***** Official Houston Astros 2017 Season Thread *****

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Furlock Bones
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In reply to rosco511 • 10:21a, 10/30/17
AG
rosco511 said:
I heard Harold Reynolds talking about the decreasing effectiveness of bullpen pitchers as the series progresses as a result of the hitters getting a lot more looks at the pen pitchers in a short amount of time rather than the pitchers being overused or tired. I think there is a lot to this. Most of these guys are in bullpen because they were not good enough to be starters but still have at least one or two good pitches. During the season, they are able to perform really well because hitters may at most get two at bats off of them in a series, but in these long series and with use of bullpens going up, the hitters get more opportunities to see them and decreases effectiveness.
this series is seriously about game 2. Roberts hooked hill way too early. i fully believe we are at best down 3-2 going to LA or even more likely we lose the series 4-1 if he left Hill in that game.
aka Sloan Kettering aka Lazlo Hollyfeld
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Bryan98
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In reply to Texaggie7nine • 10:21a, 10/30/17
AG
Texaggie7nine said:
Whatever the f happens Tues and Wed, we have got to fortiy our bullpen, and at the very least our closer position next season. My heart cannot take another season of closers who regularly give up runs.
Amen. Biggest change we need. New closer for certain, and some middle relievers would be nice, too.
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irish pete ag06
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In reply to Mr.Ackar07 • 10:22a, 10/30/17
AG
That's a great idea.
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Mr.Ackar07
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10:23a, 10/30/17
As of right now, Springer is your WS MVP if the Astros close it out.

He was big in game 2, broke up the no-hitter in game 4 but the bullpen couldn't hang on, and was part of every single big inning in game 5.

If Bregman comes up big again in game 6 tomorrow, I think he takes it though.
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irish pete ag06
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 10:24a, 10/30/17
AG
Farmer1906 said:
So its 5-4 in the bottom of the 8th and you just PH for an exhausted Verlander. Who do you go to finish the job? Devo? McCullers? Morton? Harris?
I'm still with Devo. Best ability to get righties and lefties out. The damn pitch that Puig hit and that the game tying run came in on were both good pitches that were just incredible pieces of hitting.

Outside of him:

Harris



And don't laugh. Gregerson. He's a vet and he's been seen the least out of all the relievers.
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bearkatag15
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10:28a, 10/30/17
AG
More tears:

Quote:
Kershaw = peyton manning: He will go down as one of the greatest regular season players ever. Post-season leaves a lot to be desired. He may get a ring or two like Peyton did but he will forever be known as a mediocre playoff performer.
Quote:
It's a fascinating thing to watch--and disappointing. But, without a solid Kershaw, we have a pretty mediocre looking rotation. Kershaw keeps bouncing back and forth between being dominating and choking. I can't explain it.
Quote:
It's the era of soft pitchers with a couple of old schoolers like Verlander mixed in. I can't remember the last time Kershaw pitched a complete game and psychologically once he gives up runs he becomes a Triple AAA quality pitcher.

My only excuse for him is the overuse early in his career during the playoffs. He started his decline this year and if he opts out I don't see the Dodgers resigning him for big money.
Quote:
Minute Maid Park: Every bit as bad as Coors' and Chase
Quote:
I won't miss that annoying train whistle.
Quote:
I hate baseball parks where they have to have effing gimics to excite their lower mentallity fans,,,,,trains or giant Coke bottles or moving sculptures,,,,why can't they build ballparks like ours

MM park looks yuge too
Quote:
As we saw in games two and five no matter the offensive effort it's one run too little. I think that's what this team will be; the just not enough team.

The bullpen is putrid right now, the starting pitching a coin flip and...well that's it.
Quote:
Hard to imagine winning two straight, and we do seem to be on the downside of the slug-fests. The guys are fighting to the end, and you have to love that, but the Astros are winning fights. Only one team walks away champions, and the Astros are looking like they're the team that wants it most. Kershaw--what can you say? There are guys who get it done in the playoffs. Kersh seems to choke and then come through and then choke and come through. If you can't win with Kersh on the mound, I don't like our chances--ever. This should have been the dagger in the Astros heart--unless Kersh blows up...
Quote:
Unfortunately you are going to be right. Mismanaging and destiny. Astros deserve it.

I'm upset but my only wish is that they continue to improve and come back next year without Dave Roberts.

It has all trickled down from Game 2. Taking Rich Hill out so early, not leaving Darvish in just destroyed the BP and they haven't recovered. Maeda was due for bad game and it came at the wrong time.

Astros are a great team with better managing and hitting period.
Quote:
The fan in me says they can do it. My mind says Verlander comes out, deals and Dodgers lose 4-1. I will say if the Dodgers force a game 7 they have the advantage but have to find a way to get past Verlander. He does have a bad history in the world series, maybe he pulls a Kershaw.
Quote:
We played against 10 guys all night and finally got us in the end.
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Was too upset to post last night. But this is all going back to that Game 2 and I will also say Game 3. Whatever happened to pitchers pitching until the very end? Kershaw has no excuse, although I will say the slippery baseball rumor going around is interesting. It's going to hurt watching Houston celebrate at the Stadium but I am hoping this isn't our only year and we can come back next year to win it all.
Quote:
F Gurriel and his permanent cold sore!
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Why didn't we just crush this dude's cheekbone?
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Welcome to World Series follies starring Ace "I can't go five" Kershaw, and Dave "lets throw something against the wall and see if it sticks" Roberts, with special guest star Mr Callemwide Umpire
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Should have brought Stripling in and deck Gurriel right here. No better time than now!
Quote:
Their hitters are not afraid of any retaliation whatsoever.


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Wizard
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10:29a, 10/30/17
Y'all do realize if we had a closer Bregs would have walked off Jansen twice and last night we would be World Series champs.
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rosco511
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In reply to irish pete ag06 • 10:29a, 10/30/17
AG
I likely vote McCullers, and I am with you on Gregerson. The Dodgers have not seen him that much, and he did close for the WBC champions this year.
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BeowulfShaeffer
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In reply to CreedBratton • 10:30a, 10/30/17
AG
CreedBratton said:
Wabs said:
Nuke LaLoosh said:


100-2, bltch.
Is the 1 the Astros from last night? Or was the record 100-1 coming into last night and we made it 100-2?

We made it 100-2. Buster sent that tweet before 9:00 PM, so the game still had another 4 more hours before Bregman ended it
Seriously? It's still 100-1. Y'all know Kershaw got a no-decision, right? He didn't pitch long enough to be the pitcher of record, regardless. Jansen took the loss.
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rosco511
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In reply to BeowulfShaeffer • 10:31a, 10/30/17
AG
The tweet was about team record, not Kershaw's individual record.
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AustinAg2K
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 10:32a, 10/30/17
Farmer1906 said:
So its 5-4 in the bottom of the 8th and you just PH for an exhausted Verlander. Who do you go to finish the job? Devo? McCullers? Morton? Harris?
Pointless hypothetical. We all know Verlander is going to throw a no-no tomorrow.
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3rdGen2015
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In reply to BeowulfShaeffer • 10:32a, 10/30/17
AG
BeowulfShaeffer said:
CreedBratton said:
Wabs said:
Nuke LaLoosh said:


100-2, bltch.
Is the 1 the Astros from last night? Or was the record 100-1 coming into last night and we made it 100-2?

We made it 100-2. Buster sent that tweet before 9:00 PM, so the game still had another 4 more hours before Bregman ended it
Seriously? It's still 100-1. Y'all know Kershaw got a no-decision, right? He didn't pitch long enough to be the pitcher of record, regardless. Jansen took the loss.
It doesn't say that Kershaw was 100-1 with 4+ runs of support, it says the Dodgers were.

100-2.
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bullard21k
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 10:32a, 10/30/17
AG
Farmer1906 said:
So its 5-4 in the bottom of the 8th and you just PH for an exhausted Verlander. Who do you go to finish the job? Devo? McCullers? Morton? Harris?

Mcculers

If he blows the save - plan on letting Morton start game 7 and have Mcculers lined up right behind him in the bullpen.

Personally I wouldn't touch lirano, gregerson, harris or Giles right now.

Mccugh settled in his second inning. I think we should have trotted him back out there instead of peacock. I think that first inning he pitched he was very erratic but imo because he hasn't hardly pitched in over 2 weeks
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jkag89
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In reply to BeowulfShaeffer • 10:33a, 10/30/17
Never mind, 3rdGen2015 beat me to it.

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iBrad
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10:35a, 10/30/17
AG
Whether it's the telecast or some website, I still don't understand how you accurately plot a three-dimensional strikezone on a two-dimensional chart.

A couple of other things I've noticed with the fox zone:
  • The height of the box doesn't adjust to fit each batter the same
  • The real-time spot of the ball is often different than the replay spot...like two or three inches different

Overall, I thought the strikezone last night was fair and consistently called, especially for a game with that many pitches thrown.
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R-Dog
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 10:36a, 10/30/17
AG
Farmer1906 said:
So its 5-4 in the bottom of the 8th and you just PH for an exhausted Verlander. Who do you go to finish the job? Devo? McCullers? Morton? Harris?
You're going to think I'm crazy. I think I'm crazy.

But I think you go with Gregerson because of what Harold Reynolds was saying. We've barely used him so they have not had a lot of looks at him. I don't have any confidence in anybody we could throw out there, even him. But if he gets shelled, at least I feel like there was a rational reason to go to him instead of seeing the same guys continue to get their tits ripped off.

You're not bringing your game 7 starter McCullers in. Too unusual of a situation to use Morton...that would be outside his comfort zone. Everybody else is a crapshoot.

Most important, they just need to figure out who is responsible for locking Giles in the sh***er before the game starts.
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wangus12
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10:36a, 10/30/17
AG
Quote:
Minute Maid Park: Every bit as bad as Coors' and Chase
I always love this excuse. Because Puig's little bull**** floater doesn't get out either.
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BeowulfShaeffer
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In reply to rosco511 • 10:38a, 10/30/17
AG
rosco511 said:
The tweet was about team record, not Kershaw's individual record.
My Bad. I guess I'm still sleep-deprived! Thanks, all.
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AustinAg2K
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In reply to rosco511 • 10:38a, 10/30/17
rosco511 said:
I heard Harold Reynolds talking about the decreasing effectiveness of bullpen pitchers as the series progresses as a result of the hitters getting a lot more looks at the pen pitchers in a short amount of time rather than the pitchers being overused or tired. I think there is a lot to this. Most of these guys are in bullpen because they were not good enough to be starters but still have at least one or two good pitches. During the season, they are able to perform really well because hitters may at most get two at bats off of them in a series, but in these long series and with use of bullpens going up, the hitters get more opportunities to see them and decreases effectiveness.
I've always found it strange that you go out and spend $20+ million on a guy and then pull him and put in some journeyman or a late call up from AAA. Generally, I agree with the sabermetrics movement in baseball, but I think this is one place they are wrong. You don't pull your clean up hitter because he is 0-2. I don't see why you should pull your top starters just because they give up a run. 9 times out of 10 an off Verlander or Keuchel is better than anything you get from your pen. If it's your #5 starter, its a different story, but you should let your top line starters find their way out of a jam.
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spadilly
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In reply to AustinAg2K • 10:41a, 10/30/17
S
AustinAg2K said:
Farmer1906 said:
So its 5-4 in the bottom of the 8th and you just PH for an exhausted Verlander. Who do you go to finish the job? Devo? McCullers? Morton? Harris?
Pointless hypothetical. We all know Verlander is going to throw a no-no tomorrow.


This wouldn't surprise me one bit.
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aTm2004
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In reply to R-Dog • 10:41a, 10/30/17
AG
Quote:
Most important, they just need to figure out who is responsible for locking Giles in the sh***er before the game starts.

ArticPenguin:
I am a middle aged lesbian with two children. In Texas, the GOP would love to claim I am an unfit parent and take my children.

Response when pressed for proof:
I actually have 6 links, and was getting super pissed the more info I looked up...So, look it up yourself, I am not going to fight about something I know to be true, to a person who would just as soon see me in prison or dead.
https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/2948036/replies/51680255
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JakAg93
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10:46a, 10/30/17
AG
I'd like to save McCullers for game 7 at all costs. I can't imagine burning him in G6, and then losing. That would be a huge downer going in G7.
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saltydog13
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10:46a, 10/30/17
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Typical Cali fan ***** Condescend us because we're "idiots from Texas" and act like Yuli is the devil.

Let's end this tomorrow night
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coastalAg
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In reply to bullard21k • 10:47a, 10/30/17
AG
bullard21k said:
Farmer1906 said:
So its 5-4 in the bottom of the 8th and you just PH for an exhausted Verlander. Who do you go to finish the job? Devo? McCullers? Morton? Harris?

Mcculers

If he blows the save - plan on letting Morton start game 7 and have Mcculers lined up right behind him in the bullpen.

Personally I wouldn't touch lirano, gregerson, harris or Giles right now.

Mccugh settled in his second inning. I think we should have trotted him back out there instead of peacock. I think that first inning he pitched he was very erratic but imo because he hasn't hardly pitched in over 2 weeks
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jkag89
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In reply to iBrad • 10:51a, 10/30/17
iBrad said:
Whether it's the telecast or some website, I still don't understand how you accurately plot a three-dimensional strikezone on a two-dimensional chart.

A couple of other things I've noticed with the fox zone:
  • The height of the box doesn't adjust to fit each batter the same
  • The real-time spot of the ball is often different than the replay spot...like two or three inches different

Overall, I thought the strikezone last night was fair and consistently called, especially for a game with that many pitches thrown.
We all get upset when the blue in the bucket misses a strike/ball call and especially hate inconsistent zones or has a zone that it is so wide that is nearly impossible for hitters to put the ball in play (something that happened in one of the games in the CWS this year) but this is the major reason I do not want a robot calling balls and strikes, I want assurances that whatever system designed has the depth dimension of the plate as well as adjusts to the batters height and natural stance before I will be OK with it.
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halfastros81
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11:03a, 10/30/17
AG
Quote:
So its 5-4 in the bottom of the 8th and you just PH for an exhausted Verlander. Who do you go to finish the job? Devo? McCullers? Morton? Harris?

If I'm making the call it's McCullers with Morton a distant second. The only reason I'd even think about anyone other than McCullers is if I want to save him for Game 7. Imo, if we go to a Game 7 wer'e most likely toast.

As far as the strike zone, it seemed to be very inconsistent. I don't necessarily think it favored one team over the other but it looked like blue called the same pitch a strike or a ball in the same at bat to me.
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BowSowy
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11:06a, 10/30/17
AG
Are Dodgers fans *really* that outraged about Yuli or is it just fauxrage bull**** to try to distract from the fact that they're getting pounded?
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NotGibbs
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11:07a, 10/30/17
I was sitting out in right field, and after Correa's homer in the 7th, our whole section was beer showering. I've never heard MMP even close to as loud as it was then. Then there was the streaker and the pitching change. It must've been over 5 minutes since the homer, and the entire stadium was still crazy loud and partying
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Buck Compton
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11:07a, 10/30/17
AG
Glad a lot of you guys aren't managing. Burn McCullers in 6, because you think we're toast if we play 7? Self-fulfilling prophecy, guys. It would be folly to burn LMJ...

Gregerson
Morton
Devo
Peacock

In that order, change of speed, etc. all works well.
Joe West is a fat piece of **** and a waste of oxygen.
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BowSowy
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11:07a, 10/30/17
AG
Also, I would go Devo with the game on the line. In that moment, I want someone who has experience in an incredibly high leverage situation. I love LMJ but that spot seems like a prime spot for him to meltdown. I also think it would be incredibly dumb to throw your game 7 starter out.
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Mr.Bond
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11:09a, 10/30/17
AG
Quote:

I hate baseball parks where they have to have effing gimics to excite their lower mentallity fans,,,,,trains or giant Coke bottles or moving sculptures,,,,why can't they build ballparks like ours


You mean a characterless **** hole?!



BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


MAGA

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Mr.Bond
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In reply to BowSowy • 11:11a, 10/30/17
AG
BowSowy said:
Are Dodgers fans *really* that outraged about Yuli or is it just fauxrage bull**** to try to distract from the fact that they're getting pounded?
Exactly. The disdain is absolutely comical and fabricated at this point
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


MAGA

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BullSprig07
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In reply to NotGibbs • 11:12a, 10/30/17
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NotGibbs said:
Then there was the streaker and the pitching change. It must've been over 5 minutes since the homer, and the entire stadium was still crazy loud and partying
The streaker was hilarious and fun at the time but it was also a rally killer, just saying. I was in 431.
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bullard21k
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11:14a, 10/30/17
AG
Throwing mcculers 1 innng doesn't "burn" him for game 7. Thats the point. And Morton had a better outing than mcculers did this series so that's hardly throwing up the white flag. A case could be made that Morton is a better option in game 7 anyways.

You have only 3 outs to go for a world championship I roll the dice with the guy with the best stuff in mcculers.

Whose to say you try and save him for game 7 and mcculers gets run by the 4th inning?

There is no right answer here so can we stop talking in absolutes?
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rosco511
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In reply to Buck Compton • 11:16a, 10/30/17
AG
Buck Compton said:
Glad a lot of you guys aren't managing. Burn McCullers in 6, because you think we're toast if we play 7? Self-fulfilling prophecy, guys. It would be folly to burn LMJ...

Gregerson
Morton
Devo
Peacock

In that order, change of speed, etc. all works well.


There is clearly not a right answer, but if you have the lead in a game in which you can win the World Series, is it really considered "burning" McCullers if he is your best option to close out the game?
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