Jake's comment about catching blame had they lost instead despite getting pulled after 5 explained his frustration well.

htxag09 said:

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What did dusty say to call him out?

Also, he's paid a professional athletes salary to be a professional athlete. Part of that is shutting your mouth when things aren't going your way and not bringing drama into a playoff teams clubhouse. Especially when you're not performing.

And back to pulling him. This is the 5th inning. Pitch count be damned. When a starter has a history of not being able to go through the lineup 3 times and gets hit hard in the 5th, he doesn't deserve the 6th. End of story.

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Yep, not about results, it's about the process. How many times have we heard that with Jimbo? Same **** here. Hard hit balls will find the right launch angle eventually.

There are other metrics other than getting outs and sounds like Jake isn't open-minded enough to consider any of them.

W said:

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there might be something else at work here too...

checking online...Odorizzi's 2023 player option (and Astros buyout) is heavily loaded with performance incentives...based upon starts and innings pitched.

right now with only 94 innings pitched...he's not in range for the bonuses

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Again, ego getting in the way of success. The best approach to getting more innings isn't to ***** publicly. It is to find a way to improve your third time through the order.

We have 7 guys who can start. I feel like odorizzi is 7th on that list. Javier hasn't been great but I think he would be better than odo if he could get into the rotation regularly. Even then, Javier would be 6th. I have a hard time seeing Odo being a part of this team if he becomes a distraction (whether it is his fault or not). Too much potential for this team to win it all to let a beef between the manager and odo impact team chemistry.

SW-14 said:

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What did Dusty say?

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I'd have to go back and get the exact quotes, but it was essentially given his past history I didn't want to put him out there and we've been trying to get him to go longer but it hasn't worked.

It's all true and reasonable - but, it's also a verbalization of the lack of trust in Odo he has and he announced it to the world.

Then Chandler used the exact wording Dusty said in his first question to Odo which got the I think it's BS response.

That's not airing dirty laundry or anything about "trust". That's a sound decision-making process (one of Dusty's few). Would Dusty denying it be better? No.

There's only one person to blame, but Odorizzi just can't see it.

Buck Compton said:

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That's not airing dirty laundry or anything about "trust". That's a sound decision-making process (one of Dusty's few). Would Dusty denying it be better? No.

There's only one person to blame, but Odorizzi just can't see it.

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I don't disagree with Dusty making the decision. Yes, Dusty answering the question with tact does make it better. Instead he chose to give the media the reason before talking to his player. I agree with you it's a two way street, but in game or directly after the game, in my opinion, it's on the decision maker to initiate the discussion.

Again, go look at Odo's past interviews after bad outings and see what he's said to see if he can't see where his failings are.

Sad to see our win being soured by Odor's salty comments. He should have kept that **** behind closed doors it has no business being aired out in public.

If the stats show you are effective in 5 innings but suck ****ing dick after that, then be the bigger man, own up to it, and be an effective 5 inning pitcher rather than an ineffective 6 inning pitcher. There's nothing wrong with putting out a solid 5. And if the bullpen blows it - that's on them, not you.

This guy had so many chances to get more innings and blew all of them. Better to be a quality, well paid 5 inning pitcher than a guy that has no chance of signing another big contract ever again.

Odorizzi can eat a dick and I won't give two ****s if he never pitches another inning again this year.

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Dusty answering the question with tact does make it better

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How should he have answered it?

Did Odo even hear his answer, or just going off what McTaggart asked him?


Odo's frustration is understandable. However, he handled his frustration like a teenage girl. Vent, then refuse to talk about, refuse to accept any blame and then storm off.

If the comments about bonuses are on, O has something to be concerned as much as I love the Astros as an organization they are dirty mother****ers when it come to contracts, just ask George. Sure it's what best for the organization but not what's best for the individual player.

Also this is on Dusty, if you are only going to let a guy go through the lineup 2x you tell him that up front. O seems honest, fiery and is probably not deferential to authority. He probably would have said the same thing to Dusty but my guess is Dusty didn't tell him because he didn't want to deal with it. Mctaggert knew that and that's why he asked

Also did Yuli miss 3rd on the game winner not that it matters

I don't see it as ego. I see it as catching a competitive person after the game and framing it in terms of how his manager doesn't have confidence the third time through. Couple that with contract money (which is why we all work) and maybe some adrenaline and you have a off the cuff response. I don't blame him and I don't blame Dusty. It's just a competitive environment.

Yeah. I think it's mostly a nothing burger. It's a long 162 game season with competitive people and **** happens.

Wow what a morning catch-up this was. Saw so many replies and thought for sure everyone was discussing the walk off...Nope.

Look this is obvious to me that this was botched on both sides. Dusty is a POS for throwing Odo under the bus and not addressing this with him personally. Odo was out of line taking this public and going off in a PC.

Odd thing is I'm not convinced Click and the FO is gonna have Dusty's back and do something with Odo. It'll be interesting for sure. One thing I do know is I don't like this going down with 24 games left and the team ramping up for the postseason. Not good timing.

I dont think Jake was going to make the postseason roster anyways based on guys coming back. Had an outside chance of being in the ALCS due to 7 game series and you need the arms.

But not anymore. I'd be shocked now to see his name

I wasn't talking about the decision to pull him. I was more referencing how they address the public back and forth between Dusty and Odo particularly taking some kind of action like releasing Odo or something along those lines.

Kinda like what we saw with Giles getting traded and whoever it was that threw at a player after AJ told him not to then got demoted immediately and we never saw again.

There's been some smoke about Dusty and the FO not seeing eye to eye and it's been my speculation that their relationship is strained. Hell it's been my speculation that Dusty lost the clubhouse a while ago and this could be that boiling over. But that's just my guess. No real evidence.

BMX Bandit said:

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Quote:

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Dusty answering the question with tact does make it better

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How should he have answered it?

Did Odo even hear his answer, or just going off what McTaggart asked him?


Odo's frustration is understandable. However, he handled his frustration like a teenage girl. Vent, then refuse to talk about, refuse to accept any blame and then storm off.

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Dusty could have said I haven't had a chance to talk to Odo about it yet and I felt it was the right move.

I thought it was Chandler who asked the first question, and if I'm remembering correctly, the question was along the lines of "Dusty said he pulled you tonight based on not being able to go long in the past. What do you think of that?" That's the question Odo responded to I think it's BS.

Again, I think the decision made sense, but at least talk to your guy in the 5 remaining innings during the game or immediately after before you tell the media.

I absolutely think Odo should not have said most of that stuff publicly.

Here's my question for you? What blame should Odo have accepted last night? As I've said multiple times, Odo has been extremely honest with the media and owned up to every bad start he had. Last night he's got 66 pitches at the end of the 5th. He's a MLB vet who believes he can get guys out at that point. Almost every single guy would have been run out there in the 6th, even if it was on short leash. There is no blame for him to accept from last night.

The only reason I'm defending him is because the dudes been about an open book as one can possibly be as a professional athlete and everyone seems to believe he's some egomaniac who only cares about himself based on a some justified frustration from last night. I just think he's not being given a fair shake for his response in the heat of the moment. I also think it's ridiculous to tell an ultra competitive MLB player they shouldn't be frustrated they got pulled in the 5th inning after throwing 66 pitches, regardless of the stats.

Keeper of The Spirits said:

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If the comments about bonuses are on, O has something to be concerned as much as I love the Astros as an organization they are dirty mother****ers when it come to contracts, just ask George. Sure it's what best for the organization but not what's best for the individual player.

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Ag_07 said:

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For the record here's what Dusty said in the PC

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"I've tried to take him past that point, but it seems like something always happens at that point," Astros manager Dusty Baker said. "When things keep recurring at the same time of the game, then it's time for us and everyone to face the music. That's maybe that's how it is, at least for now.

"We don't have time to experiment too much more during the season. It gets to that point. This is the second or third time in a row when he's been dealing early and then all of a sudden, something happens. I know he's not crazy about coming out. We're not crazy about taking him out. But we're in a pennant race and have to do what we have to do."

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Add in the fact that he allegedly didn't talk it over with Odo that that was the plan and that's not really handled very well on his part.

Ask yourself this...Would AJ have handle it that way?

And honestly I think it's pretty ironic Dusty is talking about being in a pennant race and doing what you have to do yet he benches Jake Meyers so he can get Chas some ABs.

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And again, everything Dusty said is correct. I'm not even arguing Dusty should have left him in. Just talk to your player who you know is frustrated about it before you give that answer and know he's going to be asked about your response. Odo might have handled himself better as a result.

Also, I don't think this will affect the clubhouse at all.

I have so many responses but I'm not going to go back in time and reply to them all.

But in general:
-Get better at pitching the 6th/3rd time through...how if your in the best situation of the year and you get pulled.
-Odo was just answering the questions so no he isn't going to go in to a long diatribe answering "so that makes him look like he's just b**ching and venting"
-Dusty as a manager for this long shouldn't be this bad at diplomatically answering questions
-Everyone on here complains they don't get real answers or real responses to media, then when we do they all jump the guy for being unprofessional
-Odo is a veteran and maybe he was sick of some of the BS his manager says and how he treats his own players and decided he'd had enough
-None of this occurs if Dusty says "the analytics show us that were better off going to the bullpen" instead of saying he doesn't trust his guy there...yall even said it was an analytics no brainer THEN SAY THAT
-The organization will be in a very hard place if they punish Odo here, that's a great way to show you don't support your guys or support veterans and therefore no one wants to come sign to play here.


But most importantly....How about that Breggy bomb to tie it, it was really nice watching him pimp those first few steps on a no doubter, did anyone calculate that no doubter percentage?

How about Carlos feeling sexy and demolishing that ball on a line... I didnt go back and slow it down but I think he hit it so hard the right fielder actually came in his first few steps before he realized it was a laser beam.

This is one of the few times I dont blame Dusty for making the decision he made. Odorizzi is just not as good as he thinks he is. His overall season numbers prove that. The fact that he only gave up 2 runs in 5 innings is pretty much cause for a parade with how he's pitched overall this year.

The only thing that seems to be working for Odorizzi's argument is if they aren't communicating with him about his role.

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What blame should Odo have accepted last night?

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none. He pitched a good game. It was just time for him to come out. there is no reason to blame him for anything, and I haven't suggested he should be blamed for anything other than a whiney press conference.

His response should have been "yes, its very frustrating, but we are in a pennant race and sometimes decisions get made we don't like"

gotcha. I don't think this is a big enough thing for Odo to be shown the door.

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Add in the fact that he allegedly didn't talk it over with Odo that that was the plan and that's not really handled very well on his part.

Ask yourself this...Would AJ have handle it that way?

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no one thinks Dusty is better than AJ, but AJ is not infallible. Grienke and Cole sure didn't seem to be big fans.

Again, how do you know the plan was to take him out all along? I guarantee you everyone on this thread woudl have crapped their pants if he came back in the 6th given how he looked in the 5th

Completely agree

I don't disagree with the decision at all or with what he said. Doesn't mean he should say it publicly like that.

I just think it was mishandled pre and post decision by both sides. Everything could have and should have been handled in the clubhouse and not in front of a mic at a zoom PC.