Right now he's a 4/5 guy. And better stuff than most any 4/5 in the league, but his playoff role should be bullpen mostly and we should all have given up on any potential of him anchoring a rotation.Nuke LaLoosh said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:redline248 said:
Everyone piling on McCullers for throwing the fastball needs to direct some of that blame to Maldy, who called for it twice.
I'm provably one of the biggest LMJ fans on here, but Maldy called curve and I think Lance shook
Him off so Maldy called heater.
Someday the rest of you will come around to realize that lance does not have the stuff to be a starting pitcher on this team.
I mean this purely mentally... he obviously has the physical talent.
****2020 Official Houston Astros We Don't Have To Cheat To Beat You Season Thread****
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Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:redline248 said:
Everyone piling on McCullers for throwing the fastball needs to direct some of that blame to Maldy, who called for it twice.
I'm provably one of the biggest LMJ fans on here, but Maldy called curve and I think Lance shook
Him off so Maldy called heater.
Someday the rest of you will come around to realize that lance does not have the stuff to be a starting pitcher on this team.
He's been a starter for 5 seasons. Looks like you're the one who needs to come around.
When we needed him the most, he grooved a fastball to the hottest hitter in the game. Mentally, the guy just doesn't have it. #4 starter at best. Ideally long relief.
Hurts to lose, but I'd say we over performed considering the losses this season. And if a month ago I'd have said we were one win away from the world series I'd have been called crazy
Go astros!
Go astros!
https://ts.la/eric59704
Buck Compton said:
Next year is probably Framber, Greinke, Urquidy, Lance, ???? Right now with "????" likely being Javier. That's not elite, but it's at least a bit above average.
Bullpen will be above average.
Big question is what our outfield looks like and if Alvarez can be healthy.
Pitching next year could be pretty good or take a turn for the worse. Never know with all the really young pitchers.
bluefire579 said:I think out of everyone, Bregman was hurt the most by the short season. Even ignoring the fact that he missed a good chunk with injury, he has traditionally been a guy who starts slow and eventually gets the snowball rolling downhill. This isn't making excuses for him; the guy would be a perennial MVP winner if he ever could start a season like he ends it, but this season, short as it was, his tendencies harmed us the most this post season, and when he needed to find a way to get past it, he failed miserably. I hope he works this offseason, and finds a way to get past whatever block he has in the early season. While we likely won't ever see a season like this again, it's still important that we can depend on him throughout the year, not just after the team has played well into the third month.Nuke LaLoosh said:
Sarcastic shocker: lance sucked
Non sarcastic shocker: Bregman was the worst postseason player on our team.
Yeah boo hoo. He shat the bed this entire postseason. I won't forget it anytime soon and neither should any of you.
agdaddy04 said:Marvin said:
McCullers throwing a fastball to Arozarena in the first inning was the ballgame. I will never understand that stupidity. Just galacticly dumb.
Still should've been able to score more than 2 runs. That's a disappointment with all of the opportunities.
Should have, yeah
But having the early momentum led to our hitters pressing rather than being patient, which never works
The home run basically demolished our team psychologically and we started doing bad things that teams coming back from a deficit don't do
Buck Compton said:Right now he's a 4/5 guy. And better stuff than most any 4/5 in the league, but his playoff role should be bullpen mostly and we should all have given up on any potential of him anchoring a rotation.Nuke LaLoosh said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:redline248 said:
Everyone piling on McCullers for throwing the fastball needs to direct some of that blame to Maldy, who called for it twice.
I'm provably one of the biggest LMJ fans on here, but Maldy called curve and I think Lance shook
Him off so Maldy called heater.
Someday the rest of you will come around to realize that lance does not have the stuff to be a starting pitcher on this team.
I mean this purely mentally... he obviously has the physical talent.
While that's true, the bullpen gets a shot in the arm of veteran presence that wasn't there this year. Starting pitching is our question mark.MosesHallRAB04 said:Buck Compton said:
Next year is probably Framber, Greinke, Urquidy, Lance, ???? Right now with "????" likely being Javier. That's not elite, but it's at least a bit above average.
Bullpen will be above average.
Big question is what our outfield looks like and if Alvarez can be healthy.
Pitching next year could be pretty good or take a turn for the worse. Never know with all the really young pitchers.
So if george and mike walk what free agent options are we looking at? We have no outfield depth in the minors right?
And Bregman is a little concerning. His performance wasn't just bad, it was abysmal
For a Looong time
What happened to the 2017-2019 Bregman that had so much confidence?
He looked defeated
For a Looong time
What happened to the 2017-2019 Bregman that had so much confidence?
He looked defeated
Big key outside of outfield is finding a certain inning eater to give more flexibility with some of our fringe starters like Javier. Guy like Mike Minor could be a good candidate.
Bregman had a rough year.
and it's time to put Correa in the 3 or 4 hole permanently...and see what he can do
and it's time to put Correa in the 3 or 4 hole permanently...and see what he can do
AggiEE said:
And Bregman is a little concerning. His performance wasn't just bad, it was abysmal
For a Looong time
What happened to the 2017-2019 Bregman that had so much confidence?
He looked defeated
His shlt was all mental too. He completely lost his edge.
Yet he hasn't any other time in an Astros uniform. Until he does it again you should consider it an aberration due to how this season played out and nothing more. There is nothing in his history to suggest otherwise.Nuke LaLoosh said:bluefire579 said:I think out of everyone, Bregman was hurt the most by the short season. Even ignoring the fact that he missed a good chunk with injury, he has traditionally been a guy who starts slow and eventually gets the snowball rolling downhill. This isn't making excuses for him; the guy would be a perennial MVP winner if he ever could start a season like he ends it, but this season, short as it was, his tendencies harmed us the most this post season, and when he needed to find a way to get past it, he failed miserably. I hope he works this offseason, and finds a way to get past whatever block he has in the early season. While we likely won't ever see a season like this again, it's still important that we can depend on him throughout the year, not just after the team has played well into the third month.Nuke LaLoosh said:
Sarcastic shocker: lance sucked
Non sarcastic shocker: Bregman was the worst postseason player on our team.
Yeah boo hoo. He shat the bed this entire postseason. I won't forget it anytime soon and neither should any of you.
Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:redline248 said:
Everyone piling on McCullers for throwing the fastball needs to direct some of that blame to Maldy, who called for it twice.
I'm provably one of the biggest LMJ fans on here, but Maldy called curve and I think Lance shook
Him off so Maldy called heater.
Someday the rest of you will come around to realize that lance does not have the stuff to be a starting pitcher on this team.
He's been a starter for 5 seasons. Looks like you're the one who needs to come around.
When we needed him the most, he grooved a fastball to the hottest hitter in the game. Mentally, the guy just doesn't have it. #4 starter at best. Ideally long relief.
Grooved it? He painted it at the bottom of the zone and the good hitter hit it.
Did he mentally have it in 2017? Closing games in 2018? If anything you need to be mentally stronger out of the bullpen.
You cannot see past your bias. I'm not saying Lance is an ace, but he's clearly an above average starter.
Since 2015, even with the injuries, he's 49th in WAR, 39th in ERA for all starting pitchers. That would put him as a #2 level pitcher. Numbers don't lie.
bluefire579 said:Yet he hasn't any other time in an Astros uniform. Until he does it again you should consider it an aberration due to how this season played out and nothing more. There is nothing in his history to suggest otherwise.Nuke LaLoosh said:bluefire579 said:I think out of everyone, Bregman was hurt the most by the short season. Even ignoring the fact that he missed a good chunk with injury, he has traditionally been a guy who starts slow and eventually gets the snowball rolling downhill. This isn't making excuses for him; the guy would be a perennial MVP winner if he ever could start a season like he ends it, but this season, short as it was, his tendencies harmed us the most this post season, and when he needed to find a way to get past it, he failed miserably. I hope he works this offseason, and finds a way to get past whatever block he has in the early season. While we likely won't ever see a season like this again, it's still important that we can depend on him throughout the year, not just after the team has played well into the third month.Nuke LaLoosh said:
Sarcastic shocker: lance sucked
Non sarcastic shocker: Bregman was the worst postseason player on our team.
Yeah boo hoo. He shat the bed this entire postseason. I won't forget it anytime soon and neither should any of you.
We better all pray it's an aberration. If not, he's not worth the money we spent on him.
If so, I'll still never forget the 2020 playoffs where he did literally nothing.
another fun thing to watch next year...is the Pressly vesting option.
if he pitches in 60 games...his $10 MM option for the 2022 season kicks in.
that $10 MM needs to be going elsewhere by 2022
if he pitches in 60 games...his $10 MM option for the 2022 season kicks in.
that $10 MM needs to be going elsewhere by 2022
If the baseball purists actually believe their own **** maybe we can sign Springer at a discount since he's a giant cheater and all.
tremble said:
Is Whitley showing any potential for being salvaged or do we think he's toasted goods?
A rotation of Framber, Urquidy, Whitley, and a plug in like Greinke or JV would do a lot to permit us the flexibility to sign guys like Correa long term.
I think if Whitley ever becomes something it will be as a late bloomer for another organization. He's got the double whammy of being mentally immature and injury prone
Click shouldn't be beholden to him like Lunhow was. There were a lot of rookies throwing this playoffs for these teams
2021 will be a big season for Lance --- his long-awaited contract year
I see your point but right now his value is very low. He'd probably be worth holding on to just to see if he ever figures it out
Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:redline248 said:
Everyone piling on McCullers for throwing the fastball needs to direct some of that blame to Maldy, who called for it twice.
I'm provably one of the biggest LMJ fans on here, but Maldy called curve and I think Lance shook
Him off so Maldy called heater.
Someday the rest of you will come around to realize that lance does not have the stuff to be a starting pitcher on this team.
He's been a starter for 5 seasons. Looks like you're the one who needs to come around.
When we needed him the most, he grooved a fastball to the hottest hitter in the game. Mentally, the guy just doesn't have it. #4 starter at best. Ideally long relief.
Grooved it? He painted it at the bottom of the zone and the good hitter hit it.
Did he mentally have it in 2017? Closing games in 2018? If anything you need to be mentally stronger out of the bullpen.
You cannot see past your bias. I'm not saying Lance is an ace, but he's clearly an above average starter.
Since 2015, even with the injuries, he's 49th in WAR, 39th in ERA for all starting pitchers. That would put him as a #2 level pitcher. Numbers don't lie.
I know you live to disagree with me and that's cool. But ask yourself a few questions:
Do you feel confident when lance starts?
Do you truly believe he will give you 5+ good innings of baseball?
Even if he gives you 5 good innings of, say, 2 run baseball... is he worth all the bullshlt? 5 innings of 2-3 run baseball consistently isnt much more than a bullpen destroyer.
Now we're calling a guy who goes 5 innings per start at 2 runs a bad pitcher? What world do live in?
Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:redline248 said:
Everyone piling on McCullers for throwing the fastball needs to direct some of that blame to Maldy, who called for it twice.
I'm provably one of the biggest LMJ fans on here, but Maldy called curve and I think Lance shook
Him off so Maldy called heater.
Someday the rest of you will come around to realize that lance does not have the stuff to be a starting pitcher on this team.
He's been a starter for 5 seasons. Looks like you're the one who needs to come around.
When we needed him the most, he grooved a fastball to the hottest hitter in the game. Mentally, the guy just doesn't have it. #4 starter at best. Ideally long relief.
Grooved it? He painted it at the bottom of the zone and the good hitter hit it.
Did he mentally have it in 2017? Closing games in 2018? If anything you need to be mentally stronger out of the bullpen.
You cannot see past your bias. I'm not saying Lance is an ace, but he's clearly an above average starter.
Since 2015, even with the injuries, he's 49th in WAR, 39th in ERA for all starting pitchers. That would put him as a #2 level pitcher. Numbers don't lie.
I know you live to disagree with me and that's cool. But ask yourself a few questions:
Do you feel confident when lance starts?
Do you truly believe he will give you 5+ good innings of baseball?
Even if he gives you 5 good innings of, say, 2 run baseball... is he worth all the bullshlt? 5 innings of 2-3 run baseball consistently isnt much more than a bullpen destroyer.
Lance kind of reminds me of Dallas Keuchel
Yeah, he's kinda good at times, but you never really feel confident with him on the mound and it's rare for him to pitch deep into games. You have to keep him on a short leash.
That can be okay as a 4/5 starter with a deep bullpen to help out. Not so great for trying to win G7 of an ALCS with a not so great bullpen
AggiEE said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:redline248 said:
Everyone piling on McCullers for throwing the fastball needs to direct some of that blame to Maldy, who called for it twice.
I'm provably one of the biggest LMJ fans on here, but Maldy called curve and I think Lance shook
Him off so Maldy called heater.
Someday the rest of you will come around to realize that lance does not have the stuff to be a starting pitcher on this team.
He's been a starter for 5 seasons. Looks like you're the one who needs to come around.
When we needed him the most, he grooved a fastball to the hottest hitter in the game. Mentally, the guy just doesn't have it. #4 starter at best. Ideally long relief.
Grooved it? He painted it at the bottom of the zone and the good hitter hit it.
Did he mentally have it in 2017? Closing games in 2018? If anything you need to be mentally stronger out of the bullpen.
You cannot see past your bias. I'm not saying Lance is an ace, but he's clearly an above average starter.
Since 2015, even with the injuries, he's 49th in WAR, 39th in ERA for all starting pitchers. That would put him as a #2 level pitcher. Numbers don't lie.
I know you live to disagree with me and that's cool. But ask yourself a few questions:
Do you feel confident when lance starts?
Do you truly believe he will give you 5+ good innings of baseball?
Even if he gives you 5 good innings of, say, 2 run baseball... is he worth all the bullshlt? 5 innings of 2-3 run baseball consistently isnt much more than a bullpen destroyer.
Lance kind of reminds me of Dallas Keuchel
Yeah, he's kinda good at times, but you never really feel confident with him on the mound and it's rare for him to pitch deep into games. You have to keep him on a short leash.
That can be okay as a 4/5 starter with a deep bullpen to help out. Not so great for trying to win G7 of an ALCS with a not so great bullpen
Dallas does what now? He led the league in IP in 2015 and hit 200 IP or more in 14 and 18. Maybe Dallas now isn't that guy but he was for us. You don't pitch that many innings without going deep into ballgames.
Am I taking crazy pills?
Farmer1906 said:
Now we're calling a guy who goes 5 innings per start at 2 runs a bad pitcher? What world do live in?
I mean lance doesn't, but good red herring.
Farmer1906 said:AggiEE said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:redline248 said:
Everyone piling on McCullers for throwing the fastball needs to direct some of that blame to Maldy, who called for it twice.
I'm provably one of the biggest LMJ fans on here, but Maldy called curve and I think Lance shook
Him off so Maldy called heater.
Someday the rest of you will come around to realize that lance does not have the stuff to be a starting pitcher on this team.
He's been a starter for 5 seasons. Looks like you're the one who needs to come around.
When we needed him the most, he grooved a fastball to the hottest hitter in the game. Mentally, the guy just doesn't have it. #4 starter at best. Ideally long relief.
Grooved it? He painted it at the bottom of the zone and the good hitter hit it.
Did he mentally have it in 2017? Closing games in 2018? If anything you need to be mentally stronger out of the bullpen.
You cannot see past your bias. I'm not saying Lance is an ace, but he's clearly an above average starter.
Since 2015, even with the injuries, he's 49th in WAR, 39th in ERA for all starting pitchers. That would put him as a #2 level pitcher. Numbers don't lie.
I know you live to disagree with me and that's cool. But ask yourself a few questions:
Do you feel confident when lance starts?
Do you truly believe he will give you 5+ good innings of baseball?
Even if he gives you 5 good innings of, say, 2 run baseball... is he worth all the bullshlt? 5 innings of 2-3 run baseball consistently isnt much more than a bullpen destroyer.
Lance kind of reminds me of Dallas Keuchel
Yeah, he's kinda good at times, but you never really feel confident with him on the mound and it's rare for him to pitch deep into games. You have to keep him on a short leash.
That can be okay as a 4/5 starter with a deep bullpen to help out. Not so great for trying to win G7 of an ALCS with a not so great bullpen
Dallas does what now? He led the league in IP in 2015 and hit 200 IP or more in 14 and 18. Maybe Dallas now isn't that guy but he was for us. You don't pitch that many innings without going deep into ballgames.
Am I taking crazy pills?
This one lost me. Dallas consistently went deep into games, at least as an Astro. Lance absolutely does not.
Middle: reliever.
Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:
Now we're calling a guy who goes 5 innings per start at 2 runs a bad pitcher? What world do live in?
I mean lance doesn't, but good red herring.
He doesn't go 5 innings and give up 2 runs?
This year he averaged 5 IP per start with a 3.92 ERA which translates to 2.17 runs per 5. That exactly what he does.
Farmer1906 said:AggiEE said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:redline248 said:
Everyone piling on McCullers for throwing the fastball needs to direct some of that blame to Maldy, who called for it twice.
I'm provably one of the biggest LMJ fans on here, but Maldy called curve and I think Lance shook
Him off so Maldy called heater.
Someday the rest of you will come around to realize that lance does not have the stuff to be a starting pitcher on this team.
He's been a starter for 5 seasons. Looks like you're the one who needs to come around.
When we needed him the most, he grooved a fastball to the hottest hitter in the game. Mentally, the guy just doesn't have it. #4 starter at best. Ideally long relief.
Grooved it? He painted it at the bottom of the zone and the good hitter hit it.
Did he mentally have it in 2017? Closing games in 2018? If anything you need to be mentally stronger out of the bullpen.
You cannot see past your bias. I'm not saying Lance is an ace, but he's clearly an above average starter.
Since 2015, even with the injuries, he's 49th in WAR, 39th in ERA for all starting pitchers. That would put him as a #2 level pitcher. Numbers don't lie.
I know you live to disagree with me and that's cool. But ask yourself a few questions:
Do you feel confident when lance starts?
Do you truly believe he will give you 5+ good innings of baseball?
Even if he gives you 5 good innings of, say, 2 run baseball... is he worth all the bullshlt? 5 innings of 2-3 run baseball consistently isnt much more than a bullpen destroyer.
Lance kind of reminds me of Dallas Keuchel
Yeah, he's kinda good at times, but you never really feel confident with him on the mound and it's rare for him to pitch deep into games. You have to keep him on a short leash.
That can be okay as a 4/5 starter with a deep bullpen to help out. Not so great for trying to win G7 of an ALCS with a not so great bullpen
Dallas does what now? He led the league in IP in 2015 and hit 200 IP or more in 14 and 18. Maybe Dallas now isn't that guy but he was for us. You don't pitch that many innings without going deep into ballgames.
Am I taking crazy pills?
2015 was an outlier.
He's not that same guy and wasn't that same guy for a good portion of time with us at the tail end of his tenure
Who else is drunk???
Man there doesnt seem to be many good free agent outfielders in 2021
Ags #1 said:
Man there doesnt seem to be many good free agent outfielders in 2021
Ozuna, Springer, Brantley are the top ones. No reason to break the brand on Ozuna because it's probably better spent on Springer.
The next tier down are guys like JBJ who might be a nice fit. Pederson who could be a nice platoon type but not an everyday player.
Offseason thread is up. Go easy on me it was my first one and it limited how many pictures I could post. Feel free to add as much as you want on the first page
Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:
Now we're calling a guy who goes 5 innings per start at 2 runs a bad pitcher? What world do live in?
I mean lance doesn't, but good red herring.
He doesn't go 5 innings and give up 2 runs?
This year he averaged 5 IP per start with a 3.92 ERA which translates to 2.17 runs per 5. That exactly what he does.
So he averaged not enough innings for a quality start. Cool I guess.
Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:Nuke LaLoosh said:Farmer1906 said:
Now we're calling a guy who goes 5 innings per start at 2 runs a bad pitcher? What world do live in?
I mean lance doesn't, but good red herring.
He doesn't go 5 innings and give up 2 runs?
This year he averaged 5 IP per start with a 3.92 ERA which translates to 2.17 runs per 5. That exactly what he does.
So he averaged not enough innings for a quality start. Cool I guess.
Based on the last couple years data neither do Charlie's Morton, Blake Snell, Tyler Glasnow, Walker Beuhler, Jack Flaherty, Mike Clevinger, Lucas Giolito, Yu Darvish, Sonny Gray, and a ton of other really good pitchers. Should they all move to middle relief too?
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