"Chip-Away"

Now we are flooding the mound with dudes who only dream about pitching in the major leagues - and pop out

At least Calhoun has a couple hits. Need to get him going again, he's been struggling lately.

It pisses me off that we waved the white flag so early in this game against a team that has shown to have a disastrous bullpen.

Grapesoda2525 said:

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Not ashamed to admit that I skipped this game.

The combination of blowing a favorable pitching matchup and the chance to win a series paired with a daunting pitching matchup today told me that this was a good one to skip.

I simply don't think we have the depth to win 4 game series.

The Red Sox and Astros series ended up being very disappointing when you consider we actually won the first 2.

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If those were playoff series it would be a best of 3 right now. Splitting against good teams isn't ideal but it's not the worst thing in the world. No one is asking the Rangers to be the best team in the league. Just get in the dance and you have a chance.

Frisco is playing on Fox Sports SW right now if anyone is interested in checking out the AA squad.

KT 90 said:

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Frisco is playing on Fox Sports SW right now if anyone is interested in checking out the AA squad.

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I was watching and is that CJ on the broadcast?!

DallasAg 94 said:

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KT 90 said:

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Frisco is playing on Fox Sports SW right now if anyone is interested in checking out the AA squad.

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I was watching and is that CJ on the broadcast?!

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Not sure, but sounds like somebody different to me.

Rossko said:

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Grapesoda2525 said:

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Not ashamed to admit that I skipped this game.

The combination of blowing a favorable pitching matchup and the chance to win a series paired with a daunting pitching matchup today told me that this was a good one to skip.

I simply don't think we have the depth to win 4 game series.

The Red Sox and Astros series ended up being very disappointing when you consider we actually won the first 2.

---

If those were playoff series it would be a best of 3 right now. Splitting against good teams isn't ideal but it's not the worst thing in the world. No one is asking the Rangers to be the best team in the league. Just get in the dance and you have a chance.

---

It is one thing to say, "get in and you have a chance." I'm cool with that.

The problem I have is... trading away prospects. Sure, Homer Bailey might improve any one of Sampson, Jurado and/or Chavez. I say pick one, because you have to decide who you want to replace, without knowing which one will be the worst. Any one of them could be best or worst.

Here is why it matters, beyond just getting the WC.

Here was 2018:

National League
10/2/18: Rockies beat @Cubs for WC

10/3/18: Off Day
5 Game Series
10/4/18 L @ Milw
10/5/18 L @ Milw
10/6/18 Off Day
10/7/18 L v Milw

American League
10/3/18: Yanks beat vAth for WC
10/4/18: Off Day
5 Game Series
10/5/18: L @Boston
10/6/18: W @Boston
Off Day
10/8/18: L v Boston
10/9/18: L v Boston

You throw Minor in the WC and you have a best of 5 series to follow and Minor doesn't pitch until Game 3, and will not be available (presumably) for any other game.

So, you go 5 games with:
Lynn - Game 1
Jurado - Game 2
Minor - Game 3

Current AL:
Yankees: - Tanaka (3.86, 1.18), Sabathia (4.03, 1.34) JA Happ (4.93, 1.26)
Minn - 1.5 GB: Berrios (3.00, 1.11), Odorizzi (3.06, 1.11), Gibson, 4.03, 1.26)
Houston - 1.5 GB: Verlander (2.98, 0.81), Cole (3.23, 1.03), Miley (3.32, 1.14)

So, we'd likely get a decent matchup with Lynn v Tanaka, Berrios or Verlander.

Then, we'd get a dud with Jurado against Sabathia, Odorizzi or Cole.

Favorable with Minor in Game 3.

Game 4 is Homer Bailey?

Boston has upgraded it's pitching.

Stroman has been rumored to go to either Minn or NYY
Bauer has been rumored to go to Houston.

So... unless we get someone that can pitch Game 2 of 5 in a 5 game series, adding anything that costs is inconsequential and keeps us from dismantling.

We don't have the BP to shorten a game, either. When we made the playoff runs, we have 5 solid RPs. We shortened the game to 6-7 Innings, knowing the 8th and 9th were locked down, and if we could get to the 6th, it would be favorable.

If you are going into the WC with Sale (4.27) and Price (3.24) and Porcello (5.33) and now you add Cashner (3.83)... You can say, "Anything can happen," because each of those pitchers has shown they can perform at a high level.

We still aren't sure that Minor and Lynn are going to make it past 160 IP. Minor is at 122.0 IP, and hopefully he isn't breaking down.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Rossko said:

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Grapesoda2525 said:

---

Not ashamed to admit that I skipped this game.

The combination of blowing a favorable pitching matchup and the chance to win a series paired with a daunting pitching matchup today told me that this was a good one to skip.

I simply don't think we have the depth to win 4 game series.

The Red Sox and Astros series ended up being very disappointing when you consider we actually won the first 2.

---

If those were playoff series it would be a best of 3 right now. Splitting against good teams isn't ideal but it's not the worst thing in the world. No one is asking the Rangers to be the best team in the league. Just get in the dance and you have a chance.

---

It is one thing to say, "get in and you have a chance." I'm cool with that.

The problem I have is... trading away prospects. Sure, Homer Bailey might improve any one of Sampson, Jurado and/or Chavez. I say pick one, because you have to decide who you want to replace, without knowing which one will be the worst. Any one of them could be best or worst.

Here is why it matters, beyond just getting the WC.

Here was 2018:

National League
10/2/18: Rockies beat @Cubs for WC

10/3/18: Off Day
5 Game Series
10/4/18 L @ Milw
10/5/18 L @ Milw
10/6/18 Off Day
10/7/18 L v Milw

American League
10/3/18: Yanks beat vAth for WC
10/4/18: Off Day
5 Game Series
10/5/18: L @Boston
10/6/18: W @Boston
Off Day
10/8/18: L v Boston
10/9/18: L v Boston

You throw Minor in the WC and you have a best of 5 series to follow and Minor doesn't pitch until Game 3, and will not be available (presumably) for any other game.

So, you go 5 games with:
Lynn - Game 1
Jurado - Game 2
Minor - Game 3

Current AL:
Yankees: - Tanaka (3.86, 1.18), Sabathia (4.03, 1.34) JA Happ (4.93, 1.26)
Minn - 1.5 GB: Berrios (3.00, 1.11), Odorizzi (3.06, 1.11), Gibson, 4.03, 1.26)
Houston - 1.5 GB: Verlander (2.98, 0.81), Cole (3.23, 1.03), Miley (3.32, 1.14)

So, we'd likely get a decent matchup with Lynn v Tanaka, Berrios or Verlander.

Then, we'd get a dud with Jurado against Sabathia, Odorizzi or Cole.

Favorable with Minor in Game 3.

Game 4 is Homer Bailey?

Boston has upgraded it's pitching.

Stroman has been rumored to go to either Minn or NYY
Bauer has been rumored to go to Houston.

So... unless we get someone that can pitch Game 2 of 5 in a 5 game series, adding anything that costs is inconsequential and keeps us from dismantling.

We don't have the BP to shorten a game, either. When we made the playoff runs, we have 5 solid RPs. We shortened the game to 6-7 Innings, knowing the 8th and 9th were locked down, and if we could get to the 6th, it would be favorable.

If you are going into the WC with Sale (4.27) and Price (3.24) and Porcello (5.33) and now you add Cashner (3.83)... You can say, "Anything can happen," because each of those pitchers has shown they can perform at a high level.

We still aren't sure that Minor and Lynn are going to make it past 160 IP. Minor is at 122.0 IP, and hopefully he isn't breaking down.

---

You're missing the point. Homer Bailey is CHEAP. No prospects needed. Basically money and maybe a lower level PTBNL outside of the team's top 30. I don't care about fantasy land matchups, I care about taking any chance to make the playoffs you can get. A lot can change between now and October so your matchups are meaningless.

KT 90 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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KT 90 said:

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Frisco is playing on Fox Sports SW right now if anyone is interested in checking out the AA squad.

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I was watching and is that CJ on the broadcast?!

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Not sure, but sounds like somebody different to me.

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I think one it might be Mike Basich.

Early July

I was thinking buy controllable players who don't cost a ton of prospect capital. My mindset was that hopefully some other teams would fade or maybe we would start building up a lead in the wild card race.

Since then

Neither of those things has happened. The question is how big do you sell? A fire sale which kills any chance of competing until 2025 would kinda suck.

Ideally, I'd like to keep most of the lineup in place for next year. We're still the best lineup in the AL west ( runs scored), make a run at some pitchers in free agency, and come back ready to fight next year.

I don't know how you'd balance both of those goals. The front office definitely has some decisions to make.

You sound like me any year, except this one.

I'm hearing what you are saying. I'm the guy who thinks we are still a contender, until mathematically eliminated.

JD took my spirit this year. He set this season as a throw-away, which I couldn't stand. He filled every open roster spot with guys he hoped would perform well enough to have trade value at the deadline, and invested nothing in the long-term.

As it turned out... he struck blackjack twice on a pair of Kings split.

They are playing too well to sell, and have too many holes to buy. Improving from Sampson to Bailey would frustrate me, because it might improve the W/L a little... might hurt it... and we'd still be meh.

We need 3 RP, 3 SP, a couple RH bats... and that is if Minor and Lynn can get past 160 IP.

We have the hitting to match anyone, and the pitching to lose to anyone.

I remind myself we came into the season with no pitcher that has gone a full 190+ IP.

DallasAg 94 said:

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You sound like me any year, except this one.

I'm hearing what you are saying. I'm the guy who thinks we are still a contender, until mathematically eliminated.

JD took my spirit this year. He set this season as a throw-away, which I couldn't stand. He filled every open roster spot with guys he hoped would perform well enough to have trade value at the deadline, and invested nothing in the long-term.

As it turned out... he struck blackjack twice on a pair of Kings split.

They are playing too well to sell, and have too many holes to buy. Improving from Sampson to Bailey would frustrate me, because it might improve the W/L a little... might hurt it... and we'd still be meh.

We need 3 RP, 3 SP, a couple RH bats... and that is if Minor and Lynn can get past 160 IP.

We have the hitting to match anyone, and the pitching to lose to anyone.

I remind myself we came into the season with no pitcher that has gone a full 190+ IP.

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That's kind of my thinking.

Is it possible to keep the lineup equally strong for next year, still sell some pieces or acquire something cheap, but not jeopardize our chances for next year?

Free agency should be big for us this offseason regardless of what happens the rest of this season.

Confirmed... Mike Bacsik

DallasAg 94 said:

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Confirmed... Mike Bacsik

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I thought you were leaving the thread and not coming back?

Huell Babineaux said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Confirmed... Mike Bacsik

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I thought you were leaving the thread and not coming back?

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Lasted 3 days, give or take...

Couple interesting responses from TR Sullivan's Q&A: https://www.mlb.com/rangers/news/mike-minor-trade-inbox-questions

Quote:

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Seeing the realistic contention window and the perception of overachieving, would the Rangers be better off keeping Mike Minor and Lance Lynn and gradually building off them in the next couple of years or trading Minor for the long-term future?
-- Timothy S., Rowlett, Texas
Keep them both. This blather about trading Minor is ridiculous. OK, there might be some team out there so eager and desperate for starting pitching they would be willing to load two or three prime prospects in a deal so attractive, it's irresistible. But the Rangers are moving into a new ballpark next season with a strong nucleus of offensive players begging to be surrounded by dependable starting pitching. A weary fan base wants to see the same thing.
Trade Minor and/or Lynn and the Rangers will be spending another winter trying to piece together a starting rotation. The smarter option is to keep them, see how Adrian Sampson, Ariel Jurado and Joe Palumbo develop, check out what is available this winter and, yes, build around Lynn and Minor.
When's the earliest chance you think the Rangers could have a legitimate chance to make a deep playoff run? Would next season be too soon? 2021?
-- Janae E., Holliday, Texas
This year would have been a real possibility if the Rangers had picked up options on Cole Hamels and Martin Perez. That's not a cheap second-guess. The simple fact is the Rangers have the offensive potential to be a strong postseason team, and they have shown the ability to put together a strong bullpen. It always comes down to assembling a strong rotation with four reliable starting pitchers. That's the Rangers' challenge annually and still is despite all this rhetoric about building something sustainable for the long-term. There need not be a "target" year for that to happen. It could happen any year with the right moves. Minor and Lynn were great signings. Shelby Miller, Drew Smyly and Edinson Volquez were not.
Is acquiring Marcus Stroman a possibility before the July 31 Trade Deadline?
-- Justin G., Mansfield, Texas
That depends on how aggressive the Rangers want to be, and the gut feeling is they won't be leading the charge on this one. As opposed to pitchers Madison Bumgarner and Zack Wheeler, who would both be two-month rentals, Stroman can't be a free agent until after next season. That might make him the most coveted starting pitcher at the July 31 Trade Deadline and beyond the Rangers' reach.
Do you expect the Rangers to be buyers at the Trade Deadline, and how deep into our farm system will we be willing to dig?
-- Doug I., Orange, Texas
The Rangers will be selective buyers and there are certainly some crown jewels of the farm system that will be close to untouchable. That list includes Palumbo and other pitchers like Jonathan Hernandez, Hans Crouse, Cole Winn and Brock Burke. The interesting scenario are the three highly regarded young outfielders: Bubba Thompson, Leody Taveras and Julio Pablo Martinez. It will be interesting to see if the Rangers try to move one of those three for a young pitcher of equal talent.

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I knew it!

DallasAg 94 said:

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You sound like me any year, except this one.

I'm hearing what you are saying. I'm the guy who thinks we are still a contender, until mathematically eliminated.

JD took my spirit this year. He set this season as a throw-away, which I couldn't stand. He filled every open roster spot with guys he hoped would perform well enough to have trade value at the deadline, and invested nothing in the long-term.

As it turned out... he struck blackjack twice on a pair of Kings split.

They are playing too well to sell, and have too many holes to buy. Improving from Sampson to Bailey would frustrate me, because it might improve the W/L a little... might hurt it... and we'd still be meh.

We need 3 RP, 3 SP, a couple RH bats... and that is if Minor and Lynn can get past 160 IP.

We have the hitting to match anyone, and the pitching to lose to anyone.

I remind myself we came into the season with no pitcher that has gone a full 190+ IP.

---

Yeah I get that viewpoint and don't necessarily disagree, I just think making the playoffs is a huge win from a business standpoint and attracting FA. If we make some small deals that get us to the WC and we lose, I think that's a big win. We can sell that the "rebuild" is way ahead of schedule to entice SP they are the missing piece, get to start in a new park that should be more pitcher friendly and the ticket sales will go up for 2020. The most successful franchise don't win the ship every year but they are always lurking in the playoff picture besides maybe a year or two. I think we can get back without a full scale blow up of the roster. I wish they would have traded Mazara last summer while his value was much higher. I still think they should if they can get some pitching from Atlanta or SD or another deep farm.

Rossko said:

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Yeah I get that viewpoint and don't necessarily disagree, I just think making the playoffs is a huge win from a business standpoint and attracting FA. If we make some small deals that get us to the WC and we lose, I think that's a big win. We can sell that the "rebuild" is way ahead of schedule to entice SP they are the missing piece, get to start in a new park that should be more pitcher friendly and the ticket sales will go up for 2020. The most successful franchise don't win the ship every year but they are always lurking in the playoff picture besides maybe a year or two. I think we can get back without a full scale blow up of the roster. I wish they would have traded Mazara last summer while his value was much higher. I still think they should if they can get some pitching from Atlanta or SD or another deep farm.

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To me, the uncertainty about how the new stadium will play would be a bigger risk factor to attract new SP, than the Rangers FO giving their intention that it will be more pitcher friendly.

Hamels came to the Rangers with an understanding that he didn't want a tear-down rebuild, which led him to the Rangers, instead of the Astros. JD tore down the team and we became a full-blown rebuild.

JD espoused his interest in a 6-Man rotation, and Hamels was vocally opposed in a way you don't normally see a player speak out against the FO.

The only thing that will attract FA SP... is money... and years. I don't see JD going 5-6 years for a legit established FA SP. That means we'll roll: Minor-Lynn-Jurado and then look at Palumbo, Sampson, Chavez, and a couple ST invitees, like Hearn, Burke, Payano, YoMen... Probably pick up a couple spares like Volq and Miller... you know recent TJ/Shoulder surgery guys.

We were at $165M in 2017 and currently at $118M. We needed a SP boost, and couldn't get Keuchel at $13M.

This off-season, the splash will be about how we locked up Gallo. We'll put payroll around $145-150M and the FO will pat each other on the back.

So the price for starting pitching help just went up a little more, with one less viable option out there. I don't think we make a move for a front line SP right now anyway, unless it's more of a salary dump that doesn't cost much in the way of prospects.

Taylor Hearn, haven't heard much about him lately. Maybe he will be ready to go again soon. He was called up for that one start (that went terribly), and has been on the shelf since then.

The UCL strains love to seem to follow the pattern of rest, rehab, tear it, TJ.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Rossko said:

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Yeah I get that viewpoint and don't necessarily disagree, I just think making the playoffs is a huge win from a business standpoint and attracting FA. If we make some small deals that get us to the WC and we lose, I think that's a big win. We can sell that the "rebuild" is way ahead of schedule to entice SP they are the missing piece, get to start in a new park that should be more pitcher friendly and the ticket sales will go up for 2020. The most successful franchise don't win the ship every year but they are always lurking in the playoff picture besides maybe a year or two. I think we can get back without a full scale blow up of the roster. I wish they would have traded Mazara last summer while his value was much higher. I still think they should if they can get some pitching from Atlanta or SD or another deep farm.

---

To me, the uncertainty about how the new stadium will play would be a bigger risk factor to attract new SP, than the Rangers FO giving their intention that it will be more pitcher friendly.

Hamels came to the Rangers with an understanding that he didn't want a tear-down rebuild, which led him to the Rangers, instead of the Astros. JD tore down the team and we became a full-blown rebuild.

JD espoused his interest in a 6-Man rotation, and Hamels was vocally opposed in a way you don't normally see a player speak out against the FO.

The only thing that will attract FA SP... is money... and years. I don't see JD going 5-6 years for a legit established FA SP. That means we'll roll: Minor-Lynn-Jurado and then look at Palumbo, Sampson, Chavez, and a couple ST invitees, like Hearn, Burke, Payano, YoMen... Probably pick up a couple spares like Volq and Miller... you know recent TJ/Shoulder surgery guys.

We were at $165M in 2017 and currently at $118M. We needed a SP boost, and couldn't get Keuchel at $13M.

This off-season, the splash will be about how we locked up Gallo. We'll put payroll around $145-150M and the FO will pat each other on the back.

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Not really uncertainty in my opinion, it can't play worse than the current park for pitching...

Old Tom Morris said:

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The UCL strains love to seem to follow the pattern of rest, rehab, tear it, TJ, sign with the Rangers.

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FIFY

Excited to see Jung develop. I think he could end up being a very good player. Seems like he's off to a good start.

This is from an ESPN article about who each teams should trade or acquire:

The Rangers "need a first baseman and Belt's numbers would take a leap moving over from San Francisco. The Giants will have to pay down part of Belt's contract (he is signed for 2020 and 2021 at $17.2 million per season), but he would be a major upgrade over Ronald Guzman."

No thanks. Don't see this really helping that much this year or the next 2.

slop01 said:

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This is from an ESPN article about who each teams should trade or acquire:

The Rangers "need a first baseman and Belt's numbers would take a leap moving over from San Francisco. The Giants will have to pay down part of Belt's contract (he is signed for 2020 and 2021 at $17.2 million per season), but he would be a major upgrade over Ronald Guzman."

No thanks. Don't see this really helping that much this year or the next 2.

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I get where he's coming from tho.

The big knock on Guzman is the guy can't hit.

gigem1223 said:

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Calhoun demoted??? What in the frick are we doing?

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Yeah.....

I was hoping it would be Guzman.

Santana and Forsythe could handle first, send Guzman down. Defense would suffer a little, but you can't have a 1B hitting .200 on the season. Especially when your 3B isn't hitting much better and your 2B is below that.

If we can't clear the glut of OF's, need to consider moving Gallo back to 1B this off season. I know they don't want to change positions on him during the season, but off season should be more palatable.