It isn't a comparison, so much as perspective.TXAggie2011 said:
Altuve was an MVP candidate by age 25. He posted a better WAR as a 24 year old than Odor has in his entire career combined.
There are ways to defend Odor. Trying to reopen that dumb Altuve-Odor comparison thing again is not one of the better ways.
I don't disagree he needs to get going this season. I just don't see why so many dislike him.TXAggie2011 said:
By the way, I don't have angst over the contract value. And the point isn't to call Odor a failed player.
The point is to say it's time get it together.
And another BTW, something like 7 of the top 9 AL MVP candidates last year were 24 to 26 years old.
He seems like someone kids would love because he has that "all or nothing" kind of swing, he never really takes walks, he's always up there swinging.DannyDuberstein said:
I think some of the hate for Odor is partly because he's such a cold and hot roller coaster. He is such a hole in the lineup when he's off, and he's off for extended periods. It's hard to grow fond of a guy who just disappears with bad AB after bad AB for extended periods.
And he has a rep for starting cold and finishing cold, which tends to make a lasting negative impression. The variation in his monthly splits across his career are kind of amazing given how many seasons he has under his belt now:
April (March) - .195 avg/ .600 OPS
May - .226 / 618
June - .265 / .778
July - .298 / .890 (his month)
Aug - .246 / .741
Sept (Oct) - .223 / .686
Grapesoda2525 said:
He seems like someone kids would love because he has that "all or nothing" kind of swing, he never really takes walks, he's always up there swinging.
Quote:
I hate him because he seems to be a knucklehead.
Quote:
you can tell he's a selfish player.
So, it really is just personal, for you. You don't like the guy and no amount of production on the field will change that for you. Fair enough.Quote:
On top of all that, he looks like an Iraqi car bomber, the open shirt, the gold chain, pine tar helmet. Is the guy trying to be cool or something?
Quote:
This game is all about getting on base, and he rarely does that.
I was just telling my wife at Saturday night's game that if Odor got orders not to swing the bat in any at bats for the next month, his OBP would be 0.750.Grapesoda2525 said:
Odor would get a 3 ball count, he would think "I've got him now, he will give me something to hit". However, the pitcher knows that odor swings at more bad pitches then almost anybody, he throws odor bad pitches, odor swings at them, and strikes out. All odor has to do is take a bunch of walks and force the pitcher to give him better pitches to hit.
I think it's stupid. What if the other team has a Justin verlander or Clayton Kershaw? The all or nothing approach could be playing right into their hands. The focus should be that outs are precious, you only get 27 of them, use them wisely. I still look closely at a players batting average and on base percentage when I judge a player.DallasAg 94 said:Grapesoda2525 said:
He seems like someone kids would love because he has that "all or nothing" kind of swing, he never really takes walks, he's always up there swinging.Quote:
I hate him because he seems to be a knucklehead.Quote:
you can tell he's a selfish player.So, it really is just personal, for you. You don't like the guy and no amount of production on the field will change that for you. Fair enough.Quote:
On top of all that, he looks like an Iraqi car bomber, the open shirt, the gold chain, pine tar helmet. Is the guy trying to be cool or something?Quote:
This game is all about getting on base, and he rarely does that.
This game is about scoring runs, and league-wide, the focus has swung from hitting for average to hitting HRs. I don't like you. You don't like it... but it isn't an Odor led transition. Rob Deer was way before his time.
Is it changing back? It appears to be the case for the Rangers. But before this year... all of the talking-heads I listened to on the radio, indicated this was an issue throughout baseball... Majors and Minors. You score more runs with a HR than a base hit.
You go .200 and hit a HR every AB, basically 1 out of 5 ABs, you score 1 Run. 3.1 ABs/Game... 162 Games, that's 100 Runs scored if all 100 HRs are one-run HRs. Regardless of outs. Now, we all know that a HR isn't going to happen for every hit.
Where as, you hit .250-.275... protect the plate with 2 strikes, maybe go the opposite way as the shift... take what the defense gives you... You are basically increasing your BA 25%, but giving up the HR.
If you have 2 outs and get a base hit... you likely end up stranded on base. Even if someone gets a hit and moves you around, you could end up with 2 stranded runners.
I prefer a better BA and dislike the all-or-nothing approach, but it is a mentality rooted in analytics and justified by it's supporters.
I don't disagree... and there was a time, when money-ball led managers to view a bunt as giving up a free out.Grapesoda2525 said:
I think it's stupid. What if the other team has a Justin verlander or Clayton Kershaw? The all or nothing approach could be playing right into their hands. The focus should be that outs are precious, you only get 27 of them, use them wisely. I still look closely at a players batting average and on base percentage when I judge a player.
Gallo is still all or nothing. He is just being more selective about the pitches he is swinging at. Some of that has to do with Umpires. He seems to get a lot more pitches in his favor. I don't know that that was the case, 2 years ago. I like what Gallo has done this season. I think we all agree it probably has to do with the hitting coach change.Quote:
About the home runs. Joey gallo is doing it the right way. If he gets something to hit, he mashes it out of the park usually. If the pitcher throws garbage, he goes to first base by taking the walk. We should be trying to drive up the other teams pitch count, wear them out with base runners, get into their bullpen, and never let off the pressure. As a team, we need to do a better job of getting guys on base before gallo hits because most of his home runs have been solo shots.
Perez tonight against TOR: Win, 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 9 KDallasAg 94 said:
In case you needed any further proof of the Greatness of Brocail.
Guess who learned how to pitch, again.
Martin Perez.
6 Games in Minnesota.
His last 3 GS, 18.0 IP, 3.00 ERA.
His first 3 G were out of the bullpen. His last 3 appearances have been GS. I look forward to his continued success.
Twinkies fixed him. Just gotta get over it and move on. At least he didn't end up with the astros or Oakland. He would haunt our dreams for the next 10 years.MSFC Aggie said:Perez tonight against TOR: Win, 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 9 KDallasAg 94 said:
In case you needed any further proof of the Greatness of Brocail.
Guess who learned how to pitch, again.
Martin Perez.
6 Games in Minnesota.
His last 3 GS, 18.0 IP, 3.00 ERA.
His first 3 G were out of the bullpen. His last 3 appearances have been GS. I look forward to his continued success.
Grapesoda2525 said:Twinkies fixed him. Just gotta get over it and move on. At least he didn't end up with the astros or Oakland. He would haunt our dreams for the next 10 years.MSFC Aggie said:Perez tonight against TOR: Win, 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 9 KDallasAg 94 said:
In case you needed any further proof of the Greatness of Brocail.
Guess who learned how to pitch, again.
Martin Perez.
6 Games in Minnesota.
His last 3 GS, 18.0 IP, 3.00 ERA.
His first 3 G were out of the bullpen. His last 3 appearances have been GS. I look forward to his continued success.
"If we had better pitchers who could coach themselves, it'd leave me more time to track what they are throwing."Grapesoda2525 said:
Somewhere at a press conference in Baltimore....
Reporter : Doug! The orioles ERA is last in the league right now. What's going on?
Brocail : * Adjusts his thick glasses and glares at reporter*
"The coaching is great and the strategy is top notch! The guys just aren't executing."
Quote:
Despite Odor's prolonged slump to open season, Rangers not considering demotion to minors
BY JEFF WILSON
One of the quietest places in a major league ballpark on a Sunday morning is the field, outside of the work being done by the grounds crew.
Ballplayers are a rare sight.
There are always exceptions, though, as was the case some four hours before the Texas Rangers and Toronto Blue Jays closed out a three-game series at Globe Life Park.
The batting cage had been towed to home plate, and Rougned Odor was standing inside of it taking front flips. Behind him were as many as four coaches and All-Star Shin-Soo Choo.
Anyone wondering if Odor's slump is related to a lack of work ethic needs to find another conspiracy theory. Maybe it's the Russians.
Maybe the Rangers have found the culprit.
Odor swatted a two-run homer in the second inning Sunday to snap an 0-for-21 slide, and followed it up in the fifth with an RBI single as the Rangers rolled to a 10-2 win. That could be the start of something for Odor.
The Rangers will continue to investigate how one of their spring MVPs could suddenly go wrong. But one thing that won't happen is Odor losing his job in the roster crunch the Rangers will soon be facing.
"I don't think so," manager Chris Woodward said. "He's done everything we've asked. I always tell guys I don't judge them but I evaluate them more when they struggled. This is probably the most he's struggled, and my evaluation of him is as glowing as it was when he was good spring training."
Odor said that his success Sunday was the result of working on his timing before the game. He admitted to being late on pitches, especially fastballs, that he usually hits.
He was assured during his pregame work that he looked good mechanically, and turned the positivity into a solid day.
"I think everybody would take a day like today," Odor said. "I do extra work every day, but today we were working on something different. I was just a little bit late.. I was just trying to be on time."
The lefty-hitting Odor was dropped to sixth in the batting order Sunday vs. Toronto right-hander Clay Buchholz after batting against left-hander Thomas Pannone on Saturday. With the Rangers' next two games at Pittsburgh under National League rules, it wouldn't be a surprise if Odor sat Tuesday against lefty Steven Brault.
That would give Woodward a chance to start Logan Forsythe and Danny Santana. They are two of the candidates who could lose their roster spot Thursday as first baseman Ronald Guzman comes off the 10-day injured list.
The Rangers would have to designate Forsythe or Santana for assignment and then hope that they clear waivers and accept assignment Triple A Nashville. Santana, though, can play center field adequately, which could lead to Delino DeShields getting shipped to Nashville.
The Rangers could also go to a seven-man bullpen.
"If guys are having success, clearly you want to continue to ride that out," Woodward said. "Danny is one guy who I want to see what we've got. He's got to prove to make sure it's real, but he's had a ton of success for us. He provides a lot of value."
General manager Jon Daniels said last week that Guzman, who is rehabbing at Double A Frisco, will rejoin the Rangers after his reinstatement rather than being optioned to Triple A. Guzman homered and doubled Saturday in his first rehab game.
Odor good Buchholz deep on a 2-2 pitch after falling behind 0-2 in the count. He lined to second in his second at-bat before a two-out single in the fifth. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. robbed Odor of a hit in the seventh.
It might have been his best game of the season. It was definitely his best since coming off the injured list last weekend at Seattle.
He needed it, even though he isn't in danger of a trip to the minors.
I like Santana better then odor / Delino.KT 90 said:
We Buried in the middle of this article is upcoming roster moves discussion for when Guzman is activated later this week. It will be one of: Forsythe, Santana, DeShields, or going to a 7 man bullpen.
I'm not sure if DeShields survives. He plays good defense and can run and steal a base. But he's not getting on base and has a weak arm in the outfield. Santana being able to play some in center might be what does DeShields in.Quote:
Despite Odor's prolonged slump to open season, Rangers not considering demotion to minors
BY JEFF WILSON
One of the quietest places in a major league ballpark on a Sunday morning is the field, outside of the work being done by the grounds crew.
Ballplayers are a rare sight.
There are always exceptions, though, as was the case some four hours before the Texas Rangers and Toronto Blue Jays closed out a three-game series at Globe Life Park.
The batting cage had been towed to home plate, and Rougned Odor was standing inside of it taking front flips. Behind him were as many as four coaches and All-Star Shin-Soo Choo.
Anyone wondering if Odor's slump is related to a lack of work ethic needs to find another conspiracy theory. Maybe it's the Russians.
Maybe the Rangers have found the culprit.
Odor swatted a two-run homer in the second inning Sunday to snap an 0-for-21 slide, and followed it up in the fifth with an RBI single as the Rangers rolled to a 10-2 win. That could be the start of something for Odor.
The Rangers will continue to investigate how one of their spring MVPs could suddenly go wrong. But one thing that won't happen is Odor losing his job in the roster crunch the Rangers will soon be facing.
"I don't think so," manager Chris Woodward said. "He's done everything we've asked. I always tell guys I don't judge them but I evaluate them more when they struggled. This is probably the most he's struggled, and my evaluation of him is as glowing as it was when he was good spring training."
Odor said that his success Sunday was the result of working on his timing before the game. He admitted to being late on pitches, especially fastballs, that he usually hits.
He was assured during his pregame work that he looked good mechanically, and turned the positivity into a solid day.
"I think everybody would take a day like today," Odor said. "I do extra work every day, but today we were working on something different. I was just a little bit late.. I was just trying to be on time."
The lefty-hitting Odor was dropped to sixth in the batting order Sunday vs. Toronto right-hander Clay Buchholz after batting against left-hander Thomas Pannone on Saturday. With the Rangers' next two games at Pittsburgh under National League rules, it wouldn't be a surprise if Odor sat Tuesday against lefty Steven Brault.
That would give Woodward a chance to start Logan Forsythe and Danny Santana. They are two of the candidates who could lose their roster spot Thursday as first baseman Ronald Guzman comes off the 10-day injured list.
The Rangers would have to designate Forsythe or Santana for assignment and then hope that they clear waivers and accept assignment Triple A Nashville. Santana, though, can play center field adequately, which could lead to Delino DeShields getting shipped to Nashville.
The Rangers could also go to a seven-man bullpen.
"If guys are having success, clearly you want to continue to ride that out," Woodward said. "Danny is one guy who I want to see what we've got. He's got to prove to make sure it's real, but he's had a ton of success for us. He provides a lot of value."
General manager Jon Daniels said last week that Guzman, who is rehabbing at Double A Frisco, will rejoin the Rangers after his reinstatement rather than being optioned to Triple A. Guzman homered and doubled Saturday in his first rehab game.
Odor good Buchholz deep on a 2-2 pitch after falling behind 0-2 in the count. He lined to second in his second at-bat before a two-out single in the fifth. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. robbed Odor of a hit in the seventh.
It might have been his best game of the season. It was definitely his best since coming off the injured list last weekend at Seattle.
He needed it, even though he isn't in danger of a trip to the minors.
I had seen that, and it was interesting. I was going to mix that in with a "have we decided if the Rangers add or subtract?"KT 90 said:
Buried in the middle of this article is upcoming roster moves discussion for when Guzman is activated later this week. It will be one of: Forsythe, Santana, DeShields, or going to a 7 man bullpen.
I'm not sure if DeShields survives. He plays good defense and can run and steal a base. But he's not getting on base and has a weak arm in the outfield. Santana being able to play some in center might be what does DeShields in.
Ranger #007 said:
Hell, at this point I just don't want them to get good enough that they decide to throw prospects at some trade on a Hail Mary pass to do something in the playoffs if they hang on somehow.
jtstanley4621 said:
So far this season the offense has been MORE than good enough to win a majority of the games. The pitching (outside of Minor) has overall let the team down. Sure enough: Gallo hits a 2 run homer, Miller gives up a 2 run homer.
Fourth best in the league in runs scored...jtstanley4621 said:
So far this season the offense has been MORE than good enough to win a majority of the games. The pitching (outside of Minor) has overall let the team down. Sure enough: Gallo hits a 2 run homer, Miller gives up a 2 run homer.
Put those two things together and you have.... a team that will hover right around .500, which is exactly what the Rangers appear to be this season.Lt. Joe Bookman said:Fourth best in the league in runs scored...jtstanley4621 said:
So far this season the offense has been MORE than good enough to win a majority of the games. The pitching (outside of Minor) has overall let the team down. Sure enough: Gallo hits a 2 run homer, Miller gives up a 2 run homer.
Third worst in ERA
