Cot's has the date his contract was purchased so if you understand the rules, it's there for you to see.

It doesn't matter why. It just is. Does it make him less attractive to the White Sox? I don't know and I don't pretend to know---but it does mean he's got to be on the major league roster and taking up innings by 2018. That does lessen flexibility and time to develop him.

DallasAg 94 said:

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And so it begins.

Cubs trade for Quintana.

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Yeah, but he's a pervert, Dude.

Quote:

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Gave up their Top 2 prospects.
#1 Eloy Jimenez (OF-20-A+)- #8 overall, 3rd rated OF: 42G, .271, 8HR, 0SB
#2 Dylan Cease (RHP-21-A)- #63 overall: 13 GS, 2.79 ERA, 51.2 IP, 74K
Matt Rose (1\3B-22-A+): 65G, .227, 14HR, 0SB
Bryant Flete (MIF-24-A+): 70G, .305, 6HR, 4SB <- Probably a Rule V guy

A Texas equivalence, would likely be Tavaeras and YoMen:

#1 Leody Taveras (OF-18-A)- #45 overall: 85G, .260, 5HR, 14 SB
#2 Yohander Mendez (LHP-22-AA)-#46 overall, #5 LHP: 17GS, 3.94 ERA, 1.15 WHIP

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The Texas equivalence as far as what their #1/#2 in their farm system is, yeah.

But WhiteSox don't make this deal without Jimenez, and Texas doesn't have anyone of Jimenez' caliber.

free_mhayden said:

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Quote:

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Gave up their Top 2 prospects.
#1 Eloy Jimenez (OF-20-A+)- #8 overall, 3rd rated OF: 42G, .271, 8HR, 0SB
#2 Dylan Cease (RHP-21-A)- #63 overall: 13 GS, 2.79 ERA, 51.2 IP, 74K
Matt Rose (1\3B-22-A+): 65G, .227, 14HR, 0SB
Bryant Flete (MIF-24-A+): 70G, .305, 6HR, 4SB <- Probably a Rule V guy

A Texas equivalence, would likely be Tavaeras and YoMen:

#1 Leody Taveras (OF-18-A)- #45 overall: 85G, .260, 5HR, 14 SB
#2 Yohander Mendez (LHP-22-AA)-#46 overall, #5 LHP: 17GS, 3.94 ERA, 1.15 WHIP

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The Texas equivalence as far as what their #1/#2 in their farm system is, yeah.

But WhiteSox don't make this deal without Jimenez, and Texas doesn't have anyone of Jimenez' caliber.

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I don't think it matters, because Texas doesn't include either guy in a deal for Quintana.

SP isn't the position of need, this year.

AccidentProne said:

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I've said it once before, and I'll say it again. Yu Darvish will be a SP for the Rangers in 2018

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AP - what's your feel for Ohtani? I imagine positive if we keep Darvish.

I imagine they are viewed as a package deal. They know each other and I believe have the same agent. I see re-signing Darvish as a 2 for 1 deal if it also lands you Otani

Otani wants to be in the AL so he can bat more often than he would in the NL. I don't think there are many AL teams that are actually in play for Otani because they don't have enough in their international pool.

I'd put the chances of Texas getting both Darvish and Otani at about 5%.

It really just depends on how badly one of the bigger market teams wants him (Darvish).

If he was really wanting to stay in Texas, then they'd already have a deal in place. He's going to test free agency, and historically that's not a good sign for Texas when it comes to pitching.

free_mhayden said:

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If he was really wanting to stay in Texas, then they'd already have a deal in place. He's going to test free agency, and historically that's not a good sign for Texas when it comes to pitching.

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I agree, and I think Yu is going to want a deal similar to that of Scherzer, Price, and Greinke, which I doubt the Rangers will do.

First, Otani has to be posted---far from guaranteed at this point. Second, he has to want to sign for what a team can offer---also far from guaranteed.

Third, lots of guys are friends and train together; many of them don't follow each other to the same club. At the end of the day, they'll probably each follow the money like pretty much everyone does.

Maybe it happens all perfect, but I wouldn't assume too much. That's all I'm saying.

Agreed. I'd say at best it's 50/50 that Otani and Darvish will play on the same team.

And even if they were dead-set on playing together -- I think a lot of Rangers fans want to take the view of Darvish saying "hey Otani, come to Texas and let's play alongside each other!"

When it's just as likely Darvish says "hey Otani, let's go to New York and play alongside each other!"


Texas has/had two big advantages with Darvish -- 1) It's the franchise he knows and 2) They had multiple years to negotiate a potential contract extension with him.

#2 no longer applies.

I know next to nothing about how international signings work, but I thought I had read that if Otani waits another full season, he could be due to make a significant amount more money. Is that true?

Just an outsider's view on Darvish...

If I'm Darvish I'm not signing with Texas unless they make BP improvements. I would want nothing to do with your current BP pitching behind me.

I'd tell them that I want to wait and see what happens in that regard.

Not sure of the dynamics of everything but it may even beneficial to go ahead and trade Darvish for BP help and straight up tell him 'We want you back but we want to improve this pen for you. Would it hurt or help to trade you now, get some help, and revisit things once you've seen what's being done? We're convinced you'll like what we did.'

(Age-Team at signing)
Scherzer (30-Wash): 7yrs/$210M. Career 3.30 ERA for 283 GS/10 years=28.3 GS/yr
Price (30-Bos): 7yrs/$217M. Career 3.24 ERA for 257 GS/10 years = 24.7 GS/yr
Greinke (32-Az): 6yrs/$206M. Career 3.39 ERA for 367 GS/14 years = 26 GS/yr

Darvish (?yrs/$?M) Age 30 (?) Career 3.32 ERA for 119 GS/5 years = 23.8 GS/yr

So, as much as we concern over injury risk for Darvish, you see he is in range for the 3 bigcat22 mentions. I agree that is likely what Darvish is looking at.

Where I disagree... I thought he wanted FA all along. I think he felt the posted structure hurt him, and he wanted FA because he didn't want to leave money on the table.

If the Rangers have indicated they would keep Darvish, even if eliminated, that sends a message that the Rangers are willing to spend for him. The Rangers have to know he is looking at $30M+ for a minimum of 6 years... likely 7. Greinke is 2 years older, so the age rist for him includes pitching to 37, as is the case with Scherzer, Price & Darvish.

It would not surprise me if his agent has had conversations with JD and Texas will be given a final matching opportunity. Most Japanese that I've met are very superstitious and traditional. They don't like "change" for the sake of change. I expect if Darvish can make the same in Arlington with a matching offer, he is likely to stay.

As for Otani\Ohtani... I've posted already about him and the Pool money. I truly believe there are only a couple teams in play. Texas and NYY are among them. Houston, et al, cannot sign players for more than $300K, due to penalty for previous year violations on Int'l players. Otani will likely go AL. I think Seattle may have a play. All 3 teams I believe have some Pool money left and will purchase more via trades. The actual signing will be more about a structured deal, beyond the Pool money. Even though the signing team will have like 6 years of team control (3Serf/3Arb), Otani is likely to negotiate at least a 6yr deal through his Arb. He has indicated he wants to be posted after the season in Japan, which ends in Oct.

jtstanley4621 said:

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I know next to nothing about how international signings work, but I thought I had read that if Otani waits another full season, he could be due to make a significant amount more money. Is that true?

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It has to do with his tenure. I believe players who are 25... or have 6 years of Pro experience are not restricted to the International Pool signings. I believe this was put into play for Cuban players who have played professionally and can't get out of Cuba until their mid 20s.

Ag_07 said:

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Just an outsider's view on Darvish...

If I'm Darvish I'm not signing with Texas unless they make BP improvements. I would want nothing to do with your current BP pitching behind me.

I'd tell them that I want to wait and see what happens in that regard.

Not sure of the dynamics of everything but it may even beneficial to go ahead and trade Darvish for BP help and straight up tell him 'We want you back but we want to improve this pen for you. Would it hurt or help to trade you now, get some help, and revisit things once you've seen what's being done? We're convinced you'll like what we did.'

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I've never heard of a SP who looked at a BP, to determine where they want to go. Could you direct me to a single player ever, who used BP as a key decision point?

Having said that... Texas has had one of the best BPs to finish the season, year-after-year since 2009. BPs are very volatile with tenure of about 2-3 years for a RP.

Who might you suggest is a better option for Darvish, if you know... BP is his priority?!

I didn't say I knew that was a determining factor. I said "If I was him" it would be a factor.

I don't know what any players use as their driving decisions. I don't know if any us know that about any player so no I can't point you to a single player who has used BP as a deciding factor. I would think any smart pitcher would look at that as a driving factor just as a hitter would look at who else in the lineup around him.

And if you think the Ranger BP is in a good spot then I don't know what to tell you. You're nave if you think Darvish hits FA and other teams aren't drilling home the fact that Texas had a historically bad BP situation in 2017.

I think that'd be a big selling point for a team say like the Yankees.

I know as a starter I sure would like to have Betances and Chapman behind me over any two arms the Rangers have in their BP.

I didn't come here to stir the pot, but rather offer my opinion as an outsider. Take it FWIW

Ag_07 said:

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I didn't say I knew that was a determining factor. I said "If I was him" it would be a factor.

I don't know what any players use as their driving decisions. I don't know if any us know that about any player so no I can't point you to a single player who has used BP as a deciding factor. I would think any smart pitcher would look at that as a driving factor just as a hitter would look at who else in the lineup around him.

And if you think the Ranger BP is in a good spot then I don't know what to tell you. You're nave if you think Darvish hits FA and other teams aren't drilling home the fact that Texas had a historically bad BP situation in 2017.

I think that'd be a big selling point for a team say like the Yankees.

I know as a starter I sure would like to have Betances and Chapman behind me over any two arms the Rangers have in their BP.

I didn't come here to stir the pot, but rather offer my opinion as an outsider. Take it FWIW

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That's exactly what your intent was. I've just never heard someone use the BP as a selling point. You think the Yankees are going, "Yeah, you know, we could pitch this city, the Japanese community, $30M and playing for "The Yankees," but what really draws a SP is the Bullpen. If we could just ensure Darvish knows we have Betances for the first 2 years of the 6-7 year contract, he will sign with us."

I guess I just didn't realize that guys with a 3.18 ERA (Betances-29) and 3.48 (Chapman-29) in a volatile role with a team would draw so much interest. Thanks.

Yes... the Rangers BP has had some issues this season. And they will continue to work out the issues.

Right now we have some young controllable assets:
Kela (24): 2.64, 0.88
Claudio (25): 2.76, 1.12
Leclerc (23): 3.42, 1.18
Bush (31): 3.55, 1.42
Grilli (40)

But, the BP is not something you lock in uniformly year-after-year. The BP was supposed to be an asset of strength going into the season and anyone that thinks they could use that against the Rangers in 2017 is just trolling.

The Rangers bullpen has been good until this year. It will be good again. And not by accident. They have always taken steps to try to put a good one together. They just had an unforeseen **** sandwich this year due to a variety of circumstances. Particularly Dyson, Jeffress, and Diekman. Those are 3 top guys with strong track records that they were counting on, two of which significantly underperformed this year and one which had a major surgery for colitis. Diekman will be back soon. And I expect they'll take steps to shore it back up this offseason. One has to be a moron to think that will factor in.

Quote:

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If the Rangers have indicated they would keep Darvish, even if eliminated, that sends a message that the Rangers are willing to spend for him. The Rangers have to know he is looking at $30M+ for a minimum of 6 years... likely 7. Greinke is 2 years older, so the age rist for him includes pitching to 37, as is the case with Scherzer, Price & Darvish.

It would not surprise me if his agent has had conversations with JD and Texas will be given a final matching opportunity. Most Japanese that I've met are very superstitious and traditional. They don't like "change" for the sake of change. I expect if Darvish can make the same in Arlington with a matching offer, he is likely to stay.

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Possibly -- though that likely doesn't matter as someone is going to offer more money than Texas.

JD was on The Ticket today and said of Darvish: they'd love to have him here after this season, and agree to handle everything in private.

On that note about privacy, I'm pretty sure the situations with Darviah and Otani are about as classic "no one here actually knows anything about any of it" as it gets.

TXAggie2011 said:

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On that note about privacy, I'm pretty sure the situations with Darviah and Otani are about as classic "no one here actually knows anything about any of it" as it gets.

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Negative.

I have it on authority that Darvish has indicated to his agent to build in opt-out mechanisms within the contract.

Standard contract stuff for SPs.

No Lucroy or Napoli in the lineup tonight

Darvish talking to Otani and getting him to play here isn't that far removed from the Michael Young and Vernon Wells connection of yore.

Yankees needs for SP just went up. I'd start shopping Darvish yesterday at this point.

Huell Babineaux said:

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No Lucroy or Napoli in the lineup tonight

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And D Rob starting in LF

Lucky #007 said:

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Yankees needs for SP just went up. I'd start shopping Darvish yesterday at this point.

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Apparently the Rangers WILL listen to offers for Darvish and Hamels, if the Rangers fade. That would be a complete rebuild. Yikes.

Based on what the CWS got for Quintana... getting the Top 2 prospects in an org, plus fillers, would be an incredible infuse of talent if we move Hamels. Doubt we'll get as much for Darvish, although, when your options are Sonny Gray and Derek Holland...

Having said that, I just don't see it. The Yankees #1 prospect went out to TJ in June.

No hitter alert.

THE RANGERS CURRENTLY HAVE ZERO HITS

Gallo just missed that

Bats still enjoying the ASB

Martin Perez frustrates me. And the streaky offense frustrates me

Making it easy to sell. Team is showing a lot of guts

Pow pow!