71.6 percent, 15 votes off.

Bagwell was 71.6. Missed it by 15 votes. Raines 69.8.

Bags missed by 15 votes

also interesting...Griffey is the 1st #1 overall pick to go to the hall of fame.

BS Bags not getting in.

**** em all. Most of the voters got swirlies in high school from jocks.

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also interesting...Griffey is the 1st #1 overall pick to go to the hall of fame.

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Wow

and weirdly enough, Piazza is the lowest drafted player in the HOF as a 62nd round pick.

Total sham. The voters can take Pizza and shove him you know where.

Bags was a superior offensive player, defensive 1st baseman, and base runner.

Piazza was a 2 tool guy - avg and power.

If Piazza is in, Bags should be in.

And there should be as much suspicions with PEDs about Piazza as Bags

Bags is gonna be the new Jim Rice at this rate.

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And there should be as much suspicions with PEDs about Piazza as Bags

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Piazza has admitted to using PEDS - no suspicion there at all.

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Bags is gonna be the new Jim Rice at this rate.

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he gets in next year

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And there should be as much suspicions with PEDs about Piazza as Bags

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Piazza has admitted to using PEDS - no suspicion there at all.

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I don't remember that but that's even worse then

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And there should be as much suspicions with PEDs about Piazza as Bags

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Piazza has admitted to using PEDS - no suspicion there at all.

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I don't remember that but that's even worse then

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http://www.metstoday.com/10592/14-15-offseason/mike-piazza-admitted-taking-peds/

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Aside from the voters who will not vote for him because of PED suspicions, I think Bagwell gets hurt because he is a first baseman and does not have 500 homeruns. The lazy voters who do not bother digging into the statistics exclude him from the ballot simply because he does not have 500 homeruns.

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What I don't get is that Bagwell and Frank Thomas were essentially the same player between 1991 to 2004 until Bagwell's shoulder fell apart.

These are the stats for Bagwell and Thomas during that period:

Bagwell: 2,111 G/7,697 AB/1,506 R/2,289 H/446 HR/1,510 RBI/1,383 BB
Thomas: 1,865 G/6,660 AB/1,269 R/2,050 H/429 HR/1,408 RBI/1,406 BB

Granted Thomas only played in 20 games in 2001 and 74 in 2004, but if we remove those stats for both players for those two years you get:

Bagwell: 1,794 G/6,525 AB/1,276 R/1,964 H/380 HR/1,291 RBI/1,181 BB
Thomas: 1,771 G/6,352 AB/1,208 R/1,970 H/407 HR/1,349 RBI/1,332 BB

Add in that Bagwell played a decent first base and stole 202 bases compared to Thomas' 32 during that stretch, and they should be pretty equal.

Bagwell had a WAR of 79.3 from 1991-2004, Thomas had a WAR of 65.4 for the same period. The only thing that Thomas did different than Bagwell was have a resurgence with Oakland and Toronto at the age of 38/39 when he hit 39 and 26 HRs and batted .270 and .277. Those two seasons essentially got him in on the first ballot.

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Many of those years were in the Astrodome, which was known to be a pitchers park.

I just skimmed the article, but it appears he only admitted to taking Andro. I do not think that most people classify Andro in the same category as steroids and HGH, given that it was legal and available over the counter. McGwire being linked to Andro did not ultimately do him in. It was his appearance in front of Congress and then his ultimate admission to steroid use.

A friend is arguing pre roids bonds is superior to griffey overall. Thoughts?

Your friend probably prefers 2015 Roseanne Barr over 1990 Pamela Anderson.

Lmao. Any rebuttals I can send him

Piazza is in because he played in LA and NY. Bags is out because he played in "fly-over" country his whole career.
Sux.

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A friend is arguing pre roids bonds is superior to griffey overall. Thoughts?

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Not that crazy of a thought. He was a 3x MVP by by 28.

From 90-93 he averaged 38 HR, 123 RBIs, & an OPS of 1.028 per 162 games.

Unless we think he was already on the juice then.

Bonds went on the juice right after the Mcguire Sosa year.

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A friend is arguing pre roids bonds is superior to griffey overall. Thoughts?

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I don't think that's all that crazy either

I didn't say it was crazy. I haven't even replied. He initiated the conversation

If we say Bonds didn't do roofs until 99 then I would say his career before that is enough to make the HOF.

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If we say Bonds didn't do roofs until 99 then I would say his career before that is enough to make the HOF.

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Agree completely. I've argued that for a while. He definitely had a HOF career prior. Without roids he'd have probably had an injury filled final 8 years like most natural older guys and finished around 600 hr

Bonds, and I'm not sure it's all that close. Bonds won 3 MVPs in 4 seasons, the season he didn't win, he finished 2nd by a very close margin. He did this while stealing around 35 bases, hitting 30+ homeruns, and hitting over 300. His team was also playing for pennants during this time.

I love Griffey, probably my favorite player growing up, but Bonds in his prime 25-30 (before roids) was absolutely the better player. Only thing Griffey has over Bonds is his glove, which is not enough IMHO.

500+ steals for Bonds too

I just don't see him get to 600 without help. He hit 272 HR just from 2000 on. That's his age 35 season. He was at 490 at that point. 1999 he only played 102 games and arguable would have been in his natural decline. And suddenly had his 4 best seasons by far. I suspect he was already juicing by then.

Also, as far as #1 overalls go. Chipper Jones will get in, but all that's left (for now) is AROD. David Price and Bryce Harper look like they could possibly get to cooperstown, but they have a LONG ways to go.

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and weirdly enough, Piazza is the lowest drafted player in the HOF as a 62nd round pick.

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If I'm not mistaken, the only reason the Dodgers drafted Piazza was that Lasorda was a friend of the family and drafted him as a courtesy to the family.

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Also, as far as #1 overalls go. Chipper Jones will get in, but all that's left (for now) is AROD. David Price and Bryce Harper look like they could possibly get to cooperstown, but they have a LONG ways to go.

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Yeah, if Hamilton didn't have his addiction issues he surely had the talent and for a few years the stud numbers needed.

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Also, as far as #1 overalls go. Chipper Jones will get in, but all that's left (for now) is AROD. David Price and Bryce Harper look like they could possibly get to cooperstown, but they have a LONG ways to go.

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Yeah, if Hamilton didn't have his addiction issues he surely had the talent and for a few years the stud numbers needed.

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He was 27 before he had his first big year. He may not have had the longevity and milestone numbers to make it.