***Official Houston Astros 2021-22 Offseason Thread***

572,130 Views | 6776 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by AggiEE
The Porkchop Express
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AG
Well this news literally broke the Internet at my house this morning. Computer stopped working and been busy all day replacing it.

Twelve hours later, my takeaway steals from the movie "The Social Network" where during the deposition of Mark Zuckerberg, he tells the Winklevoss Twins, "If you were the inventors of Facebook, you would have invented Facebook."

Kind of how I feel about Carlos Correa right now. If he wanted to play for the Houston Astros, he would be a Houston Astro right now.

I'm not going to repeat what 50 other people have said today, but clearly he didn't get the mega deal from a team he wanted, so he took the next best thing, the deal that at a bare minimum gets him $135 million over 3 years, but also lets him bail after Year 1 or Year 2 for greener pastures if he so chooses.

Could the Astros have given him that same deal? Of course. But for once, I'm on the team's side of things for not doing it.

Why? Because no one player should be the bigger than the team, unless that player is on par with Michael Jordan and Tom Brady.

Carlos Correa is not bigger than the rest of the Astros, but if you sign him to that deal where he can control his own destiny every single year, that's the message you're sending. The rest of you multi-millionaires, you're under our control for 4-6 years as we pay you hundreds of millions, but not Carlos! Carlos gets to do whatever he wants to after every season. Maybe we're so lucky that he'll pick us again next year, but maybe he won't, and then we'll either have to restructure the deal to pay him even more money, or lose him, and the entire season will be filled with speculation of will he stay or will he go.

That's some weak sauce, assuming you aren't Brady or Jordan. That's telling Tucker and Bregman and Yordan and Altuve - you're all really great, but Carlos is better than any of you and deserves to be treated like baseball royalty.

Carlos is still young - he won't be 28 until almost the end of the season - and has shown more durability here lately than in previous seasons. He only missed 2 games in the mini-2020 season, and only missed 14 in 2021. Every Astro fan will miss his defense terribly, and his post-season hitting as well. He'll be our best shortstop of all time, and those of us pushing 50 might never see another Astro shortstop that even approaches his talent level. That sucks, but that's baseball.

More than anything, today makes me think about when Albert Pujols bolted St. Louis for Anaheim, 100% a money decision. The Cardinals offered him 8 years, $200 million, the Angels upped it to 10 years, $240 million. That was in 2011. In his time in St. Louis, the Cardinals won the World Series twice and made the playoffs seven times in 11 seasons.

When he left, their owner said that no one player was bigger than the Cardinals, and they would keep on putting together great teams and playing for the people of St. Louis. And they did, they made it back to the NLCS the next year, lost the World Series in 2013, and have made the playoffs 7 times in the 10 seasons without Pujols.

Of course, as Astro fans, we all know what Pujols' financial decision has cost him. He played in 3 playoff games in 10 years in Anaheim, all three losses in 2014. It took him getting released and then signing with the Dodgers to get back to the league championships series for the first time.

Granted, Pujols is not Correa. he was 32 (and possibly older) when he left for Anaheim, and his numbers were only "really good" not all-time famous like they had been in the NL. Carlos is likely still in his prime and barring injuries should be due a few more really great years. But the odds are those years will come without the long Octobers and the adulation as one of the greatest clutch players in MLB playoff history. He's cast his lot as a guy who wants the most money, not the best shot to win another ring.

The Astros are bigger than that.
jbanda
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1. Gonna be honest. This player move has bugged me more than any other. More than Beltran. More than Springer. More than Keuchel. More than Cole. More than Alou. More than Hidalgo.

2. Approx. $40MM under luxury tax. Is there anyone outside of Story the astros can still bring in for this season?
tjack16
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Here's an updated list on who is available


Obviously Story is the big prize still out there. Soler would be a good bat to get

As far as arms… Chris Archer and Andrew Miller if they are cheap could provide depth. But not much else



Also since some of y'all are crazy enough to want a guy like Trevor Bauer. There's a name towards the bottom that NOBODY on here should want
gougler08
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Soler + Story and nobody cares that Correa left…go get it done
Prosperdick
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jbanda said:

1. Gonna be honest. This player move has bugged me more than any other. More than Beltran. More than Springer. More than Keuchel. More than Cole. More than Alou. More than Hidalgo.

2. Approx. $40MM under luxury tax. Is there anyone outside of Story the astros can still bring in for this season?
Beltran hurt the most for me. Dude was such a stud and seemed to mesh seamlessly with the Astros (especially Berkman and their wives) but of course the f***tard Mets had to get him, which thinking back is probably why it did sting the most (it took a LONG time to get over '86).
MaxPower
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I'd rather roll with Peña than give Story $100M. Soler has some appeal but is a bad fielder. I dunno how you get him enough ABs.
KTAG05
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How much would Tony Watson cost? He was much better the second half of last year with the Giants.
BadAggie
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Correa played first close to full 162 game season in 5 years last season. Yes I'd rather he had been re-signed but we'll see what the Astros do now.
BadAggie
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gougler08 said:

Soler + Story and nobody cares that Correa left…go get it done


I can live with that - any decent pitching left?
Deluxe
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MaxPower said:

I'd rather roll with Peña than give Story $100M. Soler has some appeal but is a bad fielder. I dunno how you get him enough ABs.

Agreed. We need to get Peña and Meyers extended locks next year.
gougler08
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MaxPower said:

I'd rather roll with Peña than give Story $100M. Soler has some appeal but is a bad fielder. I dunno how you get him enough ABs.


I'm ok with Pena but feel like Story gives us a for sure answer at SS. Soler/Yordan could play LF at home rand then the other DH, that seems like it could be manageable at least
AggiEE
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gougler08 said:

MaxPower said:

I'd rather roll with Peña than give Story $100M. Soler has some appeal but is a bad fielder. I dunno how you get him enough ABs.


I'm ok with Pena but feel like Story gives us a for sure answer at SS. Soler/Yordan could play LF at home rand then the other DH, that seems like it could be manageable at least

Story is "for sure" to the extent that he's serviceable. I just don't see him adding a whole lot of WAR above and beyond Pena, and I think we have other gaps to fill that would return better potential to upgrade our team.

Gives us flexibility at the trade deadline. I just don't want to give Story some big deal he's probably looking for.

I'd rather upgrade OF or Pitching
Ag_07
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Well apparently Story is looking for 4 years. The Rangers are hesitant to give that to him.

Depending on the price I'd have no problem with Story for 4 years.
Taxman90
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Ag_07 said:

Well apparently Story is looking for 4 years. The Rangers are hesitant to give that to him.

Depending on the price I'd have no problem with Story for 4 years.


I'd do 4/$90 in a heartbeat.
bearkatag15
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W
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yes, 4-year deal for Story gets him off the books after the 2025 season -- that would be okay.

his salary would probably not interfere with extensions for Tucker & Yordan
Farmer1906
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AggiEE said:

gougler08 said:

MaxPower said:

I'd rather roll with Peña than give Story $100M. Soler has some appeal but is a bad fielder. I dunno how you get him enough ABs.


I'm ok with Pena but feel like Story gives us a for sure answer at SS. Soler/Yordan could play LF at home rand then the other DH, that seems like it could be manageable at least

Story is "for sure" to the extent that he's serviceable. I just don't see him adding a whole lot of WAR above and beyond Pena, and I think we have other gaps to fill that would return better potential to upgrade our team.

Gives us flexibility at the trade deadline. I just don't want to give Story some big deal he's probably looking for.

I'd rather upgrade OF or Pitching


Story's ceiling offensively is as high as Correa's. He won't be able to match the defense but he brings more pressure on the basepaths.
AggiEE
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Farmer1906 said:

AggiEE said:

gougler08 said:

MaxPower said:

I'd rather roll with Peña than give Story $100M. Soler has some appeal but is a bad fielder. I dunno how you get him enough ABs.


I'm ok with Pena but feel like Story gives us a for sure answer at SS. Soler/Yordan could play LF at home rand then the other DH, that seems like it could be manageable at least

Story is "for sure" to the extent that he's serviceable. I just don't see him adding a whole lot of WAR above and beyond Pena, and I think we have other gaps to fill that would return better potential to upgrade our team.

Gives us flexibility at the trade deadline. I just don't want to give Story some big deal he's probably looking for.

I'd rather upgrade OF or Pitching


Story's ceiling offensively is as high as Correa's. He won't be able to match the defense but he brings more pressure on the basepaths.


In Coors field

I think his stats will drop off, and I think Peña will do
The job just fine for much cheaper
Farmer1906
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I think your overestimating Coors and Penas offense.
Mr.Bond
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This opt out **** is cancerous
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


MAGA

MAROON
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These year one opt out deals are crazy to me. Don't blame the Astros for not agreeing to that kind of deal.
What do you boys want for breakfast BBQ ?.....OK Chili.
tjack16
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The coors field splits aren't a concern for me.

You could play that game with Altuve, Gurriel and Bregman too. How many of their homeruns to the Crawford boxes would be doubles or fly outs on other perks?

Story would hit well here
Ag_07
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MAROON said:

These year one opt out deals are crazy to me. Don't blame the Astros for not agreeing to that kind of deal.


Exactly

The team is putting their neck out on the line with the AAV but the player still wants the leverage to bail.

No thanks. Give something to get something but these players don't want to give anything to get those opt outs.

But at the same time if owners keep giving in then why the hell not ask for it?
tjack16
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3 years 36 MM is not bad.

Signing him would have been a luxury for depth but it won't make or break our season.
Ryan34
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I wish I had the same confidence in Pena that some of you do. Not saying he won't be a good pro eventually, but not sold he's ready just yet.
AggiEE
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Ryan34 said:

I wish I had the same confidence in Pena that some of you do. Not saying he won't be a good pro eventually, but not sold he's ready just yet.


Article on Peña

https://www.lmtonline.com/sports/amp/It-s-Jeremy-Pena-s-time-in-Houston-16606023.php
turfman80
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Glad the drama is over. Bring on the season!
Yeah, well, sometimes nothing is a real cool hand
12law
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Chrundle the Great said:

Nuke LaLoosh said:

Can someone please tell me if I should hate crane or Correa more?

My hatred is split but I really need to direct it to one individual.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Focus your hate on the Yankees

Why would the players association let Correa walk away from Baltimore's offer? That's the most confusing part about this.
n_touch
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Cause he's betting on himself and next year someone is gonna offer him 20yr/bazillion and all will be right
Ag_07
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I don't know.

Is he gonna have a better year than last year in a new place, on a new team, who's a noncontender with no protection?

It'll be tough that's for sure.
FredMc92
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12law said:

Chrundle the Great said:

Nuke LaLoosh said:

Can someone please tell me if I should hate crane or Correa more?

My hatred is split but I really need to direct it to one individual.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Focus your hate on the Yankees

Why would the players association let Correa walk away from Baltimore's offer? That's the most confusing part about this.
Because the idea that the player's association can force a player to sign with a team is ridiculous?
Thriller
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12law said:

Chrundle the Great said:

Nuke LaLoosh said:

Can someone please tell me if I should hate crane or Correa more?

My hatred is split but I really need to direct it to one individual.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Focus your hate on the Yankees

Why would the players association let Correa walk away from Baltimore's offer? That's the most confusing part about this.
Because the AAV and opt-outs are both player-friendly precedents to set.
Beat40
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Thriller said:

12law said:

Chrundle the Great said:

Nuke LaLoosh said:

Can someone please tell me if I should hate crane or Correa more?

My hatred is split but I really need to direct it to one individual.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Focus your hate on the Yankees

Why would the players association let Correa walk away from Baltimore's offer? That's the most confusing part about this.
Because the AAV and opt-outs are both player-friendly precedents to set.


Definitely something that could be used as leverage to get players to free agency earlier in their career during the next round of CBA talks.
astros4545
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tjack16 said:

The coors field splits aren't a concern for me.

You could play that game with Altuve, Gurriel and Bregman too. How many of their homeruns to the Crawford boxes would be doubles or fly outs on other perks?

Story would hit well here
Its not just homeruns at Coors

The outfield is massive
redline248
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Now that I'm back home from vacation and had all day to simmer on the Correa deal, I'm ready to move on to the lineup.

As someone said, I think farmer, I'm ready to move Brantley down. I'm also not going to write Bregman in the 3 hole in stone. Put the batting champ there and Bregman 5th until one or the other makes you change it. Yuli's ability to use all fields in almost any count is a real weapon.

Altuve
Tucker
Yuli
Yordan
Bregman
Brantley
CF
Pena
Catcher

Honestly, I also wouldn't mind trying Tucker at leadoff to put Yordan 3rd. I don't think that's ideal for Tucker, though.

If you get Story, then I'll reassess.
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