I'm in on Happ.aggie1906 said:
Kind of a random name, but what about JA Happ? I know he didn't work out here the first time around, but the Jays are in last in the AL East, he's under contract in 2018, and is just been damn good these last few years. He'll be cheaper prospect wise than some of the other names thrown out lately. Assuming there is no major elbow issue then why not?
***** Official Houston Astros 2017 Season Thread *****
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Last: 6 yr ago by AstroAggie15
aggie1906 said:
Kind of a random name, but what about JA Happ? I know he didn't work out here the first time around, but the Jays are in last in the AL East, he's under contract in 2018, and is just been damn good these last few years. He'll be cheaper prospect wise than some of the other names thrown out lately. Assuming there is no major elbow issue then why not?
Was also curious about osuna speaking of the blue jays. Got a 2.40 ERA and good strikeout numbers.
Beat40 said:
I just want to make it clear I am in no way in favor of becoming the Marlins.
I absolutely agree with wanting sustained success over a quick window. Lunhow has turned us into a solid organization from the top to bottom.
That being said, I'm just stating that maybe a calculated risk this season may be worth it given the top end of the rotation has been experience some health issues. Of course there is no guarantee.
There is also no guarantee that Springer, Correa, or Altuve will be here when their contracts are up. That right there shortens the window itself.
Nobody is that crazy... what they did after winning the World Series in 1997 was insane. It would be the equivalent of the Astros trading away Springer, Correa, Keuchel, mccullers, bregman, Devo, and Fisher after 2020.
shano0603 said:Beat40 said:
I just want to make it clear I am in no way in favor of becoming the Marlins.
I absolutely agree with wanting sustained success over a quick window. Lunhow has turned us into a solid organization from the top to bottom.
That being said, I'm just stating that maybe a calculated risk this season may be worth it given the top end of the rotation has been experience some health issues. Of course there is no guarantee.
There is also no guarantee that Springer, Correa, or Altuve will be here when their contracts are up. That right there shortens the window itself.
Nobody is that crazy... what they did after winning the World Series in 1997 was insane. It would be the equivalent of the Astros trading away Springer, Correa, Keuchel, mccullers, bregman, Devo, and Fisher after 2020.
If we won the WS and if the marlins gave you Gordon and Stanton and their top 5 minor league prospects and every draft pick they have for the next 3 years would you do it?
I agree, but I think this is a perfect storm situation for the Astros to make one or two deals for pitching that don't mean we've completely mortgaged the future.CSWendt said:
Baseball is a weird sport where rarely the best team wins it all. It comes down to the hottest team during playoffs. In my opinion, 4-5 years of playoffs is a better chance at winning a title, than going for it all one year, and hoping you get lucky that year.
1. In this last year of the current system of free agent international signings, the Astros went all in...signed a large class and paying the 100% salary penalty.
2. They had a larger than usual high-end draft class (with the St. Louis compensation picks).
3. They have a AAA roster laden with guys who have played briefly in the majors.
I'm assuming K. Tucker is untouchable, but Martes/Paulino and some of the AAA guys (Reed, Teoscar, Fisher...maybe Kemp) should net a couple of arms.
I think the Astros can both make a run for this year and be set up for a 4-5 year window of consistent high-level baseball.
bullard21k said:shano0603 said:Beat40 said:
I just want to make it clear I am in no way in favor of becoming the Marlins.
I absolutely agree with wanting sustained success over a quick window. Lunhow has turned us into a solid organization from the top to bottom.
That being said, I'm just stating that maybe a calculated risk this season may be worth it given the top end of the rotation has been experience some health issues. Of course there is no guarantee.
There is also no guarantee that Springer, Correa, or Altuve will be here when their contracts are up. That right there shortens the window itself.
Nobody is that crazy... what they did after winning the World Series in 1997 was insane. It would be the equivalent of the Astros trading away Springer, Correa, Keuchel, mccullers, bregman, Devo, and Fisher after 2020.
If we won the WS and if the marlins gave you Gordon and Stanton and their top 5 minor league prospects and every draft pick they have for the next 3 years would you do it?
Maybe lol if it means we win a World Series.
For a guaranteed world series win? There's not much I wouldn't do for that.
I'm not against a trade. I'm just against a trade for a ace starter, which would likely require tucker or Martes, and fisher and maybe someone else. To me, those 3 guys have a high end chance of being All-stars in their career. Unless we can control an Ace for 2-3 years then I'm a no. And when I say "ace" I'm not considering Quintana or Cole an ace.
It's unrealistic to think we could acquire a pitcher good enough to take us to the next level without 2 of the 3 guys listed above.
It's unrealistic to think we could acquire a pitcher good enough to take us to the next level without 2 of the 3 guys listed above.
IMO, there are no pitchers available that would provide a significant enough boost to warrant trading away any of our top prospects. Unless you can get an ace (Chris Sale type of guy), there is no point in making a move. We already have a formidable 1/2 punch with McCullers and Keuchel. Unless you are getting a guy back that is a significant upgrade over Morton/McHugh (3rd starter for the postseason), there is no point in making a deal. If an ace becomes available, make a move. If not, stand pat.
That being said, I wouldn't mind us moving some mid level prospects for a left handed reliever.
That being said, I wouldn't mind us moving some mid level prospects for a left handed reliever.
Not to mention, Brad Peacock is looking more and more like the real deal. I would hate to see us make a move just to make a move.
You make a move to avoid having to start Fiers or McHugh in a playoff series. Peacock will benign the pen by then so make a move to improve your top 3 pitchers. He's improved but sure as hell can't trust Fiers or a recovering McHugh pitching game 3 of an ALDS. And this is all assuming Dallas comes back and pitches like Dallas and doesn't require surgery etc. I think that is being overlooked. He goes down again and you have one top tier guy.
There are plenty of available arms that are better than Fiers and McHugh. All of Ivan Nova, Trevor Cahill, JA Happ and Jacob Degrom are all above and beyond what we have now and I think can be had for 1 of the big three.
There's no point in stockpiling prospects in the system for the future. We've been there and done that and the future for this team is now.
I'm all for making a move that gets us arms even if it's a Quintana or Gray. I just don't want a rental. If it's a guy that can come in an improve us a bit even if under performing this year but can be a mainstay #3 for a couple more that's great.
Basically the time is now and there's no way I want to go into the playoffs with the rotation we have now.
There are plenty of available arms that are better than Fiers and McHugh. All of Ivan Nova, Trevor Cahill, JA Happ and Jacob Degrom are all above and beyond what we have now and I think can be had for 1 of the big three.
There's no point in stockpiling prospects in the system for the future. We've been there and done that and the future for this team is now.
I'm all for making a move that gets us arms even if it's a Quintana or Gray. I just don't want a rental. If it's a guy that can come in an improve us a bit even if under performing this year but can be a mainstay #3 for a couple more that's great.
Basically the time is now and there's no way I want to go into the playoffs with the rotation we have now.
I'm offering a ticket to tomorrow's game. Anyone want it?
Agree. Don't mind losing prospects for a reliable pitcher with major league credentials as long as he is not a rental. Prospects by definition are unproven at the MLB level. There are untouchable "can't miss" guys but most prospects don't fit that description. In addition to your concern about Fiers and McHugh in playoff baseball, there is the contingency that should be addressed. That is that we are counting on McCullers and Keuchel staying healthy. Down the stretch you don't really know. The future of the Astros is now. Just don't lose too many prospects for rental players.
I'm against making a deal at this point. Between Martes, Paulino, and Peacock, we have shown we have enough quality starting pitching to keep winning at a high rate. Do I want to depend on them in the playoffs? Absolutely not.. as starters. But why would we now trade Martes when he has shown he is the real deal and can help us now? Can you imagine his curve ball in the pen for the playoffs? Fiers can give you 1-2 innings before he blows up. All I'm saying is that we would be trading a top prospect who is a quality starter now for marginally better results. Not to mention what else we would lose. Fisher is a starter.. platoon at worst next year. Tucker looks like the real deal. You don't give those away for a rented player when you can win with what you have. I'm in it for the long game. I would rather be in the playoffs every year then gear up for one big run.
To go along with that, I don't feel like most people on here realize that they are just prospects, and far from a sure thing. Anyone remember how high Astros fan were on Jason Hirsh back in the day? Or AJ Reed and Jon Singleton recently. Tucker is the only guy in our system that can be called a can't miss. And that's can't miss to be a major leaguer, not a star.
Id do some dirty things to have the Astros win a World Series. When you have this good of a team, I don't think you can pass up improving it, as long as you don't give up the world.
Id do some dirty things to have the Astros win a World Series. When you have this good of a team, I don't think you can pass up improving it, as long as you don't give up the world.
mazag08 said:
I'm in it for the long game. I would rather be in the playoffs every year then gear up for one big run.
With our depth on the farm and the young core in the show we can do both.
I agree on Fisher and Tucker, but guys like Reed, Kemp, JD Davis, Perez, and White are all expendable.
Find someone you can get for Martes and one of Fisher/Tucker plus a bunch of the guys above and make it happen.
We'd be essentially be upgrading on Martes for a few years and still keeping one of the young stud OFers. And Martes is not ready right now. That was clear by his wildness and absolutely horrible body language the other day. In no way shape or form do I want him coming out of the pen in a playofff game. He'll get it figured out but I think he's still at best a year away from being a 3-5 type pitcher.
Just have to stay away from rentals who will walk. Not worth it for 3 months but if we can get 2-3 years of control I'm OK with losing 2/3 of the Martes, Fisher, Tucker.
To answer your question, NO I don't want Martes anywhere near the diamond during playoff baseball. Filthy breaking ball or not. He doesn't have command. He would be a ticking time bomb in the playoffs.
Regular season baseball is but one indicator. Cleveland and the back end of that bullpen would be more than a formidable opponent in a white knuckle type series.
Regular season baseball is but one indicator. Cleveland and the back end of that bullpen would be more than a formidable opponent in a white knuckle type series.
So glad Cole Hamels vetoed the trade here.
Indeed
About trading for controllable pitchers...
About trading for controllable pitchers...
And Tucker isn't untouchable... If you could get a stud hitter off a bad team, I'd trade him. For example, Votto(not taking into consideration he's signed for another 7 years at 25+ million a year). But someone like that.
Not sure if serious?shano0603 said:
And Tucker isn't untouchable... If you could get a stud hitter off a bad team, I'd trade him. For example, Votto(not taking into consideration he's signed for another 7 years at 25+ million a year). But someone like that.
Votto is a great hitter... do not get me wrong here, but that's the type of contract that completely limits a francise and you start seeing guys walk like Correa and Altuve. That contract goes until Votto is 40.
Keuchel's beard
The twitter account posted
"Gomez struck out three times tonight in a game his team scored 9 times "
Then I saw that Lance McCullers Jr liked it
The twitter account posted
"Gomez struck out three times tonight in a game his team scored 9 times "
Then I saw that Lance McCullers Jr liked it
And talk about bullpen troubles... up 9-2 and lose 15-9, ouch.
yep, he's another cautionary tale about taking on big contracts for pitchers over 30
I meant I wouldn't take Votto because of that contract(sorry for the wording). I just meant a player of his caliberirish pete ag06 said:Not sure if serious?shano0603 said:
And Tucker isn't untouchable... If you could get a stud hitter off a bad team, I'd trade him. For example, Votto(not taking into consideration he's signed for another 7 years at 25+ million a year). But someone like that.
Votto is a great hitter... do not get me wrong here, but that's the type of contract that completely limits a francise and you start seeing guys walk like Correa and Altuve. That contract goes until Votto is 40.
Man I don't want to give up an asset like Tucker for a bat when the offense is one of the best in league while we're trotting out a AAA rotation and could use a stout BP arm.
If you're gonna part with Tucker make it for a pitcher of some sort.
If you're gonna part with Tucker make it for a pitcher of some sort.
I got ya.
Epic old school melt
That was effing epic
That was effing epic
Quote:
Who is that guy? I'd love to see Hinch lose his **** just once like that.
Wally freaking Backman. '86 Mets. Still hurts.
All of this trade talk hinges on the idea that you could get an ace for 2+ years without selling the farm. That's a fantasy. Any "ace" you want with control A: doesn't exists and B: is gonna cost you any star players in the next 3 years of your farm system.
We haven't even factored in yet that 90% of the AL is still in wild card contention so simple economics says if the demand exceeds the supply then the price goes up.
We haven't even factored in yet that 90% of the AL is still in wild card contention so simple economics says if the demand exceeds the supply then the price goes up.
That's why people are talking about Cole, DeGromm, Quintana, and Gray who aren't really in the playoff mix... Archer and the Rays are, but there's not a ton of value in being a one and done. And it's going to be really hard for them to stay ahead of the Red Sox, Indians, yankees and Twins.CSWendt said:
All of this trade talk hinges on the idea that you could get an ace for 2+ years without selling the farm. That's a fantasy. Any "ace" you want with control A: doesn't exists and B: is gonna cost you any star players in the next 3 years of your farm system.
We haven't even factored in yet that 90% of the AL is still in wild card contention so simple economics says if the demand exceeds the supply then the price goes up.
Let's go have a beer Doug...
Awesome
Awesome
Not sure an "ace" is out there that makes sense but someone better than Fiers and McHugh should be available. Considering how tightly strung McCullers seems to be physically, I don't believe the Astros are done. Preferably someone with some contract years left.
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