Lonestar_Ag09 said:

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Beat40 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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ttha_aggie_09 said:

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Machete isn't going to be the backup, even if we get Contreras.

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A top 20ish hitter in baseball wouldn't start over someone who's 37% worse than the avg big leaguer after a red hot 2-3 week streak?

Cmon man.

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Let's say the trade does happen, but it's an 8/31 trade. Does he still start over Maldy at that point where Maldy has caught 80% of the season?

In my opinion, I don't think so. I think the only way he starts, as catcher, is if the trade happens before the beginning of August.

If this hand issue with Yordan continues and Brantley doesn't return, I am not sure now much Contreras would start at all as catcher. I personally feel the Astros are essentially targeting him to DH and catch maybe 2 games a week.

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Well…..the trade deadline is 8/2 so I can guarantee he will play 0 games as an Astro if the trade doesn't happen before then

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Well my bad. For some reason thought it was still 8/31!

Beat40 said:

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Lonestar_Ag09 said:

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Beat40 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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ttha_aggie_09 said:

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Machete isn't going to be the backup, even if we get Contreras.

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A top 20ish hitter in baseball wouldn't start over someone who's 37% worse than the avg big leaguer after a red hot 2-3 week streak?

Cmon man.

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Let's say the trade does happen, but it's an 8/31 trade. Does he still start over Maldy at that point where Maldy has caught 80% of the season?

In my opinion, I don't think so. I think the only way he starts, as catcher, is if the trade happens before the beginning of August.

If this hand issue with Yordan continues and Brantley doesn't return, I am not sure now much Contreras would start at all as catcher. I personally feel the Astros are essentially targeting him to DH and catch maybe 2 games a week.

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Well…..the trade deadline is 8/2 so I can guarantee he will play 0 games as an Astro if the trade doesn't happen before then

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Well my bad. For some reason thought it was still 8/31!

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There used to be 2 deadlines. The non-waiver deadline around the end of July and the waiver deadline at the end of August. I think the waiver deadline got killed after 2018.

If the Astros continue on their current .667 winning pace this year, all the Mariners have to do is go 58-8 over these last 2 months to win the division. Totally doable.

Also at the Astros current pace and the A's current pace, the Astros would finish 50 games ahead of the A's this year.

helloimustbegoing said:

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If the Astros continue on their current .667 winning pace this year, all the Mariners have to do is go 58-8 over these last 2 months to win the division. Totally doable.

Also at the Astros current pace and the A's current pace, the Astros would finish 50 games ahead of the A's this year.

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At least the Ms only have 4 more against the Stros so that makes their record possible.

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Farmer1906 said:

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How sexy would this be?

Altuve
Tucker
Bregman
Alvarez
Contreras
Bell
Pena
Brantley
Meyers

Bench
Diaz
Gurriel
McCormick
Maldonado

Tell me that lineup wouldn't give up a ridiculous edge. Go all in. It wouldn't even cost THAT much to make it happen.

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Don't get me wrong, I find this lineup just as arousing as the next Astros fan. I've always assumed that Contreras would be out of our price range, but if he can be had for a reasonable prospect haul, I'd be game.

I wish I had a good basis to compare Contreras vs Maldy. Obviously Contreras swings a much much better bat than Maldy and thrusts us back into Lineup of Death status. That's a big check mark for the pro column. The cons seem difficult to evaluate though.

Can he call a game like Maldy? How well does he spot hitter tendencies in-game? If we end up yielding more of Maldy's innings to Contreras, can Maldy still add value to those aspects of the game from the bench? If so, that makes the Contreras idea more appealing to me.

On the flip side though, maybe Contreras is capable in those regards and Maldy can refine him/coach him up a bit. Then we pony up 3-4 years for Contreras this offseason and we've got our catcher position locked in for the next few years with him plus Diaz/Lee (I assume Lee might be part of a package to acquire Conteras).

Overall, I'm not sure how to evaluate that stuff. I don't know about Contreras' intangibles as a catcher. Inserting into our batting order in place of Maldy would sure be nice though.

But I don't see why Contreras couldn't start 1-2 games a week at Catcher, DH most of the rest and Alvarez mostly play LF? Also, Dusty loves to sit people so he'd help break up some of those lineups where we just have a black hole at 5-9?

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gougler08 said:

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But I don't see why Contreras couldn't start 1-2 games a week at Catcher, DH most of the rest and Alvarez mostly play LF? Also, Dusty loves to sit people so he'd help break up some of those lineups where we just have a black hole at 5-9?

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The problem with DHing him is if you have to put him at catcher you forfeit the DH.

EastCoastAgNc said:

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gougler08 said:

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But I don't see why Contreras couldn't start 1-2 games a week at Catcher, DH most of the rest and Alvarez mostly play LF? Also, Dusty loves to sit people so he'd help break up some of those lineups where we just have a black hole at 5-9?

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The problem with DHing him is if you have to put him at catcher you forfeit the DH.

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I also think we're going to want some flexibility at DH for the remainder of the season. Brantley might need to log some games at DH when he returns. If we get Bell, he might DH a little when Yuli plays 1B. Also, our current DH is pretty good.

EastCoastAgNc said:

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gougler08 said:

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But I don't see why Contreras couldn't start 1-2 games a week at Catcher, DH most of the rest and Alvarez mostly play LF? Also, Dusty loves to sit people so he'd help break up some of those lineups where we just have a black hole at 5-9?

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The problem with DHing him is if you have to put him at catcher you forfeit the DH.

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But how often will that happen? Just for a pinch running situation or if Maldy was injured it would just be for one game?

We'll be carrying 3 catchers in the playoffs so if he's DHing Lee will come in and catch if needed.

You know who were emotional leaders for the Astros? George Springer and Carlos Correa. They are gone, and their replacements are doing just fine, and the team is still winning. We will survive Maldonado going to the bench.

I posted it before, slightly in jest, but I'm doing it again - regarding how well Maldy calls games. Here are the splits for our starting pitchers broken down by which catcher is in the game. Granted, the sample sizes are small, but every pitcher except Urquidy has same or better stats with Castro behind the plate. I think we'll be just fine with Contreras calling pitches

Maldy did it for us in '19.

He'll have all of August and all of September to get familiar. This isn't that hard

Farmer1906 said:

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Maldy did it for us in '19.

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Like I said...Not saying he can't do but it's one aspect of making the trade that should be evaluated.

The only person in the Astros organization, imo, that would throw a wrench into playing the more productive batter....is Dusty Baker. Click has continually made moves to improve areas of weakness, and Dusty has continually refused to acknowledge them

Farmer1906 said:

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Maldy did it for us in '19.

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Maldy also caught for us in 18 so the transition was much easier

gougler08 said:

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EastCoastAgNc said:

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gougler08 said:

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But I don't see why Contreras couldn't start 1-2 games a week at Catcher, DH most of the rest and Alvarez mostly play LF? Also, Dusty loves to sit people so he'd help break up some of those lineups where we just have a black hole at 5-9?

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The problem with DHing him is if you have to put him at catcher you forfeit the DH.

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But how often will that happen? Just for a pinch running situation or if Maldy was injured it would just be for one game?

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This. Everyone who keeps worrying "what if Maldy gets hurt and we lose the DH", you do know it's not for the rest of the season, it would just be that one game. Are ya'll really against injecting another big bat into the lineup on the off chance Maldy gets dinged up in the 7th inning and we lose the DH for 2 whole innings over the course of 2 months?

Deluxe said:

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A couple things:

1) There's a difference between defensive ability behind the plate and game calling ability. I'm perfectly ok with the idea that Contreras can match (or even exceed) Maldy in terms of framing, passed ball %, etc.

2) I'm not saying Contreras can't call a game because I honestly don't know how hard he works, preps, what each Cubs pitcher thinks about him, how many games the Cubs won/lost with his adjustments, etc, but the reasons for thinking Maldy is elite go well beyond "trust me bro". Here's what Alex Cora said after the ALCS last year:

Quote:

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"They made adjustments," Cora said. "Their catcher is really good. He's really good. He did it last year. He's done it in previous years. He gets out of his script and that's something that's very impressive. Obviously, teams pitch to the blue and the red and whatever they pitch to the blue. He gets out of the script when he feels he has to do it.

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I suppose it's more "trust experts" than "trust bros". Here's another good article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/26/sports/baseball/martin-maldonado-astros-world-series.html

Quote:

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Valdez, who will start Game 1 for the Astros, said Maldonado had taught him how to pitch, and how to read batters' swings and reactions for clues of how to get them out. He said Maldonado had sat him down before starts to go over his previous game pitch by pitch. And it helps that Maldonado doesn't need a teammate or coach or interpreter to serve as a language intermediary on or off the mound.

"During games, he just comes up by himself," Valdez said. "That way others don't have to translate and I don't get messed up. And even with the gestures he makes behind the plate, I know what I have to do."

Before last year's A.L.C.S. against the Tampa Bay Rays, during which the Astros fell one win short of another World Series trip, Maldonado sat with relievers Enoli Paredes and Javier at the team hotel and walked them through the tendencies of each rival hitter.

Castro, who is in his 11th major-league season, said he and Maldonado had come up in an era of baseball where catchers sifted through their own statistics and video to prepare for games, compared to now, when teams have several people dedicated to producing detailed reports. He said Maldonado's preparation was "on another level."

"If we're on the road, I've been to his room and he's up in the morning studying," Kendeall Graveman said of Maldonado.

When the Astros are in Houston, Maldonado spends his time at home with his children, Graveman said. But when at the stadium or on the road, Maldonado is glued to the screen.

"If we're on the road, I've been to his room and he's up in the morning studying," Graveman said. "And that's also during the season, not just in the postseason. And it's something that no one notices if you're not inside."

When on the mound, Pressly said "98 percent of time" he throws whatever pitch Maldonado signals. Valdez estimated that the number was lower for himself. Graveman said Maldonado tells him that because he is the one throwing the ball, he ultimately has the final say. Whatever Maldonado can do at the plate himself is secondary.

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It's hard to put a value on that stuff. But there is value, even if it's not perfectly captured in stats. I think the analysis of how you weigh all that versus what Contreras brings is EXTREMELY complicated. Our baseball ops guys have given me zero reason to not trust them though.

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As you already somewhat said in an earlier post. Why can't he do that not as the primary catcher? Is he going to stop working and helping the team because he's the backup?

Keep in mind there is a difference in effort and value. I could spend 24 hours a day pouring over data, video, etc, and then some nerd could do the same thing better in 1 hour. 20 minutes.

Regardless of how this all shakes out, Maldy is going to be a huge asset on Joe's staff in a couple of years.