South Platte said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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But who am I kidding, Holland should still always have a special place in Rangers fans hearts for 8.1IP / 0 ER / 7K in WS Game 4. Absolute gem.

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His work in Game 4 of 2010 ALCS vs. NYY was also huge. That gave us a 3-1 series lead.

Edit: This is where we are as a franchise. Completely hopeless, no developed talent, nobody in the farm system outside of 1 guy, no front office understanding of baseball. So we reminisce about games from 10+ years ago.

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The Bengie Molina home run is my most memorable moment from that game.

rbtexan said:

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South Platte said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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But who am I kidding, Holland should still always have a special place in Rangers fans hearts for 8.1IP / 0 ER / 7K in WS Game 4. Absolute gem.

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His work in Game 4 of 2010 ALCS vs. NYY was also huge. That gave us a 3-1 series lead.

Edit: This is where we are as a franchise. Completely hopeless, no developed talent, nobody in the farm system outside of 1 guy, no front office understanding of baseball. So we reminisce about games from 10+ years ago.

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I highlighted what is a completely uninformed take.

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the minor league system has definitely improved over the past couple of years on an overall basis. Leiter, Winn, Jung, Ragans are a few of the top ones. We badly need to hit on a couple of the pitchers for 2023.

No doubt there were some great 2010 and 2011 memories... But that Holland game based on performance metrics was probably a Top 40 or so World Series starter performance of all time.

KT 90 said:

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rbtexan said:

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South Platte said:

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Proposition Joe said:

---

But who am I kidding, Holland should still always have a special place in Rangers fans hearts for 8.1IP / 0 ER / 7K in WS Game 4. Absolute gem.

---

His work in Game 4 of 2010 ALCS vs. NYY was also huge. That gave us a 3-1 series lead.

Edit: This is where we are as a franchise. Completely hopeless, no developed talent, nobody in the farm system outside of 1 guy, no front office understanding of baseball. So we reminisce about games from 10+ years ago.

---

I highlighted what is a completely uninformed take.

---

the minor league system has definitely improved over the past couple of years on an overall basis. Leiter, Winn, Jung, Ragans are a few of the top ones. We badly need to hit on a couple of the pitchers for 2023.

---

Hit on a couple rookie pitchers for 2023?? More like 2024 (maybe) - 2027.

rbtexan said:

---

South Platte said:

---

Proposition Joe said:

---

But who am I kidding, Holland should still always have a special place in Rangers fans hearts for 8.1IP / 0 ER / 7K in WS Game 4. Absolute gem.

---

His work in Game 4 of 2010 ALCS vs. NYY was also huge. That gave us a 3-1 series lead.

Edit: This is where we are as a franchise. Completely hopeless, no developed talent, nobody in the farm system outside of 1 guy, no front office understanding of baseball. So we reminisce about games from 10+ years ago.

---

I highlighted what is a completely uninformed take.

---

Sure. We'll certainly find out. Just a few years ago we were loaded with can't miss guys like:

Gallo
Chi Chi
Odor
Guzman
Mazara
Tate
Profar

We missed on every . . . single . . . player.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2490930-ranking-all-30-mlb-farm-systems-post-2015-mlb-draft

Profar was the only one out of that group that was "can't miss".

rbtexan said:

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South Platte said:

---

rbtexan said:

---

South Platte said:

---

Proposition Joe said:

---

But who am I kidding, Holland should still always have a special place in Rangers fans hearts for 8.1IP / 0 ER / 7K in WS Game 4. Absolute gem.

---

His work in Game 4 of 2010 ALCS vs. NYY was also huge. That gave us a 3-1 series lead.

Edit: This is where we are as a franchise. Completely hopeless, no developed talent, nobody in the farm system outside of 1 guy, no front office understanding of baseball. So we reminisce about games from 10+ years ago.

---

I highlighted what is a completely uninformed take.

---

Sure. We'll certainly find out. Just a few years ago we were loaded with can't miss guys like:

Gallo
Chi Chi
Odor
Guzman
Mazara
Tate
Profar

We missed on every . . . single . . . player.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2490930-ranking-all-30-mlb-farm-systems-post-2015-mlb-draft

---

Stop moving the goal posts. You didn't say "can't miss guys", you said (and I quote), "nobody in the farm system outside of 1 guy." Your words.

Leiter is the only player I would rate as a can't-miss prospect, barring injury. But there's a lot of players in between can't-miss and bust.

Respectfully, you're too jaded about the Ranger's history to be objective on the subject.

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True, I overstated your comment. However, we were ranked #9 in 2015 and none of the guys gave us major league level of play. We're ranked #9 again in 2022, but this time it's different?

Yes, it is. Different players, and a different scouting emphasis.

Offensively, the Rangers went heavy on the big power-swing & miss guys (Gallo, Odor, Mazara). The past few years they've adjusted their approach and are scouting, drafting & signing guys who have better strike zone awareness and less swing & miss. Evan Carter is a great example, almost equal walks & strikeouts. Jung and Wendzel aren't high strikeout/low walk guys either.

The same change applies to the pitching. They had an annoying tendency to waste high draft picks on pitchers who projected to be back end of the rotation guys at best (Chi Chi & arguably Tate). They are drafting better arms, and giving them a consistent development plan that was completely absent in the past. They have some legit arms in the system now.

My biggest gripe about the Rangers farm system is that we seem to get hit with a lot of injuries. If you want to question their training/workout regime, I'm right there with you.

rbtexan said:

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Respectfully, you're too jaded about the Ranger's history to be objective on the subject.

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This would be me if I ever met Bob Simpson.

Schall 02 said:

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KT 90 said:

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rbtexan said:

---

South Platte said:

---

Proposition Joe said:

---

But who am I kidding, Holland should still always have a special place in Rangers fans hearts for 8.1IP / 0 ER / 7K in WS Game 4. Absolute gem.

---

His work in Game 4 of 2010 ALCS vs. NYY was also huge. That gave us a 3-1 series lead.

Edit: This is where we are as a franchise. Completely hopeless, no developed talent, nobody in the farm system outside of 1 guy, no front office understanding of baseball. So we reminisce about games from 10+ years ago.

---

I highlighted what is a completely uninformed take.

---

the minor league system has definitely improved over the past couple of years on an overall basis. Leiter, Winn, Jung, Ragans are a few of the top ones. We badly need to hit on a couple of the pitchers for 2023.

---

Hit on a couple rookie pitchers for 2023?? More like 2024 (maybe) - 2027.

---

You aren't expecting any of Leiter/Winn/Ragans in the rotation for 2023? I am. Winn is already in AAA now; after a full year in AAA he should be ready in 2023 imo.

Ragans/Leiter may need AAA for 2023, but it's not unheard to spend 2022 in AA part of the year and AAA for the rest of the season, then make the jump to to mlb in 2023. So maybe one of them is ready in 2023? Or at least ready by the all-star break of 2023?

South Platte said:

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rbtexan said:

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Respectfully, you're too jaded about the Ranger's history to be objective on the subject.

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This would be me if I ever met Bob Simpson.

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lol... I like it.

But also don't confuse my posts with defending our drafting and development - by all accounts it's been absolute dog ***** When you consider how much we were benefiting from the international pipeline, it looks even worse.

South Platte said:

---

rbtexan said:

---

South Platte said:

---

Proposition Joe said:

---

But who am I kidding, Holland should still always have a special place in Rangers fans hearts for 8.1IP / 0 ER / 7K in WS Game 4. Absolute gem.

---

His work in Game 4 of 2010 ALCS vs. NYY was also huge. That gave us a 3-1 series lead.

Edit: This is where we are as a franchise. Completely hopeless, no developed talent, nobody in the farm system outside of 1 guy, no front office understanding of baseball. So we reminisce about games from 10+ years ago.

---

I highlighted what is a completely uninformed take.

---

Sure. We'll certainly find out. Just a few years ago we were loaded with can't miss guys like:

Gallo
Chi Chi
Odor
Guzman
Mazara
Tate
Profar

We missed on every . . . single . . . player.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2490930-ranking-all-30-mlb-farm-systems-post-2015-mlb-draft

---

I count ONE pitcher amongst that bunch. Right now we have 3, maybe even 4 pitchers in our attempt at a "young core," depending on what you think of Owen White.

I'm not here to defend our farm or drafting strategy either. We are still littered with INF/OF guys who I don't think have a spot for the foreseeable future with guys like Seager and Semien here. But I think we are in a much more favorable spot than we were in 2015, with pitching being at the head of that. We're seeing it now: you're gonna suck if your starters suck

I would point out that one of the advantages of having a glut of middle infielders is that a handful of them can be used in trades without gutting the farm system.

I would like to think that CY has a much better grasp on things than JD ever did in that regard.

Five. Hundred. Feet. (Per TrackMan.)@Rangers No. 11 prospect Sam Huff connects on an epic blast for @RRExpress. pic.twitter.com/wQprZshljd

— MLB Pipeline (@MLBPipeline) April 20, 2022

Is that good?

Lowe triple play

9th error. That seems like a lot

Also worst team ERA in MLB and worst in the AL by a significant amount

6.08 next worst is 5.92 by the Reds. Next worst AL ERA 4.45 by the Royals

vander54 said:

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9th error. That seems like a lot

Also worst team ERA in MLB and worst in the AL by a significant amount

6.08 next worst is 5.92 by the Reds. Next worst AL ERA 4.45 by the Royals

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Terrible, but at the same time, it tells me it should improve quite a bit because that kind of deviation from the rest of the league is an outlier.

I agree with that. Hopefully it happens soon

I truly feel like we're going to challenge for historically bad pitching numbers by the time this season is through. Dunning just ain't it. He had some promise initially but I just don't see it with him

Entering the day Dunning had our second best SP ERA.

Absolutely terrible so far. At what point does Woody start getting a little criticism? I get it. The pitching talent level is woeful. We are playing from behind pretty much every night. That being said, just tonight we have seen an error on a routine grounder that led to an early run, half ass relay effort on a ball cut off in the gap that should have been held to a single, and bad base running. Just BAD baseball so far.

jtstanley4621 said:

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I truly feel like we're going to challenge for historically bad pitching numbers by the time this season is through. Dunning just ain't it. He had some promise initially but I just don't see it with him

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I don't either. Seems like a 4th or 5th guy in the rotation at best.

KT 90 said:

---

Schall 02 said:

---

KT 90 said:

---

rbtexan said:

---

South Platte said:

---

Proposition Joe said:

---

But who am I kidding, Holland should still always have a special place in Rangers fans hearts for 8.1IP / 0 ER / 7K in WS Game 4. Absolute gem.

---

His work in Game 4 of 2010 ALCS vs. NYY was also huge. That gave us a 3-1 series lead.

Edit: This is where we are as a franchise. Completely hopeless, no developed talent, nobody in the farm system outside of 1 guy, no front office understanding of baseball. So we reminisce about games from 10+ years ago.

---

I highlighted what is a completely uninformed take.

---

the minor league system has definitely improved over the past couple of years on an overall basis. Leiter, Winn, Jung, Ragans are a few of the top ones. We badly need to hit on a couple of the pitchers for 2023.

---

Hit on a couple rookie pitchers for 2023?? More like 2024 (maybe) - 2027.

---

You aren't expecting any of Leiter/Winn/Ragans in the rotation for 2023? I am. Winn is already in AAA now; after a full year in AAA he should be ready in 2023 imo.

Ragans/Leiter may need AAA for 2023, but it's not unheard to spend 2022 in AA part of the year and AAA for the rest of the season, then make the jump to to mlb in 2023. So maybe one of them is ready in 2023? Or at least ready by the all-star break of 2023?

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I hope they're in the rotation in 2023, but to think rookie starting pitchers are going to light the world on fire is asking a lot.

WestTexasAg said:

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Absolutely terrible so far. At what point does Woody start getting a little criticism? I get it. The pitching talent level is woeful. We are playing from behind pretty much every night. That being said, just tonight we have seen an error on a routine grounder that led to an early run, half ass relay effort on a ball cut off in the gap that should have been held to a single, and bad base running. Just BAD baseball so far.

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The pitching is what it is. Bad/mediocre arms are going to perform bad/mediocre.

But the errors to me are infuriating. Brought it up the other night with Semien vs the Angels where he got a fairly decent hop at 2nd base going to his left and it completely ate him up leading to 2 Angels runs.

Hitting. Pitching. Defense/Baserunning. You can be bad at 1 and still be an average -- even good team. But if you're bad at 2 of them it's going to skew towards a 70 win season.

I'm sure we'll hit a win streak, but right now every time we go out there I think at best it's a coinflip, but mostly it's likely we lose.

I'm there on criticizing Woody. He talks a lot about needing his starters to go longer but is pulling them in the 60-75 pitch range. Taking Perez out after four innings and 67 pitches was inexcusable. It would be one thing if you had a stellar bullpen coming in, but it's an overworked group of JAG's.

With that said, I think this team is a lot more talented than it's showing right now. They look like they're pressing. Of course, when your manager is saying in press conferences that he needs to see guys compete, that tends to be a result.

Banny was 100% meathead. Woody is about 90% meathead. How about hiring a guy that actually has it together upstairs vs falling for some of this motivational crap? That wears thin.

Jon Gray to the IL with a sprained knee

Wow

Yikes. We're gonna be picking at worst 3rd overall this year

Who you guys think we end up with at 3 this year?