We have 2 AA quality pitchers making starts right now. I'm actually more worried about finding another starter.

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For having such a great farm system, we don't seem to have much major league ready pitching talent. Hopefully the past few games aren't indicators of what to expect until we get some help.

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Some we have:

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Darvish - Rangers signed as FA in 2012
Holland - Rangers drafted in 25th Rd in 2006
Perez - Signed as an amateur FA in 2007
Colby - Rangers drafted in 1st Rd (38th pick) in 1999

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We've traded much of it away.

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Just from the June Amateur draft:
2012: Alec Asher is with Philly (Hamels)
2011: Kyle Hendricks (26 now, 25 his 1st full season) is with the Cubbies: 15 GS \ 2.76 ERA \ 1.051 WHIP (Dempster)
2011: Jerad Eickoff (26 now in his 1st full season) is with Philly: 16 GS \ 3.38 ERA \ 1.240 WHIP (Hamels)
2008: Tanner Roark (29 now, 27 his 1st full season) is with Washington: 17 GS \ 2.93 ERA \ 1.230 WHIP (Cristian Guzman)
Jake Thompson was traded to Philly (Hamels) and there is mounting speculation he'll get the call.

I don't know how to collate International signings... but that right their... Roark, Eickoff & Hendricks is a pretty salty rotation.

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Some of it has been injured.

Some is still developing.

Some have ended baseball.

Trade deadline deals get lost over the years, but you've gotta give to get. If we trade Luis Ortiz and/or Dillon Tate to get someone like Sonny Gray, Pomeranz (whom the Rangers drafted, but didn't sign), Sale, or Taverez, we'll be looking up in 3 years wishing we had one of those guys.

Chi Chi is 24.
Nick Martinez is 25.
Martin Perez is 25.

So, by comparison, yes Chi Chi and Nick should still be in the minors... they have only been called up to help bridge the gap before Griffin returned, until Darvish and Holland get back, and/or we make a trade.

Today's game, Chi Chi got pulled because we had 2 Errors and a misplayed ball by Andrus and he had thrown 38 PC in 2/3 of an inning, in a game that was in the middle of the day.

I expect him to get sent to Round Rock and for the Rangers to call up Lohse. Not sure when Lohse is scheduled to pitch, but I think he need to take a shot, before he asks to be released (if he is healthy).

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We have 2 AA quality pitchers making starts right now. I'm actually more worried about finding another starter.

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They are probably AAA caliber pitchers, but age-wise comparable to most AA pitchers.

Nick Martinez hasn't looked terrible. I think he has a couple more starts we can get out of him. Other than the 5 Ws against NYY, he looked good.

He has improved each outing and I'm anxious to see if he can make the next step.

Chi Chi... I think you've given him a taste. The defense failed him. He might get another GS, but it wouldn't shock me if they sent him down.

We need another SP.

The average age of active MLB players is about 28.5 and the majority of them are younger than that.

At 24-25 years old these aren't just wide-eyed kids anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love the talent in Martinez and Perez, don't know if Chi Chi is going to make it, but it's getting to be about that time all 3 of them gotta start putting up or shutting up.

Yeah. I'm with ya. I mean I don't think he's shown just a whole lot more than Martinez has shown in the past, but yeah. Especially this year so far.

My point is more that age shouldn't really excuse them for much at this point, whatever for or whoever it may be. I mention Perez just because his name was up there.

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I would say Perez has been putting up for a good while now. Shouldn't even be in the same sentence as Martinez and Chi Chi.

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That's just how TXAggie2011 rolls.

At 25, Perez has 65 GS \ 296.0 IP \ 4.00 ERA \ 1.39 WHIP.

2013: 20 GS \ 3.62 ERA \ 1.34 WHIP
TJ Surgery
2016: 17 GS \ 3.39 ERA \ 1.37 WHIP

His ERA is good enough to get him 13th in the AL, but yeah... it is time for him to put up or shut up.

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The average age of active MLB players is about 28.5 and the majority of them are younger than that.

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And how many of them are SPs?

Let's look at the AL West SPs (as listed on roster):

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Houston: 31, 32, 29, 28, 22 (4.28 SP ERA, 12th in MLB)
Oakland: 36, 26, 25, 24, 23 (5.15 SP ERA, 28th in MLB)
LAAA: 33, 32, 29, 28, 28 (4.92 SP ERA, 24th in MLB)
Seattle: 35, 31, 29, 28, 27, 23 (4.20 SP ERA, 10th in MLB)
Texas: 32, 28, 25, 25, 24 (3.58 SP ERA, 5th in MLB)

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Of the 26 SPs listed, 5 are 24 (Chi Chi's age) or younger.
16 are 28 or older (61.5%)

So a MAJORITY of SPs in the AL West are NOT younger than 28.5.

Braves may have the youngest rotation - 31, 25, 24, 23, 23, 22. They are 16th in MLB ERA as a SP with 4.41.

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At 24-25 years old these aren't just wide-eyed kids anymore.

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So you think it is just about being skeered? Sorry. It is about Command. It is about Control. It is about having depth of pitches.

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Don't get me wrong, I love the talent in Martinez and Perez, don't know if Chi Chi is going to make it, but it's getting to be about that time all 3 of them gotta start putting up or shutting up.

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You make such stupid statements, which makes reading your posts very frustrating.

Here is a clue... in general... a rule of thumb I've heard is about 400-600 IP in the minors before a pitcher is ready.

I've stated Hendrick, Eickoff & Roark as examples of SPs that didn't make their debut until 25, 26 & 27, respectively. They seem to be doing great. Chi Chi is 24 11 GS \ 72 IP at the MLB level and you want to write him off.

Let's look at the A's minor league system, to compare. They always seem to be lauded as a great farm system with lots of pitching:

AAA Nashville
Chris Smith (35) - 16 GS \ 4.18 ERA \ 1.30 WHIP. \\ 67.2 IP in MLB
Dillon Overton (24) - 13 GS \ 3.01 ERA \ 1.28 WHIP.\\ 8.2 IP in MLB
Jesse Hahn (26) - 8 GS \ 3.60 ERA \ 1.66 WHIP.\ 204.2 IP in MLB \ 35 GS \ 3.78 WHIP1.19 WHIP
Angel Castro (33) - 8 GS \ 22 G \ 5.40 ERA \ 1.58 WHIP.\\ 4.0 IP in MLB
Zach Neal (27) - 8 GS \ 2.83 ERA \ 1.05 WHIP.\\ MLB2016 (his only MLB experience): 1 GS \ 8 G \ 15.2 IP \ 8.04 ERA \ 1.60 WHIP
Daniel Mengden (23) - 11 GS \ 1.19 ERA \ 0.95 WHIP.\\ MLB2016 (his only MLB experience) - 4 GS \ 2.81 ERA \ 1.17 WHIP
Mengden made his debut against the Rangers this year. Let's see how he does the rest of the season.

AA Midland
Seddon (23) - At AA, 1st season at AA, never higher.
Alcantara (23) - At AA, 2nd season at AA, never higher. Last year had 3 GS at AA
Jensen (25) - Promoted to AAA for the 1st time, this season. Has 3 GS.
Gossett (23) - At AA, 1st season at AA, never higher.
Covey (23) - At AA, 1st season at AA, never higher.
Walter (23) - At AA, 1st season at AA, never higher.
They have 5 SPs currently, all 23 and 4 of them are just getting their AA stripe.

A+ Stockton
Zack Erwin (22) - 15 GS \ 5.89 ERA \ 1.69 WHIP
Brett Graves (23) - 14 GS \ 16 G \ 5.49 ERA \ 1.57 WHIP
Heath Fillmyer (22) - 13 GS \ 15 G \ 3.20 ERA \ 1.35 WHIP
Casey Meisner (21) - 12 GS \ 16 G \ 4.72 ERA \ 1.73 WHIP
Daniel Gossett (23) - 9 GS \ 3.33 ERA \ 1.15 WHIP promoted to AA: 6 GS \ 3.38 ERA \ 1.09 WHIP

SPs are generally going to start being of value to a MLB rotation around 26 or 27. We still have a couple years for Chi Chi.

Perez is definitely a notch or two above Ramirez and 3 or 4 notches above Chi Chi. He's got dominant stuff. The only thing that's keeping him from being a TOTR guy, IMO, is that he seems to lack the juevos to challenge a hitter in a hitter's count. Hamels and Lewis do it all the time. They both have given up a fair share of solo dongs... But that's better than walking 5 or 6 a game, IMO.

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I'm not sure if the Astros are white hot, or if they've figured out something long-term, but if we don't get our pitching situation figured out and settled, the lead we've built is anything but safe. I have faith in JD though. On paper, probably the easiest thing to fix on a ball club is the bullpen.

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The Rangers have enough tools in Arlington and in the minor leagues to fend them off. A decent trade here or there and a spout of health and the Rangers look like they have World Series chances, knock on wood. I don't think the Rangers should be freaking out.

But I think this is a fair assessment; the Astros have lots of talent and are just hitting their stride. They'll be able to stick around if they stay healthy.

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Perez is definitely a notch or two above Ramirez and 3 or 4 notches above Chi Chi. He's got dominant stuff. The only thing that's keeping him from being a TOTR guy, IMO, is that he seems to lack the juevos to challenge a hitter in a hitter's count. Hamels and Lewis do it all the time. They both have given up a fair share of solo dongs... But that's better than walking 5 or 6 a game, IMO.

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Perez is shunning the school of thought that such low strikeout abilities make long term success unlikely. If he doesn't challenge hitters enough for your liking, it may come down to him not feeling like he has a true swing-and-a-miss kind of pitch. I doubt he thinks solo home runs are better than a few walks.

That said, the walks can definitely cause him to throw too many pitches and that's cut short some good outings this year.

Here's a fun stat for DallasAg. The only AL Cy Young winner since 32 year old Bartolo Colon won it in 2005 to be over the age of 28 was Cliff Lee (2008). Lee was 29.

Keuchel at 27
Kluber at 28
Scherzer at 28
Price at 26
Verlander at 28
Hernandez at 24
Grienke at 25.
Sabathia at 26.
Santana at 27. Santana had won it at age 25 in 2004.

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16 are 28 or older (61.5%)

So a MAJORITY of SPs in the AL West are NOT younger than 28.5.

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Tell me more about this number line you're using...

And I don't think anyone's saying Chi Chi's career is over. But there's certainly reason to wonder about his future with the Rangers.

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You make such stupid statements, which makes reading your posts very frustrating.

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Incredible...and flagged.

From Ken Rosenthal

The Rangers had discussions with the Padres about right-handed reliever Fernando Rodney before San Diego traded him to Miami, but Rosenthal opines that Texas needs a left-handed bullpen option more. In addition to their interest in relievers, the Rangers are also in the market for a young, high-end starter and would be willing to part with just about anyone on their roster if the right deal came along.

So at this point it's pretty much inevitable that Gallo gets traded somewhere. What does that mean for next years 1B situation? Do we bring Moreland back?

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Perez is definitely a notch or two above Ramirez and 3 or 4 notches above Chi Chi. He's got dominant stuff. The only thing that's keeping him from being a TOTR guy, IMO, is that he seems to lack the juevos to challenge a hitter in a hitter's count. Hamels and Lewis do it all the time. They both have given up a fair share of solo dongs... But that's better than walking 5 or 6 a game, IMO.

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Perez has often been compared to Johan Santana. He has that good of stuff. Johan was 25 before he had a full season as a SP in MLB.

The problem you describe is the same problem most pitchers have and you hear it all the time, when a Pitching Coach or manager says the pitcher needs to trust his stuff. Trust his defense.

I believe he'll get there. He was on his way, until he had to have TJ. Now, even Perez has said his biggest hurdle now is fearing re-injury of his elbow.

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The average age of active MLB players is about 28.5 and the majority of them are younger than that.

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And how many of them are SPs?

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You make such stupid statements, which makes reading your posts very frustrating.

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Its a message board. Calm down. But if you think you're god's great gift to the baseball world, here's a ****ing "hint", you jackwagon.


55% of starting pitchers who have made at least 10 starts this season are 28 or younger. 75 of 137.

68% of all pitchers who have made a start this season are 28 or younger. 166 of 237.


26% of all pitchers who have made at least 10 starts this season are 25 or younger.

11 of the 137 with 10+ starts are 23 or younger. 8 of the 137 are 24. 16 of the 137 are 25.

Its not even that difficult to find this information.

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You make such stupid statements, which makes reading your posts very frustrating.

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Good. You're off the age thing. You may have finally gotten a "hint."

p.s. Here's some more numbers from Oakland. Their current starting pitching staff:

Sonny Gray: Age 26, 292.1 minor league innings.
Kendall Graveman: Aged 25, 231.1 minor league innings.
Sean Manaea: Aged 24, 217.2 minor league innings.
Daniel Mengden: Aged 23, 210.0 minor league innings.

Mengden's an Aggie, I hope y'all remember him.


But excuse me if I don't shed a tear for Chi Chi and his 24 year old self with 349.1 minor league innings.

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You are funny, let's tell the whole truth...

Sonny Gray: Age 26, 292.1 minor league innings. < 15 GS \ 5.42 ERA \ 1.45 WHIP >
Kendall Graveman: Aged 25, 231.1 minor league innings. <15 GS \ 4.84 ERA \ 1.54 WHIP >
Sean Manaea: Aged 24, 217.2 minor league innings. <10 GS \ 5.40 ERA \ 1.11 WHIP >
Daniel Mengden: Aged 23, 210.0 minor league innings. <4 GS \ 2.81 ERA \ 1.17 WHIP>

And don't forget:
Rich Hill (36): 12 GS \ 2.31 ERA \ 1.11 WHIP
Surkamp (28): 9 GS \ 6.98 ERA \ 1.97 WHIP
Hahn (26): 7 GS \ 6.49 ERA \ 1.76 WHIP
Overton (24): 2 GS \ 11.42 ERA \ 2.31 WHIP

10 GS when players have 17/18 GS, is a rather low bar, and many of those pitchers are ONLY up because of injury. Others were up and have been sent down.

And the reason Oakland has such youth is:
Doubront (28) - DL60
Parker (27) - DL60
Bassitt (27) - DL60
Alvarez (26) - DL60

Oakland has a VERY hitter <pitcher> friendly park and the structure of their organization requires them to be young. And because they suck so much, that also affords them to be in a situation where they aren't very competitive. You seem fine with Graveman and Manaea being young, but then, compare that to Nick Martinez.

He is 25 and has an ERA of 5.00. Better than 2 of the 3, and comparable to the 4th.

Yes, I recall Mengden. Glad he is having success, but 4 GS is a small sample size. If Oakland thought he was ready, they would have had him already up.


<edited, the word "hitter" was used and I meant "pitcher.>

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The frequent downtalking from DallasAg on this board is tiresome. He doesn't know half of what he thinks he does, yet he's god's gift to this forum. It's laughable.

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Meh... usually geared towards the same person. It used to be Ag4Life who walked the ledge after every opposing HR, or Loss.

Saying it is time for a 24 year old pitcher to put up or shut up, when he is only up because we've lost Holland, Colby & Darvish, just seems pre-mature. My point was and is supported by fact that very few pitchers establish a full season in MLB before the age of 25.

Feel free to point out the last time I talked down to you.

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Oakland has a VERY hitter friendly park

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Ranked 28th in runs this season. 27 spots behind Coors Field.

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Oakland has a VERY hitter friendly park

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Ranked 28th in runs this season. 27 spots behind Coors Field.

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Typo... that was supposed to be Pitcher friendly. Which was to make the point that the inflated ERAs of their SP were that much worse.

My bad.

Except just about any pitcher anyone here has heard of that's not a Ranger probably did.

Sonny Gray at Oakland was an All-Star at age 25 and just about as good at age 24. Those other guys will either start to produce or they'll get passed up.

AJ Griffin when he was in Oakland was established at age 24/25.

Cole Hamels was an All-Star at age 23. Yu Darvish an All-Star at age 25. Derek Holland established himself by age 25. And now Martin Perez is doing it.

If we see Baltimore in the playoffs, their 1-2 will be a 25 year old and a guy that was an All-Star at 25.

Cleveland...their ace is leading the league in ERA at age 25. Their #2 is 25, and their #3, FWIW, won a Cy Young at 28.

I didn't say bury Chi Chi yet, I'm just not hopeful.

If you want to keep churning through anecdotal evidence, well, let's just save everyone some grief and stop this silliness.

No Profar again. I am really confused as to why Bannister isn't working him in.

Moreland scratched and Profar in.

I've been saying the same thing. Especially with Odor going through a little slump, it doesn't make sense why he won't play him

Moreland scratched for Profar

Choo choo mother****er

CHOO CHOO MFer!!!!

I like Minn's CF camera angle. That first call to Beltre was crappo

Let them off the hook only getting 1 there.

Can Profar play almost every day? Please.