out for select.

Example, our Pony AS team had a few scrimmages against a couple of local Austin select teams and we smoked them. Yes we were good (and many of our kids have played select too, full disclosure, but with dad coaches (me and my buddy) just to get reps). Anyway, the kids on these "select" teams we scrimmaged were just OK and many of them worse than OK. IMO they'd be much better off playing a rec level of ball like Pony (or LL when they were younger) and the parents saving the $$$ and the travel. So many select programs out there its become so watered down as to mean nearly nothing other than "my kid plays select not rec ball".

PONY isn't the same thing as Little League. As I understand it PONY plays bigger fields, lead offs, open bases, etc.

Little League Baseball doesn't allow that until 13U.

You seem to be conflating Little League with the shorthand "league ball." I'm not commenting on the quality of play in league ball be it LL, PONY, etc but the rules of Little League.

Basically the same thing you said on the topic about the Pearland third baseman. The rules of Little League have kids playing on a tiny field relative to their age/size and the rules water down the game.

Exactly


I don't think any of us have a problem with league ball. In a lot of communities, including ours, leaguer ball is important. I think it's really important at elementary school age to play league ball against other kids from your community. It's probably more important than Select ball.

Our problem is with Little League and their archaic rules.


Edit to add- I think Select baseball below kid pitch is detrimental to the game and would also argue that all kids should play league thru at least 10u. My now 11u son plays both. His Select team is really good but his league team the last two years has just been an ok team. But there is zero question which one is more fun for him. Last year when league started with the Spring preseason tournament it was all the talk across our elementary schools. Who is going to win. Who is going to pitch. Who is is still scared of the ball, etc. The teachers were all there on opening night, etc. Big deal on the playground. You lose all of that with select ball, and at that age the playground is where its at.

TarponChaser said:

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PONY isn't the same thing as Little League. As I understand it PONY plays bigger fields, lead offs, open bases, etc.

Little League Baseball doesn't allow that until 13U.

You seem to be conflating Little League with the shorthand "league ball." I'm not commenting on the quality of play in league ball be it LL, PONY, etc but the rules of Little League.

Basically the same thing you said on the topic about the Pearland third baseman. The rules of Little League have kids playing on a tiny field relative to their age/size and the rules water down the game.

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I do think you're right that Pony organization (Pepsi to LL's Coke) has more aggressive offensive rules earlier. Not sure about field dimensions or base path distances differences.

My boys played LL through 12 then two years of Pony 13&14 yr old years. I suspect loosening the rules earlier in LL wouldn't be a bad thing. We're on the same page on that.

USA bats change things as far as field size goes. Team USA 12u playing in Taiwan last week with no bat restrictions were hitting 350'+ bombs. The 200-225' fields the LL kids are playing on aren't really an issue. The games on TV this week have all played pretty fair and have been low scoring for the most part.

The bases and mound I somewhat agree with. Select is 46-65' at 9 & 10u. 50-70' at 11&12u. Coach pitch 6-8u plays on 60' bases that's these 12 yr olds on TV are playing on. Once again the bats make a huge difference on how hard the ball is hit.

There are some 12 yr olds that would be unhittable from 46'. Most aren't playing LL. Not trying to bash the kid from Pearland mentioned previously, but he played for a pretty avg 12AA team that played some AAA. The difference in high level select and LL is huge. Sorry if that makes me an ass for saying that…..

My biggest problem with select having gone through it with my son is it eats up your entire weekend. I'd bet not one of us on this thread over 40 years old ever played 6 baseball games in one weekend. It can be too much baseball which leads to burnout and chronic use injuries that we almost never saw back in the day.

PhatMack19 said:

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USA bats change things as far as field size goes. Team USA 12u playing in Taiwan last week with no bat restrictions were hitting 350'+ bombs. The 200-225' fields the LL kids are playing on aren't really an issue. The games on TV this week have all played pretty fair and have been low scoring for the most part.

The bases and mound I somewhat agree with. Select is 46-65' at 9 & 10u. 50-70' at 11&12u. Coach pitch 6-8u plays on 60' bases that's these 12 yr olds on TV are playing on. Once again the bats make a huge difference on how hard the ball is hit.

There are some 12 yr olds that would be unhittable from 46'. Most aren't playing LL. Not trying to bash the kid from Pearland mentioned previously, but he played for a pretty avg 12AA team that played some AAA. The difference in high level select and LL is huge. Sorry if that makes me an ass for saying that…..

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To your last paragraph, that's definitely true.

But kids playing both put in a ton of work.

My son played 60 games combined league and 10u AAA this year. The kids that played in the State Final were in the 65 game range. What I found with my boy Was he was 100% to start the day about half of the time, and when he was he pitched. And he had about 150 at bats.

No way you can play both at Majors level. They couldn't handle it.

There are definitely some kids who are pretty unhittable at the 46 or even 50 mound. My son and his team this spring faced a kid throwing 80 from 50'. I think the math on reaction time works out to like 105 at 60'.

And I get what people are saying about chronic use injuries and stuff but that's more for pitchers and catchers arms and knees, respectively. That's where having good coaches and being a good parent comes in.

Tom House has written a lot about how it's not that kids are throwing too much but rather pitching too much and not just throwing enough. He's a big advocate for lots of long toss. He also says kids should throw every day but limit pitching.

So my oldest played in something called the Middle School Matchup this past weekend. If you're unfamiliar it's a private, unsanctioned tournament where any kid who wants to can sign up and they're put on a team with other kids from their middle school/junior high. They have divisions for 6th grade (basically 12U on a 50/70 field), 7th grade (54/80), and 8th grade (I think they play 60/90). If enough kids sign up a school can have multiple teams in a division or if not enough sign up they'll do a "combo" team with kids who are generally in the same ISD and hopefully with other kids who will end up at the same HS.

It's kind of fun for the boys to play with their classmates. Sometimes it works out that a team will be mostly made up of a single select team but sometimes not. You can also get an idea of what kind of talent a HS program has in the pipeline.

But, because anybody can sign up you get a mish-mash on teams. You could have nothing but kids from a major team or you could have nothing but rec league kids. Or anywhere in between.

And the difference between kids from rec league or AA teams that should be playing rec and the AAA/major level kids really isn't physical ability. While there's generally a technical gap in fundamentals too it's not the biggest difference.

The #1 difference is baseball IQ and mental engagement.

As an illustration from one of my kid's games this weekend in the 7th grade division (they went 1-3; they had 4 kids off major/AAA and the rest were AA or league) and it's sort of a brag on my kid but not really because it was a routine play:
- runner on 2nd with 1 out, my kid is playing 3rd
- batter hits a chopper in the gap between 3rd & SS
- my kid takes the play and fields the ball, throws to 1st for the out
- when the ball is hit, the kid on second hauls ass for 3rd because he knows there's no play on him (I should mention he's a stud on a major-level team full of studs) with the ball hit where & how it was
- the kid on second never stops running around third and after the 1B makes the catch for the out at first he's just sort of standing there while my kid and the pitcher (a major-level player) are screaming at him to throw home where they would have nailed the kid trying to score from second but the kid on first (a AA player) forgot about or didn't think they kid would try to score and freezes without a throw so the run scored easily

The kid playing first was a good athlete and could play at a higher level without missing a beat from a talent perspective but he hadn't been coached up on the baseball IQ.

Anyway, the point isn't to speak poorly of dad coaches or league ball or kids who play select but shouldn't. It's to say that, regardless of what age or level your kid(s) are competing at teaching kids to have a high baseball IQ is critical if they want to play in high school.

Having a high baseball IQ doesn't take any talent at all.

Kids can be mean that is for sure. So can some of the parents. I always thought kids sports bring a lot of people together that otherwise have no reason to hang out together. Tell your son to not sweat it. Half of those boys will probably be changing his oil or tires in about ten years.

No problem here. I was dreading this day anyhow.

The kids aren't being mean...but it does sound like they are totally quiet to him. Love the boys too...one is my sons eldest acquaintance and friend (since 18 months old.)

And we are on the team b/c it is all my wifes friend's husbands coaching it. Pretty bad combination as they are the only people I see outside of work and family.

Both boys have started fall ball. Youngest had a tournament Labor Day weekend (ugh) and started a fall DH league this past Sunday. It's 8U-coach pitch so it's kind of all over the place. One second a kid makes a play that makes you go "HOLY ***** Did you see that?" and then they'll let a dribbler go between their legs. Plus, playing multiple games in a day can be a crap shoot, especially if there's a break in between the games and the kid doesn't get his juice box. At this age you really just want to see the kid engaged, have a good attitude, and learn to love the game. Also, with it being coach pitch you really want to see the kids not strike out at all- not quite realistic but a good goal.

You want to see them learning how to track fly balls, take angles in the outfield, footwork on grounders and transitioning to making a solid throw, paying attention so they know where to go/back up plays, and at the plate focusing on having a good fundamental swing.

The oldest played his first tournament at 13U this past weekend. They played well on Saturday going 2-0 but then lost on Sunday to a team that brought in 2 pickup pitchers from their "national" team to pitch on Sunday. Even then we should have won the game but baserunning mistakes cost us 3 runs and we lost 4-3. Oh well- lots of positives to build on and the kid hit .400 with a double and 3 RBIs in 3 games. He did make an error on a routine fly ball in the OF but then the next hitter he made a highlight reel catch for an out. I asked him after the game what happened and he said he just got nervous. I was really proud of him for not letting the error get him down and making a play 2 pitches later. Getting him to be more confident and play loose so that his physical ability flows is a big goal.

He didn't get to pitch though. This is basically a new team with 6 of the 11 kids being new additions so the coach threw the kids who were holdovers from the spring.

Been following these threads for the last year waiting for my son to jump into the mix. He's 8u doing a Sunday league as well Tarpon, we are playing out at baseball USA. What league is your youngest playing in Tarpon.

We aren't an organization or anything, we just pretty much grabbed our coach pitch rec league team from the spring, added a few guys for kids that didn't want to play and seeing how it all works out.

All our boys are playing football too (either flag or tackle) and they all voted to play this fall in a Sunday league just to see where they stack up. At 8u, our only goal is to let the kids have fun, and let them see a bunch of different game situations and see how they react. Went 1-1 the first weekend and the boys had an eye opening experience in their 2nd game against a AAA team that could absolutely mash. Was good for them to see that.

JmacAg07 said:

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Been following these threads for the last year waiting for my son to jump into the mix. He's 8u doing a Sunday league as well Tarpon, we are playing out at baseball USA. What league is your youngest playing in Tarpon.

We aren't an organization or anything, we just pretty much grabbed our coach pitch rec league team from the spring, added a few guys for kids that didn't want to play and seeing how it all works out.

All our boys are playing football too (either flag or tackle) and they all voted to play this fall in a Sunday league just to see where they stack up. At 8u, our only goal is to let the kids have fun, and let them see a bunch of different game situations and see how they react. Went 1-1 the first weekend and the boys had an eye opening experience in their 2nd game against a AAA team that could absolutely mash. Was good for them to see that.

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The 8U DH league is at Scrap Yard. Playing some tournaments here & there in both PG and USSSA. He's not doing anything else at the moment but will play basketball later this fall/winter.

Our older boy is doing both baseball and 7th grade football so he's exceptionally busy. But we're able to make it work because in our district the 7th graders practice in the morning before school and have 1st period athletics. So we have to get him up to school by 6:45 at the latest and they practice from about 6:50-8:50 and then go to class with games on Monday nights. Baseball practices are Wednesday & Friday. Makes for some long days for him but I guess it's good to get used to it.