TXAggie2011 said:

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I think the idea of not re-signing Darvish---however it were happen---would not be to find an equal or better direct replacement, but to find a good pitcher and then use saved money to upgrade another starting spot or another position.

The base theory would be there are bigger holes on the roster than Darvish's absence would create.


Assuming he's not signing an extension in the next 26 days, its probably too early get into who exactly you'd target in free agency and what kind of drop you might expect between them and Darvish.


I'm not trying to act as a proponent of that, just noting the theory of it.

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Yeah, not arguing with you about it just trying to list out even what potentially would be out there.

But there's really not bigger holes on the roster than the loss of a front-end starter -- especially when your other front-end guy is a Cole Hamels whose peripherals are all pointing towards major decline. As much as DallasAg would love to tell us all "see, told ya so!", a rotation of 1) Hamels, 2) A guy a rung or two below Darvish, 3) Perez and any combination of Ross/Cashner/Griffin/Martinez behind him is not going to fare you any better than 0.500.

And going around the field looking for upgrades... 3B is set... SS is set... 2B is set (with that contract)... 1B has an opening, but seeing as we passed on the multi-year solution at first (EE), I assume Gallo is going to get another year of testing there.

Maybe a couple of spots in the outfield need shoring up and obviously bullpen help... But the offense is 3rd in the league right now and that's with Beltre just now coming back. And as I think we saw this year, bullpens are a crapshoot every single year... It was supposed to be our strength, instead it's been one of the worst in baseball.

This team needs work in a lot of areas, but it can't afford a hole or dropoff in production from one of it's rotation slots -- or else it really doesn't matter what else is fixed. Ultimately I agree there's room to fix a lot of other things -- but they need to be fixed in a addition to signing a legitimate #2, not instead of.

bigcat22 said:

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Huell Babineaux said:

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Beltre, Elvis, Mazara, Odor, Gallo are going nowhere. I could see everyone else getting moved.

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Agree, the only one of those I can see leaving is Beltre. He's 39 and only played in 1 World Series. If he asks to go to a contender, I doubt the front office would say no, he's too respected.

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Agreed -- but I also think that he also realizes that it's not like he's being traded to a WS team... You still gotta get there, and win.

Unless Texas decides on a full blown rebuild, I doubt Beltre would have any complaints.... and a full blown rebuild does't make sense.

Quote:

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1) Hamels, 2) A guy a rung or two below Darvish, 3) Perez and any combination of Ross/Cashner/Griffin/Martinez behind him is not going to fare you any better than 0.500.

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If you think the lineup is set, the idea would be then to improve spots 3-5 of the rotation with saved money.

You'll get a drop-off for 30 starts but you'll get improvement for 30 or 60,or more starts.

I think the best way to think of it is that you try to go from winning a game 4-1 and then losing a game 5-4...to winning 4-3 and 4-3.

Its slow and steady wins the race.

Ross and Cashner will be free agents. It'd be taking $30 million opportunity cost Yu, and that $17 million to get you three $16 million guys or $20, $20, and $7 million rather than $30, $10, and $7 million guys. (Numbers here not meant to be exact)

And I'll add that it is not lining up $30 million on a single guy who could be injured (and here specifically a guy who has had a knack for getting injured.)

Its not just slow and steady wins the race, its also strength in numbers.

Game tonight is GOT themed. To borrow (and slightly alter) a GOT quote:

When you play the game of bullpens, you lose or you die. There is no middle ground.

I understand the theory, and I think you could still get away with it if Cole Hamels was still a no-doubter front-end of the rotation pitcher.

But going to battle with a #2 and a bunch of #3/#4's and just hoping things work out? I think we've seen that a fair number of times over the course of this franchise and it hasn't worked out well.

TXAggie2011 said:

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There are good arguments for keeping Elvis Andrus but him breaking the career games played at shortstop is not one of them, in my opinion.

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I think you missed the point, as GP would more reflect whom he would compare with.

If Jeter is the standard bearer... by the end of Andrus' career, he will be a HoF and likely Top 5-10 in most categories, and like Beltre, could be at the Top 3 in many cases.

Andrus (28) 1303 G, 1366 H, 227 Doubles, 39 Triples, 261 SB
Jeter (by 28) 1093 G, 1390 H, 214 Doubles, 38 Triples, 167 SB

Andrus still has the rest of this season and will have more G, H, 2B, 3B and SBs than Jeter at the same age.

Some of the Top SSs of All-Time, that I can think of in no order (all stats are for all GP at all positions):
Derek Jeter: 2668 GP at SS of 2747 GP, 3184 H, 603 Doubles, 44 Triples, 36 SB
Omar Vizquel: 2649 GP of 2968, 1445 H, 456 Doubles, 77 Triples, 404 SB
Ozzie Smith: 2494 GP of 2573, 2460 H, 402 Doubles, 69 Triples, 580 SB
Cal Ripken: 2297 GP of 3001, 2326 H, 389 Doubles, 48 Triples, 321 SB
Dave Concepcion: 2122 GP of 2488
Honus Wagner <doesn't break up by position>: 2792 GP total.

Not saying Andrus is Jeter, but making the point that we have a chance to have Andrus for his entire career, and one that can be remembered among the greats.

AND...we don't really have a replacement for him.

We'll get a good look at his potential replacement tonight in Profar as Andrus in on paternity leave.

Not having a replacement is a better argument.

And its all the things those guys did on top of what Elvis is comparable to that make them all-time greats.

Some additional perspective on this current team:

The rotation is 8th in the AL with a 4.44 ERA
4th KC 4.23
5th Bos 4.23
6th Cle 4.41
7th LAA 4.41
8th Texas 4.44

You can't argue that our rotation can't get better if we keep Darvish. You sure can argue it can get lots worse.

Without Darvish's numbers we are at 4.74 ERA for the other 7 guys. 11th with Oakland.

Assume Hamels (4.12) and Perez (4.60) are locks for 2018. Perez is 23rd in AL ERA. Not terrible.

We are getting Cashner (3.87, 13 GS).

We are getting:
4.04 from ABD (5 GS) <- flash in the pan?
4.56 from Martinez (11GS)
5.77 from AJG (8 GS)
6.41 from Tyson Ross (4 GS)


I'm not sold on Martinez as the #5. AJG was broken when we got him and he appears to still be broken.

I'd love to be able to say Cashner will keep is sub-4.00 ERA.

Signing Darvish to $30M for 5 years is likely the best path forward. It is a spot you will forever look to piece into place.

I would rather have 3 legit SPs (Darvish, Hamels, Perez), add a 1 year player looking to recover (Ross\Cashner types like we do every year) and then piece a fill-in for the #5 (Martinez, AJG, ABD).

The alternative is to end up with Hamels (#2), Perez (#3), a bunch of #3-4s, and a couple #5s.

To get to the playoffs, you need quantity with some quality.
Come playoff time, you want Quality... not Quantity. Darvish, Hamels and then who on your playoff?

Huell Babineaux said:

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cevans_40 said:

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Seven Costanza said:

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Only a few more months until the outfield grass is back to normal, guys.

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That has to be the worst field maintenance job of all time. All they had to do was scalp all of the grass 3 weeks before the season started and everything would have been fine. I bet it will still be noticeable at seasons end.

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Are you the one that argued with me at the very beginning of the year when I said the field was pathetic and the head groundskeeper should be fired?

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I still can't believe someone actually tried to defend that guy. The outfield looks like crap run over twice and it has all season long. People pay their hard earned money to see a Major League Baseball team play on what looks like a high school quality field or worse. Whoever is in charge should be fired.

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I would rather have 3 legit SPs (Darvish, Hamels, Perez), add a 1 year player looking to recover (Ross\Cashner types like we do every year) and then piece a fill-in for the #5 (Martinez, AJG, ABD).

The alternative is to end up with Hamels (#2), Perez (#3), a bunch of #3-4s, and a couple #5s.

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Two observations here.

1) If Martin Perez is a #3, and "legit", then that isn't the alternative; there will be, looking at the names, #2s and "better than legit" guys that will be available in the FA market. (And I think you have to consider the following FA class, as well, when the club will potentially have significant cash to play with based on decisions to be made with/by Hamels and Beltre)

We will have a better feel for this as the year moves along. We will also have to see what extensions get worked out.


2) If you're at all frustrated and/or concerned with the current state of starting pitching---not saying you are, but I think others are---then moving forward business as usual is going to keep you frustrated and/or concerned.

I'm not saying watching Darvish walk is necessarily what I believe is the proper way to change the state of affairs and improve the rotation. And yes, they could keep Darvish and still improve the rotation.

grapespda2525 said:

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I still can't believe someone actually tried to defend that guy. The outfield looks like crap run over twice and it has all season long. People pay their hard earned money to see a Major League Baseball team play on what looks like a high school quality field or worse. Whoever is in charge should be fired.

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A HS field? Are you serious?

Our HS field was so terrible.

It puddled water on home plate all the way out to the pitcher's mound. So, our ingenious coach though it to be a great idea to get gravel and plow it under the infield to help with draining. So, he borrowed a backhoe and removed the top clay. He spread out the rocks (not sand or gravel) and then tried to cover the clay back on top.

Every practice we had to fill our glove up with rocks from our position. It was so terrible. Pure dirt in field. Our OF had fence posts. We had most of the fence, but it was wood and was about 6" off the ground. A ground ball could roll right under the fence. Gopher holds... coastal grass. I bet if we were willing to pick up the cow patties our coach would rent the field for grazing. He'd mow the grass once a week whether it needed it or not.

Every time the local VFD would come to hose down the field for us, we'd spend the next couple hours picking up the rocks.

Elvis is on paternity leave

I had an uncle who lived in a 6 person tent with his wife and 5 kids (true) for 3 months (true), which he was trying to build a house (true). It was during the 100 year flood in Wise county (Oct '81) (also true). It must have rained for 60 straight days (may or may not be true, but seemed like it). The rain gauges filled so quickly they measure the rain by the number of times they were emptied, instead of inches (not true).

We went and picked them up and moved them into our house (true). We went back the next day to pick up the few remaining things in the tent and that whole area was washed away (true).

It was scary to think if they got washed away zipped up in a tent. We tried to move them in with us for several weeks, because the rain wouldn't let up. I think the only reason they relented was because they got tired having to go to the bathroom in the rain.

#MostlyTrueStory

Call your shot... will the bullpen blow this game?

So how much longer does Maz get to stay in the 3 hole? He's been pretty terrible for a good while now. He's starting to remind me of Moreland with his streakiness.

Huell Babineaux said:

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Call your shot... will the bullpen blow this game?

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May not need them if Cash can keep this up

Pinch hitting Kozma for Gallo in the 5th inning in an 8 run ball game? Wtf?

30 of last 38. Real specific stat there.

Still hurts to see

Not surprised dyson is turning it around. Felt like a change of scenery would help him a lot. Sucks that it's with the effing giants though

That's what you get Banny. ********** I hate Kozma.

Have you ever seen a more worthless player than Pete Kozma?

Sweet lord, Kozma.... that has got to be freaking caught.

Huell Babineaux said:

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Have you ever seen a more worthless player than Pete Kozma?

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Said the same thing last night. Drew Stubbs comes to mind but at least he could play good defense.

Hahahahah Pete Kozma ****ing sucks lol what the actual **** was that??? DFA immediately after the game

gigem1223 said:

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Pinch hitting Kozma for Gallo in the 5th inning in an 8 run ball game? Wtf?

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All I can think of is maybe that hamstring is bothering him

100,000 percent Kozma's fault right there. DFA after this game. Not even joking.

And just like that...Kozma's suckiness leads to a home run

Gallo traded?

Gotta feel for Cashner. Fckin Kozma

Kozma is such garbage. Why are we giving this guy the time of day?

Now the wheels fall off