Farmer1906 said:

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bluefire579 said:

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Both McCann and Beltrn played for the Yankees during the 2014, '15 and '16 seasons before joining the Astros in '17. But it was Beltrn who, according to multiple sources, told the Astros that their sign-stealing methods were "behind the times."

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And we're still not investigating the Yankees?

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That's it. Drop the ****ing hammer. Time to put a big fat "*" on all those early playoff exits.

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Wabs said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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bluefire579 said:

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Both McCann and Beltrn played for the Yankees during the 2014, '15 and '16 seasons before joining the Astros in '17. But it was Beltrn who, according to multiple sources, told the Astros that their sign-stealing methods were "behind the times."

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And we're still not investigating the Yankees?

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That's it. Drop the ****ing hammer. Time to put a big fat "*" on all those early playoff exits.

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Yankees fans actually believe that using tech to steal signs was legal until MLB's memo in 2017. That is absolutely false, but it gives the self righteous little ****ers an excuse to go around like innocent little angels.

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Texaggie7nine said:

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I'm fully expecting the cheating talk to kick up and last for at least another week now that players for all clubs are showing up and are going to be saying things. Every statement is going to be combed over with a fine tooth comb by social media.

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Marvin said:

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It's report day and I am so done talking about cheating and all that. The team will have their say today, whatever it is, and hopefully we get on to some actual baseball talk.

To that end, post your best guess on the expected AL West win totals this year:

96 Astros
90 A's
83 Angels
79 Rangers
67 Mariners

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On Aug. 26, 2017, Tom Koch-Weser sent an email to several colleagues in the Houston Astros front office that included an update on the state of the team's "dark arts, sign-stealing department."

Utility man Marwin Gonzlez, Koch-Weser wrote, was having great success with the information procured by the Astros' illicit efforts, cutting down on his rate of swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. But somebody else was having trouble with it: veteran outfielder Carlos Beltrn.

"Beltrn, who is the godfather of the whole program, ironically just swings at everything after taking a strike and probably does the worst with the info," Koch-Weser wrote.

The message clarifies a critical point about the cheating operation that has transformed into one of the biggest scandals in American sports history. Neither the players alone, nor the front office, are to blame. The Astros' rule-breaking permeated the organization, involving executives, coaches and players.

Until now, it has been hard to know who really drove the cheating scheme. Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred twice used the phrase "player-driven" to describe the Astros' cheating in his public report released last month. That's because much of the report focused on the now-infamous "banging scheme" of 2017players watching a live feed on a monitor installed near their home dugout and relaying pitch information to hitters in real time by slamming on a trash can with a bat. MLB considered the banging scheme to be the Astros' most egregious crime and believe it to have been primarily executed by players.

But an earlier private letter from Manfred to then-Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow, the contents of which were first reported by The Wall Street Journal, revealed that members of the front office played an active role, too. They devised an Excel-based application internally called "Codebreaker" for the purpose of decoding opposing catchers' signs.

The interplay between players and executives was inherent to the sign-stealing program from the start. In 2016, Houston third baseman Alex Bregman, then a rookie, mentioned to video room staffers at one point that other teams were better at stealing signs when runners were on second base than the Astros, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Three people familiar with the matter said that Bregman wasn't telling the Astros to cheat, but rather suggesting that they could find a way to decode signs legally. The Astros didn't provide comment on behalf of their employees. The MLB Players Association declined to comment.

The conversation eventually led to Derek Vigoa, then an intern and now the Astros' director of team operations, delivering a PowerPoint presentation to Luhnow in September 2016 that featured a slide devoted to Codebreaker. (Luhnow was suspended for the entire 2020 season last month and then fired by the Astros.)

One of the people familiar with the matter said that once Codebreaker went into action, the people most interested in sign-stealing were Beltrn and bench coach Alex Cora. Beltrn, who retired after the 2017 campaign, was the only player named in Manfred's public report for his involvement in the sign-stealing. It cost him his job as manager of the New York Mets before he ever worked a single game. Beltrn didn't respond to a request for comment.

Cora was let go from his post as the skipper for the Boston Red Sox. Manfred is expected to level severe discipline against Cora when he releases the league's findings into allegations of similar cheating by the Red Sox in 2018. Cora acknowledged a request for comment but didn't elaborate further.

On May 24, 2017, Koch-Weser, who is still employed by the Astros, sent an email to Luhnow and others that highlights Cora and Beltrn's roles.

"I don't want to electronically correspond too much about 'the system' but Cora/Cintron/Beltran have been driving a culture initiated by Bregman/Vigoa last year and I think it's working," Koch-Weser wrote. "I have no proof that it has worked, but we get real good dope on pitchers tipping and being lazy. That information, if it's not already, will eventually yield major results in our favor once players get used to the implementation." (Alex Cintrn was an Astros assistant coach in 2017 and is now their hitting coach. He was believed to be involved in transmitting information from the video room to the dugout, a person familiar said.)

Koch-Weser and other Astros video room staffers told MLB investigators that they were unaware of the Astros' banging scheme until September 2017, when Danny Farquhar, then a pitcher for the Chicago White Sox, appeared to notice the noises emanating from the Astros' dugout. Manfred wrote in his public report that the incident caused a sense of "panic" in the Houston dugout, and a group of players removed the monitor near the dugout and hid it in an office.

The banging scheme started around June 2017, with Cora and Beltrn among the most responsible for its implementation, according to a person familiar with the matter. It was Cora who had a tech worker install the monitor that the Astros' players watched before banging on the trash can, this person said.

But while it started with Cora and Beltrn, it quickly spread. Manfred's Jan. 2 letter to Luhnow said that, "Most or all Astros players were active participants in the Banging Scheme by the conclusion of the 2017 World Series," which ended with Houston winning in seven games over the Los Angeles Dodgers. "The Banging Scheme was so prevalent," Manfred wrote, "that witnesses regularly describe that everyone in and around the Astros dugout was presumptively aware of it."

Koch-Weser's August email that called Beltrn the "godfather" was referring to the video room sign-stealing operation. It singled out Gonzlez as particularly benefiting from it. "Marwin I'd say does the best job with getting this info," Koch-Weser wrote.

Gonzlez, who signed a two-year, $21 million contract with the Minnesota Twins last February, declined a request for comment from The Wall Street Journal. He spoke with reporters at the team's spring training camp in Fort Myers, Fla., on Tuesday and apologized generally for the Astros' cheating.

"I'm remorseful for everything that happened in 2017, for everything that we did as a group and for the players that were affected directly by us doing this," he said.

Gonzlez had by far his best season in 2017, hitting .303 with a .907 OPS in 455 at-bats, up from his career totals of .264 and .737, respectively. He also set personal bests with 23 home runs and 90 RBIs. Tony Adams, an Astros fan who watched 8,274 pitches from 58 home games during the 2017 season and logged every instance he could hear a banging sound, heard banging on 147 pitches thrown to Gonzlez, the most of anybody on the team.

"We've seen huge declines from him in chase and swing rates," Koch-Weser wrote.

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CFTXAG10 said:

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Weird.

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CFTXAG10 said:

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Reporting Day

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CFTXAG10 said:

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Gross

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Farmer1906 said:

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I assume you mean who's fighting for spots on the active roster (25 man).

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agproducer said:

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MLB is content to have the Astros be the face of this -- even though sign-stealing permeates all of baseball.

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mathguy86 said:

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Rob Manfred can gobble my crank. He can polish my bishop. He can gargle with my ManTool. Seriously. I hope he's happy with himself.

Steroids? Destroyed personal records that litter the baseball landscape that his office just ignores?

Wife beaters that get slapped on the wrist?

Players high on opioids and other drug cocktails and killing themselves between gamesand clubhouse attendants selling that lethal cocktail to them? And then teams having the gall to celebrate them?

Any of that in your wheelhouse? You think you might get on any of that Rob?

Up yours you sanctimonious POS.

Up. Yours.

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