MLB Commissioner has opened Pandora's Box

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oldschool87
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9:52a, 1/16/20
AG
This is not a Astros take everyone down with us...

Simple commons sense says, this is going to get really, really bad and messy for MLB. Instead of having a private meeting with the parties involved and laying down the law. MLB took this public without doing there own due diligence, and now they are in big trouble.

Did you see any manager or player from the Yankees or Dodgers say, we were cheated, we deserved to win the world series, give us the trophy? No, you did not. You see fans and the media stirring up everything, its the perfect story for the media and the perfect wronged for the fan.

But zero players!

In fact, you are seeing the opposite from the players. They are naming teams left and right.

The Gynormous problem for MLB, is they have already fired there bullets and set presidence. Now when it comes to light that at least a dozen more teams if not all of MLB is doing this, now what?

You will see now what should have happened before, it will start to get swept under the rug. The Astros take the fall for all of MLB, while the Yankees and Dodgers get away scott free!!!

O by the way, first in! We should be awarded the 18 series also as the Red Sox clearly had an advantage over us in every way!!!!

Anyway, MLB has created a complete Cluster Buck and it has splattered on everyone!!!!
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South Platte
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In reply to oldschool87 • 9:55a, 1/16/20
oldschool87 said:
This is not a Astros take everyone down with us...

Simple commons sense says, this is going to get really, really bad and messy for MLB. Instead of having a private meeting with the parties involved and laying down the law. MLB took this public without doing there own due diligence, and now they are in big trouble.

Did you see any manager or player from the Yankees or Dodgers say, we were cheated, we deserved to win the world series, give us the trophy? No, you did not. You see fans and the media stirring up everything, its the perfect story for the media and the perfect wronged for the fan.

But zero players!

In fact, you are seeing the opposite from the players. They are naming teams left and right.

The Gynormous problem for MLB, is they have already fired there bullets and set presidence. Now when it comes to light that at least a dozen more teams if not all of MLB is doing this, now what?

You will see now what should have happened before, it will start to get swept under the rug. The Astros take the fall for all of MLB, while the Yankees and Dodgers get away scott free!!!

O by the way, first in! We should be awarded the 18 series also as the Red Sox clearly had an advantage over us in every way!!!!

Anyway, MLB has created a complete Cluster Buck and it has splattered on everyone!!!!
Ban baseball franchise, delete title.
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03_Aggie
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9:58a, 1/16/20
MLB did have a private meeting and lay down the law. After the Boston/New York finger point they sent a memo to the clubs. That memo said managers and GMs will be held accountable if any instances follow the date of the memo.

Fiers is the one that forced MLBs hand.
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diehard03
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9:58a, 1/16/20
Quote:
Anyway, MLB has created a complete Cluster Buck and it has splattered on everyone!!!!

Not really. It happens in every controversy and every scandal. Those who didn't get caught have a chance to hide the gun.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

The player thing was just to avoid an issue with the MLBPA (or hell, use it against them later)
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safety guy
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10:39a, 1/16/20
AG
What the commissioner did was use the smaller market Astros as the example of what they would do to show they would do something. They pretty much were forced to look at the Red Sox after saying this only involved the Astros. They don't want it out that there are half of the teams doing this. Just like the steroids deal. Make a few examples that the east coast media can sell to the public and move on after punishing the Astros. But to me, the Yankees are in this as well. When I hear that Brian McCann is going to the mound at yankee stadium to tell the pitcher what to throw because he knows the Yankees are watching his signals, that says something because he played for them.
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wbt5845
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11:08a, 1/16/20
AG
Not really - Commish punished teams for which there was sufficient evidence to prove they cheated. If you know of other teams which may have cheated, collect your evidence and e-mail it to them. I'm sure they'll appreciate your input.
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oldschool87
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In reply to safety guy • 11:30a, 1/16/20
AG
safety guy said:
What the commissioner did was use the smaller market Astros as the example of what they would do to show they would do something. They pretty much were forced to look at the Red Sox after saying this only involved the Astros. They don't want it out that there are half of the teams doing this. Just like the steroids deal. Make a few examples that the east coast media can sell to the public and move on after punishing the Astros. But to me, the Yankees are in this as well. When I hear that Brian McCann is going to the mound at yankee stadium to tell the pitcher what to throw because he knows the Yankees are watching his signals, that says something because he played for them.
Exactly!!!!
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oldschool87
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In reply to wbt5845 • 11:30a, 1/16/20
AG
wbt5845 said:
Not really - Commish punished teams for which there was sufficient evidence to prove they cheated. If you know of other teams which may have cheated, collect your evidence and e-mail it to them. I'm sure they'll appreciate your input.
Based on what you know, which is what?
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PlaneCrashGuy
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11:34a, 1/16/20
AG
This thread is some serious delusion. Its pitiful
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DallasAg 94
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11:41a, 1/16/20
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 11:43a, 1/16/20
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oldschool87
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 11:56a, 1/16/20
AG
DallasAg 94 said:
lda6339 said:
This thread is some serious delusion. Its pitiful
It is like the ex-boyfriend showing up to her divorce proceedings with someone else, trying to validate she made a mistake in dumping him.

Astros fans: "The Dodgers are staking a claim to the 2017 World Series, so our cheating was ok."
The Dodgers have already been named as doing the same thing, but thanks for playing...
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oldschool87
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 11:56a, 1/16/20
AG
DallasAg 94 said:
lda6339 said:
This thread is some serious delusion. Its pitiful
It is like the ex-boyfriend showing up to her divorce proceedings with someone else, trying to validate she made a mistake in dumping him.

Astros fans: "The Dodgers are staking a claim to the 2017 World Series, so our cheating was ok."
Where was game 7 played?
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Gramercy Riffs
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12:20p, 1/16/20
AG
Quote:
Did you see any manager or player from the Yankees or Dodgers say, we were cheated, we deserved to win the world series, give us the trophy? No, you did not. You see fans and the media stirring up everything, its the perfect story for the media and the perfect wronged for the fan.

But zero players!

Since this part is absolutely false, I stopped reading here.
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ORAggieFan
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In reply to oldschool87 • 12:21p, 1/16/20
oldschool87 said:
DallasAg 94 said:
lda6339 said:
This thread is some serious delusion. Its pitiful
It is like the ex-boyfriend showing up to her divorce proceedings with someone else, trying to validate she made a mistake in dumping him.

Astros fans: "The Dodgers are staking a claim to the 2017 World Series, so our cheating was ok."
The Dodgers have already been named as doing the same thing, but thanks for playing...

Named by who? Anyone can name anyone, doesn't mean it is legitimate.

The butt hurt from Astros fans is hilarious. There are a few that are very reasonable and have expressed their disappointment in the cheating. But, the most vocal continue to attempt to justify cheating.
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Gramercy Riffs
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In reply to ORAggieFan • 12:28p, 1/16/20
AG
ORAggieFan said:
The butt hurt from Astros fans is hilarious. There are a few that are very reasonable and have expressed their disappointment in the cheating. But, the most vocal continue to attempt to justify cheating.

The over the top reactions from other fans are getting to be hilarious too. A lot of folks on both sides are starting to look silly. Ok, they all actually started looking silly a few days ago.
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03_Aggie
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In reply to Gramercy Riffs • 12:35p, 1/16/20
Gramercy Riffs said:
ORAggieFan said:
The butt hurt from Astros fans is hilarious. There are a few that are very reasonable and have expressed their disappointment in the cheating. But, the most vocal continue to attempt to justify cheating.

The over the top reactions from other fans are getting to be hilarious too. A lot of folks on both sides are starting to look silly. Ok, they all actually started looking silly a few days ago.


Just wait until the "cheaters" hit the FA market. Wait until fans of those teams start to rationalize why it's cool to sign them now.

Same with Lunhow. Clubs will be chomping at the bit to get him. And the justification as to why it's ok to do so now is because "we've met with him and are confident that he has learned from his mistakes and will not repeat them."
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bilbobag
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12:37p, 1/16/20
MLB will not do anything that will effect its bottom line, period.

I will never do a thorough investigation of all teams that have been accused.
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Proposition Joe
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12:39p, 1/16/20
Opened Pandora's Box how?

The major violators got dealt with, and the penalty was severe enough to discourage others from doing it in the future.

I'd be surprised if we see any further fallout from this at all.
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BMX Bandit
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12:40p, 1/16/20
not sure if OP is more funny or more sad.
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TarponChaser
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12:44p, 1/16/20
Virtually everyone was doing it.
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AustinCountyAg
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In reply to ORAggieFan • 12:48p, 1/16/20
nobody is justifying cheating.

fact is sign stealing has been around since the game began. Only difference now is technology is new with better ways of doing it and some are butt hurt because they didn't adapt soon enough. and because their team sucks too.

this can be spinned so many different ways it is unreal.
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ORAggieFan
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In reply to AustinCountyAg • 12:55p, 1/16/20
AustinCountyAg said:
nobody is justifying cheating.

fact is sign stealing has been around since the game began. Only difference now is technology is new with better ways of doing it and some are butt hurt because they didn't adapt soon enough. and because their team sucks too.

this can be spinned so many different ways it is unreal.
Lots of people are justifying cheating, including you in this post.

Stealing signs = part of the game
Stealing signs with technology = specifically said against the rules by the commissioner and faces punishment
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AustinCountyAg
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In reply to ORAggieFan • 12:59p, 1/16/20
I get what your saying completely. The facts are multiple teams are/were doing it. The astros and their fans biggest gripe in this whole thing IMO is if they are facing punishments all of the other teams needs to be investigated if warranted and need to face similar consequences.
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ORAggieFan
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In reply to AustinCountyAg • 1:05p, 1/16/20
AustinCountyAg said:
I get what your saying completely. The facts are multiple teams are/were doing it. The astros and their fans biggest gripe in this whole thing IMO is if they are facing punishments all of the other teams needs to be investigated if warranted and need to face similar consequences.
Yes, they all should be. The Red Sox are the ones with the most allegations outside of Houston and will be punished. This isn't going to end with the Astros.

But, it's not all teams doing it. It's a small group. Evidence is also needed, which was overwhelming against the Astros.

If you're made because others haven't been punished, I'd say wait and see. Already two other teams need managers as well.
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amercer
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1:11p, 1/16/20
AG
The problem is that the Astros got caught. Probably because they were doing it better than everyone else. Probably because they had a culture using technology better than everyone else.

At the end of the day, if you do the crime you can't complain about doing the time. Even if nobody else gets caught doing the same thing.
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TarponChaser
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In reply to ORAggieFan • 1:27p, 1/16/20
ORAggieFan said:
AustinCountyAg said:
I get what your saying completely. The facts are multiple teams are/were doing it. The astros and their fans biggest gripe in this whole thing IMO is if they are facing punishments all of the other teams needs to be investigated if warranted and need to face similar consequences.
Yes, they all should be. The Red Sox are the ones with the most allegations outside of Houston and will be punished. This isn't going to end with the Astros.

But, it's not all teams doing it. It's a small group. Evidence is also needed, which was overwhelming against the Astros.

If you're made because others haven't been punished, I'd say wait and see. Already two other teams need managers as well.

Dodgers and Yankees were doing it.

And if they were doing it you can bet the Cubs, Brewers, and Nats were too.
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Proposition Joe
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1:30p, 1/16/20
"Teams are "butthurt" because they didn't adapt."

"Teams are "butthurt" because their teams suck."

"It's OK because everyone is doing it."



ProTip: When all of your arguments sounds like they'd come from an 8-year-old, your arguments aren't very good.


The Astros own manager destroyed the setup. TWICE. Was he butthurt? Did he think it was OK because everyone was doing it?

Astros cheated. Astros got caught cheating. Astros got punished for cheating.
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Alta
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1:38p, 1/16/20
AG
I keep hearing Houston is a smaller market, etc. as an excuse to make an example out of the Astros. When did Houston become a small market? It's the 4th largest city in America, the Astros are (or were) the most popular team in Texas and a decent portion of the Southeast. Not all that small...
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to amercer • 1:41p, 1/16/20
amercer said:
The problem is that the Astros got caught. Probably because they were doing it better than everyone else. Probably because they had a culture using technology better than everyone else.

Or because their culture over the last decade has been "win, no matter the cost... and then act emboldened by it."

* Execute a historical tankjob (including a payroll $20m below the Florida Marlins) that had never been seen in modern baseball just to garner draft picks? Check... But then cry foul that the mean 'ole commissioner made you switch leagues!

* Pass on an offer to have 100% of gate for a "home" series in Arlington due the hurricane, then admit it was all about not giving another team competitive advantage and instead wanting it for yourself? Check... But then cry foul to the media that the mean 'ole Texas Rangers hate hurricane victims!

* Make a "slant-eye" mocking racist gesture regarding the other team's starting pitcher that is seen on national TV? Check... Nevermind it looks like you were actually having to cheat to hit him!

* Trade for a closer in the middle of a suspension for beating a woman, have your assistant-GM gloat to a female reporter about it, then write a hit-piece on said reporter before checking the facts? Check... But then cry foul that the mean 'ole media is out to get you!

* Participate in an elaborate cheating system even after the MLB has warned you against it and your own manager has resorted to physical violence *twice* to stop it? Check... But then cry foul that the mean 'ole commissioner is out to get you again!



Yeah, no doubt there was a certain culture down in Houston.
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03_Aggie
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 1:51p, 1/16/20
DallasAg 94 said:
Zero?






Well he was garbage in the World Series.
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TarponChaser
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 1:56p, 1/16/20
Proposition Joe said:
amercer said:
The problem is that the Astros got caught. Probably because they were doing it better than everyone else. Probably because they had a culture using technology better than everyone else.

Or because their culture over the last decade has been "win, no matter the cost... and then act emboldened by it."

* Execute a historical tankjob (including a payroll $20m below the Florida Marlins) that had never been seen in modern baseball just to garner draft picks? Check... But then cry foul that the mean 'ole commissioner made you switch leagues!

* Pass on an offer to have 100% of gate for a "home" series in Arlington due the hurricane, then admit it was all about not giving another team competitive advantage and instead wanting it for yourself? Check... But then cry foul to the media that the mean 'ole Texas Rangers hate hurricane victims!

* Make a "slant-eye" mocking racist gesture regarding the other team's starting pitcher that is seen on national TV? Check... Nevermind it looks like you were actually having to cheat to hit him!

* Trade for a closer in the middle of a suspension for beating a woman, have your assistant-GM gloat to a female reporter about it, then write a hit-piece on said reporter before checking the facts? Check... But then cry foul that the mean 'ole media is out to get you!

* Participate in an elaborate cheating system even after the MLB has warned you against it and your own manager has resorted to physical violence *twice* to stop it? Check... But then cry foul that the mean 'ole commissioner is out to get you again!



Yeah, no doubt there was a certain culture down in Houston.

Based on your post it's clear you're an irrational fan of a franchise which is just A-OK with forcibly jerking off players as a means of hazing.

1) what does tanking for pics and amassing prospects have to do with switching leagues? Being forced to move to the AL made no sense for Houston when the traditional rivals are the Cardinals and Cubs and you have franchises in Arizona and Colorado that make far more sense for the AL West.
2) that's not remotely what happened- the Astros offered the flip-flop with 100% gate exchange but the Rangers refused
3) what does the lack of sensitivity from a dude from Cuba have to do with anything? No organization employing a guy like Rougned Odor has any room to talk.
4) you mean the same guy who was cleared? After all it's not the evidence but the seriousness of the charge.
5) participating in something that was widespread in baseball and even the Rangers have been alleged to be doing it but they suck anyway so I guess it doesn't matter. MLB is going to wish Mike Fiers never forced their hand or this is going to end up like the steroid era.
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safety guy
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1:59p, 1/16/20
AG
I'm an Astros fan. I am fine with the punishment, although not happy that Crane fired the two. What I am not happy about is people, especially the national (mainly east coast types) media types acting like this is the worst thing of all time and acting like there is no thought of other cheating. Logic and common sense says others were doing this. Players are transient, coming and going from team to team. They know what goes on like this so it's not like it should be a secret among players. Also players in all sports are looking to gain advantages. That's why players still get busted for ped's. They did not mask it correctly. Heck, baseball messed with the game with the ball this year in the regular season to drive attendance. Came back to reality in the playoffs because they did not need scoring to drive attendance.
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West Point Aggie
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 4:26p, 1/16/20
AG
Proposition Joe said:
Opened Pandora's Box how?

The major violators got dealt with, and the penalty was severe enough to discourage others from doing it in the future.

I'd be surprised if we see any further fallout from this at all.


Severe penalties?!?

LOL...

Anything less than vacating the 2017 title is a joke...these "penalties" will absolutely NOT hurt a juggernaut of a team like Houston. $5M to the Astros is like few hundred to you and me.

Like in 1994, 2017 should read No WS Champion

Of course this won't happen
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claym711
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7:17p, 1/16/20
AG
The butthurt and triggering of non-Astros fans is so glorious. It's like reliving the 2016 election.
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