51-111
55-107
56-106

Great comeback. So hoodrat

Is this better?

I'm not bitter about that world series. We lost oh well, I don't hate the white sox either. Can't say the same for the majority of Rangers fans towards St Louis

I'm not bitter about either WS loss. Disappointed? Sure. Hate SFG or STL? Why would I?

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Hate St Louis ? Why would I?

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Vast majority of your comrades on here do

Vocal minority IMO

Man, I really got my hopes up for Biggio this year. I wish I wouldn't have read all the articles that said he would get in.

C'mon baseball, give Astros fans a break!

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Craig Biggio received MVP votes 5 times. In all 5 cases no 2nd baseman was higher up in the balloting.

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Not true. In 1999, Edgardo Alfonzo, who played 2nd base full time that season, finished 8th in NL balloting while Biggio was 12th.

If you count the other league, Alomar was 3rd in 1999.

1994 must have been a bad year for NL 2nd baseman is 16th place in voting with 17 votes put you as the top vote getter.

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Craig Biggio was an all-star second baseman 6 times.

....

Biggio received 4 gold gloves as the best fielding second baseman. He received 4 silver sluggers as the best hitting second baseman.

Craig Biggio was also an all-star CATCHER. He received the silver slugger as the best hitting CATCHER once as well in another season.

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Anyways, I imagine you can say something pretty similar, including the MVP talk, about Roberto Alomar and Jeff Kent. Maybe not the catcher thing, that's kind of cool.

Back it up a year or two and Ryne Sandberg says "hey".

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 1/8/2014 4:30p).]

In 1994 Biggio was 16th in the NL. Leading vote getter at 2nd base in the AL was Chuck Knoblauch at 20th.

In 1995 Biggio was 10th in the NL. Leading vote getter at 2nd base in the AL was Chuck Knoblauch at 17th.

In 1996 Chuck Knoblauch was 16th and Roberto Alomar was 20th. No NL 2nd basemen received a vote.

In 1997 Biggio was 4th. Roberto Alomar was 22nd in the AL. Jeff Kent was 8th in the NL.

In 1998 Biggio was 5th. Jeff Kent finished 9th in the NL. No 2nd baseman received votes in the AL.

In 1999 Craig Biggio was 12th, Jay Bell was 13th and Jeff Kent was 26th. Roberto Alomar was 3rd in the AL. [Edit: as seen below Edgardo Alfonso was 8th in the NL]



[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 1/8/2014 4:29p).]

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Anyways, I imagine you can say something pretty similar, including the MVP talk, about Roberto Alomar and Jeff Kent. Maybe not the catcher thing, that's kind of cool.

Back it up a year or two and Ryne Sandberg says "hey".

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So your point is that Craig Biggio is as good as other HOF 2nd basemen?

[This message has been edited by Red Five (edited 1/8/2014 4:23p).]

Basically for a long stretch right in the middle of Roberto Alomar's career Craig Biggio was the best second baseman in baseball after moving to 2nd base from catcher. Prior and after Roberto Alomar was the best before being overtaken by Jeff Kent.

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So your point is that Craig Biggio is as good as other HOF 2nd basemen?

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He's a Hall of Famer no doubt. He'll be in next year and I won't qualm about it one iota. The cries that he's been ****ed because he's the best there was during his time or since World War II or whatever...I'm saying I'm not sure I agree.

I missed that Edgardo Alfonso was playing 2B in 1999 and finished a couple spots ahead of Biggio.

JJ, you missed at least one second baseman. See the edit above.

How many people get MVP votes in an average year? How many people vote for the MVP? Seems like you might pick up a few hometown votes if you are a solid player every year.

Roberto Alomar was not 3rd in 1997 MVP voting. I show 22nd.

Sorry, I meant 1999. Compared the wrong year.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 1/8/2014 4:30p).]

2 writers per city with a team get a vote.

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How many people get MVP votes in an average year? How many people vote for the MVP? Seems like you might pick up a few hometown votes if you are a solid player every year.

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30 someodd players typically get votes each year.

Also writers in NL cities don't vote for AL MVP and vice versa. So you've got 28-32 people voting 2 of which are your hometown writers.

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Basically for a long stretch right in the middle of Roberto Alomar's career Craig Biggio was the best second baseman in baseball after moving to 2nd base from catcher. Prior and after Roberto Alomar was the best before being overtaken by Jeff Kent.

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3 or 4 years, split in the middle in 1996 by Alomar outplaying Biggio equals long stretch of being the best 2nd baseman in the game?

Biggio was a great player. Still, Alomar was better before Biggio's run, he was better after Biggio's run, and as I said above, split Biggio's run in the middle.

Ultimately, I can't possibly agree with the notion that any guy who has a claim to 3 or 4 years of "best" at a certain position has been screwed by not getting in after 1 or 2 ballots under the current voting system/trend.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 1/8/2014 4:40p).]

Alomar and Biggio should have been 1st ballot hall of famers.

And where would you put Jeff Kent? He's going to be a 10th ballot guy if he ever makes it in.

Remember that the bottom reference is that guys like Lou Whitaker and Bobby Gritch didn't get enough votes to get on a 2nd ballot. The top reference is a guy like Joe Morgan who wasn't the best 2nd baseman for a few years, but possibly the best player in baseball, and he was a 82% first time vote getter.

Did they get Ryne Sandberg wrong when they put him on the 3rd vote by 1.3% of the vote?

What I'm getting at is Biggio hasn't been treated unlike just about any other cat that's been voted on.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 1/8/2014 4:56p).]

I am a huge craig biggio fan and always will be. But to say he is a 3rd ballot hall of famer is not unreasonable at all and he will absolutely pick up the 2 votes he was lacking in next years ballot

Well, he actually has been treated differently than every other 3000 hit player, all of whom got in on the 1st ballot except Palmiero who would have if he was not being punished for his PED antics. Writers suddenly didn't want to vote for Craig Biggio so they found excuses not to despite what they've done in the past.

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Well, he actually has been treated differently than every other 3000 hit player, all of whom got in on the 1st ballot except Palmiero who would have if he was not being punished for his PED antics. Writers suddenly didn't want to vote for Craig Biggio so they found excuses not to despite what they've done in the past.

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EXACTLY

Paul Waner got in on the 5th vote, Nap LaJoie on the 2nd, and Eddie Collins on his 4th.

Biggio's all-around resume, as good as it is, is possibly the worst of the 3000 hit players.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 1/8/2014 5:17p).]

Go back to the SB where you belong 2011, you puff!

Hey 752bro4,

I'd rather get swept in a WS than choke, twice.





Stros before hos!

Nap LaJoie and Eddie Collins would be 1st ballot except for the circumstances of the first few votes. Literally every player was eligible. The Hall of Fame idiotically thought that 10 guys would be elected in the very first year, but of course, with every player ever eligible, only 5 got 75% of the votes because the writers were limited to 10 slots just like today. Nap LaJoie finished 6th ahead of Cy Young. Cy Young didn't even make it. I didn't realize it took so long for Waner to be inducted.

Tris Speaker also didn't get in under the same circumstances and Cap Anson being a pre-1900 player was not eligible via the writers vote.

I'd rather have a team that is in the post season hunt year after year and making back to back World Series than be stuck in the cellar like Houston currently is. But hey, that's just me and every other fan, besides you.

Houston isn't far away from competing. Believe what you want. We were put in a cellar by poor ownership. You of all people should be able to relate