The worse team in baseball between 2012 and 2014 made it to the playoffs in Hinch's first year...yea he's a terrible manager.

Let's beetch all season long about how Hinch was pulling guys too early and using too many guys out of the pen. Let's also beetch all season long about not going with the hot hand out of the pen.

OK now we've lost so let's beetch about Hinch leaving guys in too long and not yanking guys. Oh yeah...Now let's also beetch about him bringing in guys who've faired well recently.

It really is amazing how you guys rail the guy for any decision he makes.

Wake up and turn your hatred to the GM who didn't land a power arm out of the pen and the scrubs who couldn't get a effin out in a big spot. That BP was atrocious and Hinch couldn't do anythinging to change that.

Hinch is a fine man, but he's a lousy manager who refused to learn from his mistakes. And the same mistakes cost us over and over again, especially at the most crucial time.

I don't hate the man. But I don't think he the guy to get us a World Series.

A lot of people aren't high on Spav because they see a trend of making the same mistakes and having the same problems in every loss. It's not much different here. I suspect we can go out and get Hinch more talent and a better bullpen, but the guy will still lose games in extremely boneheaded ways. Some of us warned all year that the in game decisions Hinch was making would bite us when it counts, and it did. Most of you were so happy with just getting to the playoffs that it didn't matter to you. I suspect you will change your tune if we play an entire season like we did from May-Sep and end up middle of the pack missing the playoffs. We were a product of one extremely hot month and a division that collapsed around us, minus Texas.

Of course, if Hinch corrects his trends of poor decision making I will gladly admit I was wrong.

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Let's beetch all season long about how Hinch was pulling guys too early and using too many guys out of the pen. Let's also beetch all season long about not going with the hot hand out of the pen.

OK now we've lost so let's beetch about Hinch leaving guys in too long and not yanking guys. Oh yeah...Now let's also beetch about him bringing in guys who've faired well recently.

It really is amazing how you guys rail the guy for any decision he makes.

Wake up and turn your hatred to the GM who didn't land a power arm out of the pen and the scrubs who couldn't get a effin out in a big spot. That BP was atrocious and Hinch couldn't do anythinging to change that.

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It wasn't as much about leaving in or taking out. It was more about relying on the same guys over and over, despite trends or current performance, based on nothing but lefty righty.

Hinch was always keeping his chart. Every ball, strike, out, defensive shift, and situation was on that thing. All he has to do is look at the current situation and his chart tells him exactly what to do. No awareness, no gut, just press determined.. dont even think.. charted out decisions.

It's hard to get on the guy about the same thing over and over when he's only got what 5 guys to work with? It's the same guys so yeah if they suck it's going to be the same mistake over and over.

I just don't think the BP was good enough. No matter who he trotted out there when, it was gonna be a sheet show. That was evident in the playoffs when he kind of changed it up leaving guys in and not being so dependent on matchups. He changed his approach a bit and it still didn't work.

The BP was a concern last off-season, during this season, and now this off-season. Everyone including Lunhow knew we needed more out there in the pen. Hard to blame Hinch when it comes to the BP.

Honesty I think the hate for Hinch is akin to the Rangers fans and our disdain for Ron Washington at times.

Gets the team in a good position, but doesn't make great decisions on game day.

Edit: not trying to hide, I'm a Rangers fan.

Back to the beer thread!

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Back to the beer thread!

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Every manager gets hated on for their decisions unless they reach Joe Torre/Bruce Bochy levels of success. Larry Dierker got absolutely massacred by Astros fans near the end of his managerial career for his decision making and this was someone who got the job essentially because he could explain how and why he would do certain things on radio/tv and it sounded good. And he had success too.

Every manager is a guy who has very little control over the way guys play after he makes a decision so eventually you will see them make some blunders and some people flip the hate switch sooner than others but it always happens unless your greatness cant be refuted. In game managing is almost akin to blackjack, where the house edge goes to whichever manager has more talent, but the perfect decision making doesn't always win, and many times you can think that you would have won if you hadn't hit holding 16, but that doesn't mean the decision was wrong. However many people begin marking down these type things and remembering them all even though they may be just luck (look at mazag, he's already got "10+" losses he's blaming Hinch for).

JJ, I agree with you. I'll let up on the guy and hope for the best next year.

If you were to back though over the season thread, you would see that I was aHinch fan at the start and it slowly faded through June and into July. It was the same mistake over and over again. Maybe I should be mad at Luhnow, because it's clear logic and gut feelings were never involved with in game decisions. I truly believe Hinch relied completely on his chart he kept.

It's funny too, because my father hated Hinch from the start and I was the one arguing for Hinch. At some point though, you have to realize certain things don't work.

I truly believe Bo Porter could have had a similar season as Hinch. They managed the exact same way, the players had fun, and both seemed to be players coaches. Hinch had the benefit of better talent and a stronger bullpen (most of the season), and unearthly hot April's from Marisnick and the entire starting staff.

Maybe it is Luhnow. Porter in the end rubbed Luhnow wrong and was canned. Hinch seems to be a mindless yes man.

The days of pure "gut" decisions in baseball are nearly extinct. Even old school managers are privy to statistics that influence their decisions. However, regardless of how a manager arrives at his decision, it's still on the players to perform.

Look at the KC bullpen. How hard is it to manage those guys? You could draw names out of a hat and be successful because more often than not, the players come through. Hinch had to be much more matchup-conscious based on our guys' splits. What we need is a couple of power arms that we can put into the game based on situation, irrespective of the batter. We haven't had that in a decade.

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What we need is a couple of power arms that we can put into the game based on situation, irrespective of the batter. We haven't had that in a decade.

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Especially in the playoffs. A soft tosser who has to hit perfect spots and miss bats is under much more mental pressure (IMO) to execute than a bullpen where you have Lidge, Dotel, Wagner coming in. Those guys had to have an edge in big games simply because they know they could throw their best pitch in the zone and the hitter still probably wont hit it. Will Harris throws a couple balls in a tight spot in the playoffs and he's probably thinking that his next pitch has got to be perfect whereas it probably isn't as much pressure to make his pitch in a game in April-July or whatever.

There were also a lot of rumors and hearsay that the players did not really like playing for Porter so not sure Porter would have had the same success. By all accounts, Hinch is a very straight up guy and excellent communicator, and over a 162 game season, one of a baseball manager's most important roles is managing the clubhouse.

Wagner was my boy. Don't know if it's true but everytime I hear his name I think of a story I heard about him.

Growing up he would throw a ball against a barn to warm up. Then he would long toss to himself to build arm strength and endurance. He'd throw it as far as he could, run and get it, then throw it back.

I remember Milo explaining how he would do that, but then he broke his right arm, so he did that to learn how to throw left handed. Worked out pretty well for him.

I dunno... The fact that he was a righty, broke his arm and taught himself to throw lefty is a better story.

Add in a team like KC that doesn't swing and miss much and it compounded our problems. They fouled off a lot of good pitches and put a lot of soft contact in play that went for hits. When guys fight off your best stuff, you start to nibble or try to get them to chase. That's when the walks come.

It would just be nice to have one or two guys who can come in and overpower a hitter in the zone when you need to strand runners. That tops my 2016 wish list.

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Remember how nice it was with Lidge, Dotel, Wagner?

Getting past the 6th inning with a lead meant a win with that trio.

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That was automatic.

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Remember how nice it was with Lidge, Dotel, Wagner?

Getting past the 6th inning with a lead meant a win with that trio.

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That was automatic.

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Didn't we have Wagner, Dotel, Doc Gordon and Mike Williams at one point?

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Remember how nice it was with Lidge, Dotel, Wagner?

Getting past the 6th inning with a lead meant a win with that trio.

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That was automatic.

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Didn't we have Wagner, Dotel, Doc Gordon and Mike Williams at one point?

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Yes

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I dunno... The fact that he was a righty, broke his arm and taught himself to throw lefty is a better story.

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better story, this, or the one with Oswalt curing his shoulder troubles by being shocked working on his truck?

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I dunno... The fact that he was a righty, broke his arm and taught himself to throw lefty is a better story.

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better story, this, or the one with Oswalt curing his shoulder troubles by being shocked working on his truck?

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you don't do that?

never needed to

Great season! Proud of those men!

Scott Servais will be new Mariners manager.

Former Astros catchers sure are representing well as manager's in the bigs.

Servais
Ausmus
Bochy
Cash...Yes that Kevin Cash who played 20 games with the good guys in 2010

Always like Servais

I hope they fuggin take him

Please LA, do it!!!!!!

Please please please!!!!!

Who could we possibly hire to replace him?

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Who could we possibly hire to replace him?

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I'll do it. I'm cheap, too. I'll take $850,000 and won't complain once

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Who could we possibly hire to replace him?

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Is this where I'm supposed to be a Homer and say "BGO!"?

What about Ensberg? Isn't he an actual coach in the minors already?