and by the way, CJ choked.

Not worth what they're paying for him.

Excited about this one.

The Japanese league doesn't even use the same size baseball, if I'm not mistaken.

That's true, Dr. Cub.

I'm not doubting JD and Ryan, just curious to hear what they have to say.

There's got to be some strong stuff if you're willing to go into that market, that seriously, and let an All-Star, who has thrown several hundred less innings in minor and major league ball than Darvish, go to a team in your own division.

Just from the way it played out I think Texas decided Wilson wasn't really interested in coming back.

Based on what they offered Wilson and what they just paid to *negotiate* with Darvish, Yu was Plan A.

But Texas never really made CJ any kind of legit offer, right?

I think it's more like they didn't try to get him back at what it would cost.

Which again, is pretty telling. They knew him better than anyone.

Well its Texas, we never heard any kind of offer because they keep quiet about it.

But down the stretch it seemed like LAAA and Miami were the only two teams he was really considering.

I think Texas felt like CJ had no real desire to return to Texas and never really made re-signing him a priority.

CJs interview on MLB from the Anatole spelled it out pretty clearly...Rangers never seriously offered.

And pretty much ever guy covering the winter meetings confirmed that.

And I think it's now obvious the reason why - Darvish was Plan A.

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But Texas never really made CJ any kind of legit offer, right?

I think it's more like they didn't try to get him back at what it would cost.

Which again, is pretty telling. They knew him better than anyone.

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Yeah, the first part is pretty spot on. I don't think its debatable at this point that the Rangers did bid, and it wasn't competitive. mhayden, if you have the time to make a bid for 3 years at 10 million, or whatever it might have been, you have the time to make a bid for 5 years and 15 million. If they seriously wanted CJ, they would have offered accordingly...they wouldn't have voluntarily taken themselves out. They didn't need to make a choice, either. The CJ saga took place well before bids were due for Darvish.

Anywhow, back to Corleone. It might be pretty telling, I'm not doubting them, but I'm very interested in hearing from them why they made a "telling decision."

Well, I sure hope JD goes into it if they sign him.

He was scouted so heavily, my first guess is his talent seemed like a better investment of the money to them. More to it, I'm sure.

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. They didn't need to make a choice, either.

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They absolutely did.

You sign CJ Wilson at "market rate" and you don't sign Yu Darvish. Not only was Texas not going to spend that much money for 2 top of the rotation arms, they didn't even have rotation space to put them (you'd be shoving out the young arms that have a legitimate shot to be great).

The offer/interest they put into CJ and what they just bid for Darvish tells me that they decided when the 2011 season concluded that between CJ Wilson and Yu Darvish, they wanted Yu and planned accordingly.

More questions... more questions...

So... was the rumor that the Rangers didn't have as much to spend as people think, just an attempt to bluff?

Is Feliz assuredly moving to the Rotation, or was that just a "We have plenty of pitching, and not really going after CJ or Yu?!"

A rotation of:
Yu - #1/2
Holland - #1/2
Harrison - #2/3
Ogando - #2/3
CLew - #3
Feliz
Feldman

Will rumors of Garza and Gio continue?

Will the Rangers be dumping/trading guys?
Would this be incredible:
Yu
Holland
Shields (Harrison/CLew/Engel Betre)
Garza (Ogando/Olt)
Gio (Feliz/Feldman+Cash)

Ok... I really need Spring Training to get here...

Wonder what it takes to sign him? 5 for 75ish has a nice ring.

Just got done watching Sherlock Holmes and see this. **** yeah

Right now it's debatable whether or not they keep Ogando at a starting position instead of a long reliever like feldman. If they sign him then I don't expect them to sign too many other starting pitchers. Especially with that offense. They can almost make any pitcher look like they had a quality start.

This move is solid for this team. Nolan has made it clear that he has a solid team and wants a championship now.

This means next season we get to see Strasburg, Yu, Moore, and so many other studs pitch for their first complete season.

Spring training needs to hurry up.

Poor word choice there, my fault. Let me re-phrase it:

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Just from the way it played out I think Texas decided Wilson wasn't really interested in coming back....

....But down the stretch it seemed like LAAA and Miami were the only two teams he was really considering. I think Texas felt like CJ had no real desire to return to Texas and never really made re-signing him a priority.

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This suggests you believe it was CJs decision, and the Rangers would have wanted CJ had he been interested. I would contend the Rangers wouldn't lowball CJ had they had real interest. I would contend it wasn't CJs interest level, but "baseball reasons" why they wanted Yu instead of CJ.

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The offer/interest they put into CJ and what they just bid for Darvish tells me that they decided when the 2011 season concluded that between CJ Wilson and Yu Darvish, they wanted Yu and planned accordingly.

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Sure, that's quite plausible, and that's an entirely different scenario than CJ not being interested later in the off-season.

In fact, a low-ball offer, compared to Miami, not necessarily LAA, per CJ, almost suggests the Rangers thought CJ was very fond of Texas, not against staying in Texas.

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Wonder what it takes to sign him? 5 for 75ish has a nice ring.

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Haha.

I'd be shocked if it was anywhere near that high. After the Dice-K disaster, I'd be shocked if they were to pay Darvish 25 million more (in one less season).

Who is/going to be Darvish's agent? I'm curious to find out what strange perks will be included in the deal. I think Dice-K got a Lincoln Town Car.

Arn Tellem

Oh, interesting, he can be as bad/demanding as Boras.

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Right now it's debatable whether or not they keep Ogando at a starting position instead of a long reliever like feldman.

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I just don't see where this is logical.

You don't take a young arm (when it comes service time) that proved over the course of a year he was a legitimate rotation piece and put him back in the bullpen... only to take another young arm from that same bullpen and give him a shot at the rotation.

Ogando got moved to the bullpen late last year in an attempt to try and limit his innings in his first year as a starter -- not because they feel he is more valuable in a bullpen role than as a starter.

Ogando might not be in the rotation, but I don't think it'll have to do with Scott Feldman.

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I would contend the Rangers wouldn't lowball CJ had they had real interest. I would contend it wasn't CJs interest level, but "baseball reasons" why they wanted Yu instead of CJ.

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The reality is... if the Rangers didn't think CJ wanted to come back for sure, they'd have offered enough to drive the price up just a bit.

I don't think we'll ever know the real story.

CJ was vocal about what he was offered by Texas... either offended or disappointed.

I think LAAA was on the border about how much to offer him... Texas nudging the price up might have pushed him out of their limit...

I guess we'll see what Texas' policy is on 5 and 6 year Pitcher's contracts.

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This suggests you believe it was CJs decision, and the Rangers would have wanted CJ had he been interested. I would contend the Rangers wouldn't lowball CJ had they had real interest. I would contend it wasn't CJs interest level, but "baseball reasons" why they wanted Yu instead of CJ.

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Texas wasn't going to sign both Yu and CJ. They made a decision (for whatever reason -- scouting, club fit, an assumption that CJ didnt want to be in Texas) that Darvish was their "Plan A" and planned accordingly.

My guess is Texas walked into the meeting with Wilson and stated that they were not prepared to make an offer until after the Darvish bidding process, but if they *had* to make an offer that week, it was $xx/xx years -- likely a "lowball" amount because it was taking into account budgeting for the Darvish bidding.

CJ wasn't willing to wait and/or liked the Angels offer more.

I think it's clear Yu was Plan A.

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The reality is... if the Rangers didn't think CJ wanted to come back for sure, they'd have offered enough to drive the price up just a bit.

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Perhaps, but I have to ask...did you mean to support my opinion? Its hard to tell.

Either way Ogando is the only piece of the puzzle that I'm questionable about. Plus now that Feliz is no longer the closer he could return to starting.

I wouldn't be surprised if Feliz and Ogando split time at the starting position. It's definitely clear Feldman is their long reliever.

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Perhaps, but I have to ask...did you mean to support my opinion? Its hard to tell.

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Yes.

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My guess is Texas walked into the meeting with Wilson and stated that they were not prepared to make an offer until after the Darvish bidding process, but if they *had* to make an offer that week, it was $xx/xx years -- likely a "lowball" amount because it was taking into account budgeting for the Darvish bidding.

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I can see that, but again, that's entirely different than saying CJ wasn't interested in staying in Texas, so they took themselves out of the race.

That scenario is: From a "baseball" standpoint, they liked Yu better.

Good stuff, Dallas.

I'm reminded by Heyman...Rangers offer to CJ was alledgedly 4 for 60.

That would take the Miami offer to around 8 years and 120 million?

Man, they're really feeling spunky on South Beach, aren't they?

CJ is a mental case. Hopefully Darvish is a bull upstairs.

A few thoughts after watching this play out...

I agree that Yu was obviously Plan A all along. I kinda had a feeling that this was the case based on the CJ non-offer offer, but all the Toronto reports disheartened me after the bids were submitted. It is a great move by the Rangers to keep building more momentum during an off season where things had a risk of really getting stale. Resigning CJ, while it would have been good for baseball purposes and probably would have made the R's the favorites heading into Spring, it would have not given the fans much to hope for as far as gettting over the hump. It would pretty much just set up for more of the same (which has been great, don't get me wrong). Signing Yu has a chance to give the Ranger fans something to look forward to instead of just fearing havng to face Pujols all season.

As for:

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they don't consider him to be Japanese ethnically or culturally (he's half-Iranian and both of his parents met in the United States), so I suppose there's at least some possibility that he won't wilt under the pressure of playing in the US.

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I think the failure of past Japanese pitchers has more to do with physique then it does wilting under pressure. I can not tell you the exact sizes of previous imports, but none of them struck me as having that mound presence needed to be dominant at that level. There is a reason there is only ONE pitcher in the Hall of Fame that is shorter then 6'0 (and he is 5'11). From what I understand, Yu has a much more power based approach vs. trying to be successful with only his craftiness which, in my mind, gives him a MUCH better chance of being the dominant #1 that they are paying for.


As for the 2012 season:
The battle for rotation spots is going to be VERY interesting to watch this Spring. By my count, I think that Yu, Feliz, and Holland are the only locks. That leaves a plethora of guys to fill the last two spots

Harrison
CLew
Ogando
Feldman
or some of the younger guys.

I honestly have no idea how to even handicap that competition. If you based it on 2011, I would think Harry and Ogando would be your front runners, but how do you pass up the franchise's all time playoff wins/ERA leader? Not to mention Feldman might have been the most reliabe pitcher down the stretch last year.

With that in mind, when was the last time the Rangers have actually gone into a Spring Training with too many solid to spectacular arms ready to fill the rotation. It seems like I am always used to waiting to see who amoung the heap of spare parts would step up in Spring and fill the last 2-3 spots in the rotation and then praying that those guys managed to eek out a sub-5.50 ERA.

Now, look at the median age of that list of potential starters if you really want to blow your mind.......
It is a good time to be a Ranger's fan!!!!

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With that in mind, when was the last time the Rangers have actually gone into a Spring Training with too many solid to spectacular arms ready to fill the rotation. It seems like I am always used to waiting to see who amoung the heap of spare parts would step up in Spring and fill the last 2-3 spots in the rotation and then praying that those guys managed to eek out a sub-5.50 ERA.

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Agreed - it's completely refreshing not to have to hope maybe Dave Burba can give you solid innings on the back-end or that Brandon McCarthy can get into top-of-rotation form.

The Angels rotation is still better because it's proven... and if we were rolling out 4 "unproven" guys with potential I wouldn't feel all that great.

But we'll be rolling out 7 guys in spring training all that have either shown over a season they can be a MLB starter or have the legitimate potential to be.

Pieces are going to be moved - so they key now is not to move the ones that can make the most impact.