Think Jeff Luhnow is lighting up a cigar tonight; wasn't Peña in his last draft?

I can't go to sleep. My kid has a baseball game at 10am tomorrow. Just went to set my alarm and my phone changed from 2am to 1am. I'm going to be less tired tomorrow morning than I thought! Go Astros!

My take on 2017 vs this year.

In 2017, the Astros were the team of destiny. It was incredible, finally getting over the hump, waiting my whole life it. Watching the team gel, not just after Harvey, but getting Verlander, seeing the confidence of everybody and the trust in everybody to get it done. That was a great feeling.

The 2019 season was the most disappointing for me. Astros were favorites to win the series basically from spring training. After picking up Greinke at the trade deadline, it felt like we just sealed up the series. We had one of the best pitching staffs every assembled in this history of baseball, we had dominating hitters top to bottom. Losing to the Nationals, the team of destiny, and going 0-4 at home was crushing.

This season felt bad going in for me. A rookie at SS replacing Correa. Verlander back from TJ, but you never know what you'll get. Bregman has been a bad hitter since the ALCS in 2019, and he started out the year pretty bad on defense also. After the all star game is when I started to realize this team was not just good, but great. We came in the post season playing well, and it continued. Beating Seattle was expected, but the way we did it was to be just a bit better. Curb stomping the Yankees is always good, and it was complete domination.

Coming in the World Series, we're facing the next team of destiny. Not great pitching and pretty bad on defense, but they were crushing the ball, and they were hot. The Phils stole game 1, and kicked our ass game 3. After that, the Astros said enough is enough, and basically imposed their will entirely for the next 3 games. The pitching staff allowed 3 runs on 9 hits over the next 3 games, struck out a record 71 for the series, and completely shut them down. The bats got it done and the trophy is back in Houston where it belongs. The last 3 games of this series was the Astros telling the Phillies and the rest of the baseball this is OUR series, OUR trophy, OUR year, and you can all go f*** yourselves. If you want it, come and take it. Until you do, shut the f*** up

Standing outside MMP right now. Got a high five from Yordan as he drove by! Mrs. Marvin got one from Dusty and Valdez.

Astros owner Jim Crane is hopeful he can retain @JustinVerlander who’s contract is up: “We’ll make the phone call pretty quick here.” pic.twitter.com/ykHXbbVt3G

— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) November 6, 2022

Seems like crane already has something up his sleeve on JV

agdaddy04 said:

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For years we'll be looking at Cristian Javier as the guy that turned this whole series around. Awesome

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the post mortem on this is going to be unbelievable

n_touch, I hope your are planning some 2022 Champions Yetis! Take my money now!

It's 1:15 in the morning. Can someone explain what the flying F Kyle Schwarber was doing try to bunt for a hit with 2 strikes?

I mean I'm still in disbelief somebody swinging such a hot bat and hitting seeds all over the yard this series literally just struck out trying to bunt.

I mean that's stupidity on levels that would only expect from Carlos Gomez

Helluva night, helluva year as usual. Love all of you. I gladly took my lumps in 2016 (the last season we missed the playoffs) for starting the season thread prematurely. It's been so much fun over the years being a small part of these threads and I believe that the window is wide open for this franchise. Aggies, Texans, Rockets, you better be taking notes. The Astros are putting on a clinic in downtown Houston!

Hat ordered, shirt ordered, flag ordered. Heading to MMP team store tomorrow afternoon hoping to grab an authentic WS jersey to go with my one on the wall from 2017.

Good night!

2017, 2022 WORLD CHAMPION HOUSTON ASTROS!!!!

Watching MLB tonight, Dusty gave the crew Ox Tails to eat lol

you really showed us who is boss

cone said:

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you really showed us who is boss

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Thankfully he will disappear until next World Series. Maybe he'll hit puberty by then…

Surprisingly great read on ESPN! DYNASTY!!!

Dynasty! Love 'em or loathe 'em, the World Series champion Astros are an all-time team

Quote:

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HOUSTON -- The orange-clad spectators beneath the roof of Minute Maid Park were blaring. The train above the Crawford Boxes was whistling. Around the infield, a small horde of jubilant players turned into a writhing pile of celebration.

For the second time in franchise history, the Houston Astros are World Series champs. This time, they got to win it in front of their fawning fans deep in the heart of Texas

For the second time in franchise history, the Houston Astros are World Series champs. This time, they got to win it in front of their fawning fans deep in the heart of Texas.

That part was novel, but much else looked familiar. For the third time in four seasons, the Major League Baseball season ended in Houston. The Astros' two titles have come in a six-season span, with the first the infamous championship of 2017. In each season between that title and this one, the Astros advanced to at least the ALCS, pushing their streak of appearances in that round to an amazing six.

Given these simple facts, one obvious question springs to mind: Are we watching baseball's newest dynasty?

"I don't think we see ourselves like that," said Astros stalwart Jose Altuve on the field long after the final out. "We just see ourselves as a team that cares about winning, that goes out there and plays hard and when it works, it is like tonight."

Altuve's modesty aside, the answer to the dynasty question depends on how you define the word, but you'd have to be a title-or-nothing absolutist to produce any answer but yes. These Houston Astros, champions of baseball, are a dynasty, and the reasons why go beyond a simple count of series wins and championship flags.

In truth, the dictionary definition of a dynasty has less to do with an uninterrupted tenure of dominance than with the concept of succession -- one group rules over all others, even as the specific identities within that group evolve.

In the compressed world of 21st century American sports, the Astros have achieved a version of this -- a six-year period of dominance that has featured a rotating main cast of players and executives, but which has racked up five division championships and yearly playoff runs.

Since 2017, Houston has averaged 98.4 wins per 162 games played. That's a level few others have reached during the divisional era. The Glavine-Maddux-Smoltz Atlanta Braves reached 100.8 wins per 162 during their best six-year streak. The Jeter-era New York Yankees peaked at 99.9. The Earl Weaver Baltimore Orioles got to 98.8 and Cincinnati's Big Red Machine of the 1970s topped out at 99.1.

The Astros' chief current rival for dynastic supremacy is the Los Angeles Dodgers, with 105.8 wins per 162 over the last six seasons. That's a level reached only by the dead ball era Chicago Cubs. But the Astros have two titles to the Los Angeles Dodgers' one over that span, they beat L.A. in their only head-to-head postseason matchup in 2017 and they own 52 playoff wins to the Dodgers' 40. Only the early 21st century Yankees have won more playoff games over six seasons.

This all sounds pretty dynastic. Nevertheless, what really marks the 2022 Houston Astros as a modern-day dynasty is this title team bears only a slight resemblance to their previous title-winning version. Only five members of the 2017 champs are still on this year's roster. The team's strengths and on-field style have evolved. The key decision-makers are different.

And, perhaps, the way history will come to judge this second Astros title team will prove to be very different, as well.

TO BE SURE, considerable segments of baseball fans will never let certain Astros completely forget past transgressions. That was evident throughout this playoff run, as even unknown rookies, like designated hitter David Hensley, became the target of illogical choruses of boos in Philadelphia during the World Series. No one really even knew who Hensley was, but he was down there, wearing that Houston orange. Boo!

But take a closer look at the celebratory pile after the last out on Saturday. Side-by-side photographs of that pile and the one after the last out at Dodger Stadium that ended the 2017 series would be illustrative, because so few of the young men depicted would be in both photos.

In 2017, Jeremy Peña was a 20-year-old standout shortstop for the University of Maine. No one knew he'd be a third-round pick the following June. No one predicted that he would become the successor to Carlos Correa, one of the most gifted two-way players in Astros history, and would prove more than worthy. Among other feats, Peña became the first rookie shortstop to win a Gold Glove, edging out, among others, Correa.

In the postseason, Peña was a pillar in the Astros' title run, hammering four homers and flashing his award-winning defense, all while presenting himself like a been-there-done-that veteran during his media appearances. He won MVP honors in the ALCS win over the Yankees, then followed that by being named MVP of the World Series.

"I never saw it as having to fill shoes," Peña said after Game 5. "I just had to come in and be myself, play my game."

What's not to like about Jeremy Peña?

"I'm just so proud of him," Alex Bregman said after the clincher. "He's learned how to deal with failure. It has never stopped him. He's always been a man on the mission since he got here, just to be himself. LCS MVP, World Series MVP, world champion in his first year. Pretty special."

Framber Valdez wasn't around in 2017, either. Back then, he was working his way up the Houston organizational ladder, struggling in Double-A. Now, he's a Cy Young candidate and a World Series hero.
You might hate the Houston Astros, but how can you hate Framber Valdez?

You can go through the same exercise with many of the younger core players on the Astros, like Cristian Javier, who did the heavy lifting in Houston's historic combined no-hitter in Game 4. In 2017, he topped out in High-A.

What about Yordan Alvarez, who hit a mammoth home run to give the Astros the lead on Saturday night? He didn't debut in the majors for Houston until 2019 and has quickly established himself as one of baseball's most feared all-around hitters. What about sweet-swinging Kyle Tucker, who debuted in 2018?

What about veterans such as lockdown closer Ryan Pressly or, for that matter, any of the pitchers? What about Justin Verlander, who joined the Astros during one of the most poignant stretches in franchise history?

For a time, it seemed that would be the legacy of the 2017 team -- one of inspiration. Verlander was acquired seconds before the waiver wire trade deadline that season just after the team returned to Houston after being displaced by Hurricane Harvey.

Verlander joined a team in the midst of bonding with a community that had barely started sorting out the aftermath of the storm. He's gone on to become a part of that community while continuing to pitch at a Hall of Fame level.

Really, any remaining vitriol toward the Houston Astros' roster is likely directed at the only three current Houston non-pitchers who were in the lineup of those tainted 2017 champs. That is: Bregman, Yuli Gurriel and Altuve.

Bregman has become a fixture in Houston on and off the field and has maintained his status as one of the game's best third basemen before, during and after the scandal. He's remained a constant even as former All-Star teammates like Correa and George Springer moved on to free agent riches.
But the story of the current generation of Astros can't be told without considering the long twisting journey of Altuve. He was there before the rebuild that created these Astros even began. He was there when the winning started. Heck, he's been an Astro for so long that the team was still in the National League when he began.

Altuve has been a target for fan disparagement with the rest of his teammates these past few years, all while remaining that same soft-spoken, almost shy athlete he's always been. The subject of profane chants and some of the loudest boos of any of the Astros, Altuve has still managed to put up All-Star numbers that could someday reach the level of Hall of Fame worthiness.

But if all of this was weighing on Altuve's mind after the win, he wasn't saying so.

"I'm just super happy right now and enjoying the moment," he said.

Altuve is once again a champion. Will things be different for him from here? Can fans outside of Houston, where he will always be adored, return to a place of appreciation for one of baseball's most unique talents?

THROUGH ALL OF this, the Astros have evolved not just on the roster, but in how they approach winning.

This franchise is an organizational baseball machine that continues to roll even after the scandal led to changes on the field and behind the scenes. James Click, the soft-spoken, analytics-savvy executive, took over one of the most proficient front offices in the game, and under his management, the Astros haven't missed a beat. In some ways, they've even iterated into a higher form, especially given the pitching depth that is the envy of the majors.

Dusty Baker arrived, then, too, and the beloved manager's very presence restored a measure of integrity to the Astros when they badly needed it. Now, in return, his talented club has given Baker his long-sought, career-culminating first managerial championship.
Not that he was worried.

"Worry just stops you from getting sleep," Baker said after Houston's Game 5 win moved it a win from the title. "And there's an old saying that don't worry because worry worries about itself. Worry does no good at all."

Through those additions and plenty more, the Astros have remained at the forefront of the baseball world because of excellence in scouting, development and analytic innovation.

It's a different team on the field -- the 2017 club was more explosive offensively, with a well-rounded lineup of skilled players such as Springer and Correa. In 2022, though, the team does less damage on balls in play, making them more reliant on the long ball to keep the scoreboard turning.

The previous Houston champs were a good, not a great, run prevention team but, thanks in large part to Click's focus on pitcher development, the 2022 club is absolutely lockdown, ranking among the elite in ERA, runs allowed, strikeouts and walks allowed and defensive efficiency.

It's a different route to the same place. The Astros have claimed this long-standing success by turning out one prospect after another and making targeted trades and free agent signings. They have fleshed out this style of roster rather than overinvesting in an effort to keep the old core together.

These Astros are not those Astros.

The ongoing iterative process of a great team remaining great while reinventing itself one move at a time begs the question: How long can the Astros be vilified? This has nothing to do with forgiveness or redemption. It's all about a recognition of a unique, high-functioning baseball machine.

"I think the guys who were here in '17 probably owe it more to the guys who weren't here," pitcher Lance McCullers Jr. said. "They had to deal with everything since they came to our team."

Does this championship allow the Astros to completely turn the page on the scandal? The truth is, they don't have to, because that happened a long time ago. All of the Astros, those who were there and those who were not, have heard it all over the past few years. It no longer really matters.

"We don't really care what the fans think," Pressly said after Game 5 in Philadelphia, where the vitriol was almost tangible. "Everywhere we go, we get booed. It's Houston versus y'all."

Amid all of the indignation and controversy and often overheated disdain, the Astros have remained just a baseball organization -- better than most, sure, and perhaps the best of all. In doing so, they have become what that 2017 team seemed very capable of becoming: A dynasty.

Dynasties can disappear rather quickly -- history is littered with examples of those which dominated for a long time and then suddenly vanished. It could happen to the Astros as well, but don't bet on it happening any time soon.

There is simply too much talent and redundancy built into the organization and too many smart people still steering the ship in the right direction, even with the immediate fates of Baker and Click, whose contracts are expiring, currently unknown.

Baker could certainly decide to retire so he can wait for the call next year telling him he has been elected to the Hall of Fame as a manager. But if that happens, the Astros will have their pick of worthy successors, perhaps bench coach Joe Espada, a respected voice on the team who has been passed over a number of times in baseball's managerial carousel in recent years.

The talent, the minor league depth, the financial resources and, perhaps most importantly, the systems (analytics, development, scouting) all remain in place. As long as that is the case, there is little reason to believe this motor is going to sputter. Love them or hate them, it's your choice. But the Houston Astros have built one of the most efficient baseball machines this century.

"I don't like using the term dynasty," Bregman said. "But we got a lot of guys that are going to be returning. So I think the window is still open."

The dynasty will eventually crumble, as all dynasties do. For now, though, the Astros have shown everyone, the defenders and detractors alike, that this organization is about much more than one tainted title.

The Astros are the champions not just of the season, but of the current era. They are, in every way, a bona fide baseball dynasty.

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Quote:

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After the all star game is when I started to realize this team was not just good, but great.

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combined no hitter at Yankees stadium in June

I remember thinking these guys are not ****ing around

Thanks again for all the regular posters on this thread during the season. The Yordan HR was the most electric play I have seen live at a sporting event. It was great to be able to take my kids tonight and see my first live Houston championship clinched in person.

I'll never get over 2019

those smug DC *******s

but to quote The Sting

"It's not enough, but it's close"

New song about the @astros from @paulwallbaby:https://t.co/r0Csc61mo3

— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) November 6, 2022

The off season thread better say WS CHAMPION HOUSTON ASTROS on it!

Luv you all.

sleep tight. don't let the bed bugs bight.

Man I am so unbelievably happy right now!! You can imagine how those of us that live on either coast have had to deal with non stop people talking **** to us and now we have this championship to say STFU, even though you know they won't. Now we can flip em the bird with a ring on both middle fingers!

Side note: die hard Astros fan and i probably saw about 90% of all the innings this season (live or recorded). My daughter's travel softball team that I manage had 2 huge tourney games with college scouts going straight at the exact time of tonight's game and I had to put so much focus on that I could barely follow the game and it killed me not to see it with full focus live. I absolutely cannot wait to get home tomorrow and sit down to watch it all and soak it in. I plan to sit in my hotel tonight and read the last 63 pages of this thread to soak in the energy from this win. I love this thread and it's been a hell of a season with you all!

this man is GONE pic.twitter.com/6UDfOQzzlj

— 2022 CHAMPIONS cal (@calliemelancon) November 6, 2022

Just got back from MMP. Unforgettable experience and easily the best grand I've ever spent in my life!

The sound when Yordaddy cranked that ball out……it was unbelievable. It had barely cleared the infield and everyone in that building KNEW it was out. That was a bomb for the ages.

I love my Astros, I love HTown, I love this fan base that has endured so much BS and worn the black hat with pride. Knowing that we'd be back here someday and that there isn't a thing anybody can say or do about it.

Suck it Jeff Passan

Suck it Jomboy

Suck it Tim Kurkjian

Suck it John Smoltz

Suck it Mike Fiers. Mostly you.

Suck it Dodger fan

Suck it Skankee fan

Suck it Horse Face Aaron Judge

I could go on all night