Woods Ag said:

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And I don't want to give up either of those guys. I love Whitmore and I'm optimistic Reed can become a real player for us down the road.

I don't like trading rookies.

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Price you gotta pay to get an All-NBA player.

Sengun/Adams
Jabari/Eason
Brooks/Heurter
Green/Amen
Swipa/Holliday

Still gotta get some consistent shooting, but that's a salty team. The other thing would be to consider a Jabari+picks for Cam Johnson, too. Lose out on age, but really good consistent shooter.

I mean with Danny Ainge, John Stockton, and Jeff Hornacek all long since retired, if you're going to throw an annoying white guy face first into the court, you can't do much better than Tyler Herro.

Sengun/Adams
Jabari/Brooks/Eason
Eason/Brooks
Amen/Holiday/Vleet
Fox/Vleet

Send Green to the g league. I'm fine if he doesn't get another minute. Give Amen as many minutes as he can handle and let him develop. He might be a superstar in 2-4 years and he's already a stud.

Van Vleet was better earlier in his career as a catch and shoot.

Again, I'm not giving up Whitmore or Reed, yet. If I had to I'd wait for the offseason to send Green.

In less high on Jabari, but I still see moments of "mmm.. maybe"

Guitarsoup said:

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Another angle of the altercation.

pic.twitter.com/BzRdHQen7c

— Hoop Central (@TheHoopCentral) December 30, 2024

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Not a good look for the Rockets.

Meh. Not bad at all. Amen got into a tussle and it happens. The rest was overblown.

I don't think that Green has a lot of suitors around the league. Defense is still bad, offense is still erratic and inefficient. They would want FVV now because there is a team option on him next year and it clears them a ton of salary.

I get not wanting to give up on the young guys too early, but bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Yeah. I hear you.

I was on Reed so early though. And my dream came true with him coming to the rockets.. lol I'm biased as hell there.

I wouldnt trade a hangover for Green, but for fun's sake what's the most someone would give for him now? I had dreams of Grady Dick, DaAaron Fox, Tyler Herro.. could we get Jordan Hawkins for him? Assuming it was possible to trade him at the deadline in an alternate world.

I just remembered. Watched Lonzo the other night. I'd take him.. or a flier on Scoot Henderson

Woods Ag said:

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Yeah. I hear you.

I was on Reed so early though. And my dream came true with him coming to the rockets.. lol I'm biased as hell there.

I wouldnt trade a hangover for Green, but for fun's sake what's the most someone would give for him now? I had dreams of Grady Dick, DaAaron Fox, Tyler Herro.. could we get Jordan Hawkins for him? Assuming it was possible to trade him at the deadline in an alternate world.

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I am a big fan of Reed. I think he was the right pick and he will work out well long term.

I don't think Green has any value on the trade market. 3y105M contract for no defense and 33rd percentile on true shooting. He just hasn't really shown development in his 4 years. He has shown flashes, but he needs to grow as a player and I am not really seeing it. I think he is a negative asset for most teams. Dick and Hawkins are on rookie contracts so the deal would have to be bigger. Heat arent moving Herro for Green.

All it takes is one You 100% shop him around after the season and see if anyone bites. If not then you just roll with what you got

He's an extremely low IQ player. All the talent, no brains.

Idk what the salaries are but Time Lord and Scoot for Jalen. Do it!

Only teams with really bad contracts will take Jalen right now. Portland would make you take Grants albatross of a contract before giving you Scoot. Washington would gladly give us Poole...and Ime would immediately murder him.

Middleton or Lavine and their broken down bodies and massive contracts might be our only options.

Might as well just roll with Jalen for 2 more years and then dump him as an expiring.

Anything is better than keeping him.

It was apparent after year 2. Then we had to do year 3 with Udoka to see if he could fix him, and THEN we gave him the contract. I don't understand how GMs can be so dumb.

Amen suspended 2 games

Nice bounce back W after the 2 game slide.

Jalen can't be traded this year. I'm not sure why there is so much discussion about something that can't happen?

I also don't understand the hate. He's very good, but not great, and the team is exceeding expectations under his watch.

Haven't had a chance to look at the replay but judging by the box score, Whitmore had a nice little game off the bench, spark plug scorer

The offense was rough to start and he came in with a quick 10. Got the team rolling.

The hate for Jalen is this. He's talented but terribly inconsistent. He shoots a ton, makes a little outside of slams/layups around the rim, and he turns the ball over a ton. In critical situations. He's not a ball handler.

They are winning despite him. Not under his leadership. But he's flashy, and he gets hot on occasion. Hes another Westbrook type. My thoughts anyways.

Jalen Green is far from "very good".

Jalen Green reminds me of Kevin Martin. On a bad team he scores 25 a night and makes the All-Star team every year. On a good team he's really feast or famine.

But in your gut you know there's a 7 for 26, 1-for-13 from the arc, 11-points in a playoff Game 7 performance coming from him sometime later this year that you're never going to be able to forgive.

I guess it depends on how you define "very good," but I think you are letting his disappointing performances cloud your judgement.

He's top 25 in defensive efficiency thus year so that aspect of his game is clearly very good. He's inconsistent offensively. So overall maybe just good?

At either rate, once his no trade tag expires I'm definitely not saying he is untouchable. This team is two deep in good to very good players. We could definitely benefit from a ball in their hands in crutch time great player. Alpy might be heading in that direction. I think Cam is a budding super star. But right now we don't definitively have one.

Silent For Too Long said:

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I guess it depends on how you define "very good," but I think you are letting his disappointing performances cloud your judgement.

He's top 25 in defensive efficiency thus year so that aspect of his game is clearly very good. He's inconsistent offensively. So overall maybe just good?

At either rate, once his no trade tag expires I'm definitely not saying he is untouchable. This team is two deep in good to very good players. We could definitely benefit from a ball in their hands in crutch time great player. Alpy might be heading in that direction. I think Cam is a budding super star. But right now we don't definitively have one.

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https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630224/defense-dash

Players are shooting above their averages when he guards them overall and at the 3pt line (by a lot.)

Crafted's advanced stats put Jalen at the 6th percentile of defenders. https://craftednba.com/players/jalen-green

I think Jalen has the athletic ability to be a good defender, but he doesn't have the BBIQ or dawg in him that FVV has.

Similar problems on offense. When he is hot, he puts up Booker-like numbers, but he's more often not.

I'm still a true believer in Reed, too.

Houston Rockets

Kelly Iko: You were high on Sheppard during the predraft process, citing his floor spacing, defensive playmaking and overall half-court offensive IQ as reasons why his game should translate to the NBA. Through the first three months of the season, Sheppard is shooting less than 30 percent from 3, the Rockets hemorrhage points when he's on the floor (7.2 per 100 possessions) and he's still adjusting to NBA physicality.

What do you see when you watch him? And do you think there's a spot for him in Ime Udoka's tight rotation?

Sam Vecenie: Yeah, I'm not worried about Sheppard at this point. I didn't see much of a path to a significant role for him this season due to the presence of Fred VanVleet and knowing the role Jalen Green would play on this team. Those two were always going to have heavy usage within this group, and this season was always going to be a physical adjustment for Sheppard.

Due to the size issues, you can't play Sheppard with VanVleet who, despite his shooting struggles, plays 35 minutes per game because he's excellent at organizing the offense and communicating on defense while fighting through screens. VanVleet has still been worth about 4.5 wins this year according to DunksandThrees's Estimated Plus Minus-based model, a number that has him currently ranked No. 11 in the NBA. That's wildly aggressive and I wouldn't have VanVleet near that mark, but he's still an above-average starting point guard. And, even though Green has improved a bit as a defender this season, I wouldn't trust a team's backcourt decision-making if they were playing a rookie lead guard and Green.

The minutes were unlikely to be there for Sheppard this year unless he was a top-100 player in the league from the jump, which rookies rarely are. On top of that, the continued emergence of Amen Thompson, with his ability to be a secondary playmaker on the court, along with Alperen engn's skill when Houston runs its offense through him, mean the Rockets can stagger the minutes of VanVleet, Green, Thompson and engn to ensure the team has enough creativity on the court. That reduces the impact of a true "backup point guard."

Would it be better if the Sheppard who played in summer league showed up and his play demanded he enter the lineup? Of course. But it doesn't feel like he's had a settled role at any point this year, either. The peripherals of the on/off numbers don't look that bad when you dig into the weeds. The team shoots better from both 2-point and 3-point range when he's on the court. They have a better true shooting percentage. Overall, the shot quality is about the same, per PBPStats.com. The big things that seem to be dragging Sheppard's on/off numbers down are rebounding and turnovers. The team gets fewer offensive and defensive rebounds when he's out there, which isn't his fault. They're converting an inordinately low number of their second-chance opportunities when he's on the court. The second issue is the team also turns the ball over more when he's on the court. That could easily be construed as his fault given he's the point guard, but he's also only averaging 1.8 turnovers per 36 minutes. So that's not particularly fair, either.

For me, the main scouting-based issues are on defense, where he struggles to guard anyone on the ball. For that, he needs to get stronger, which we knew was going to be an issueespecially when playing for a defensive-minded coach like Udoka. This is a real concern that needs targeted improvement.

But overall, none of this seems worrisome. Sheppard is a top-three pick drafted onto a team that has been in the top four in the Western Conference all season long. It's hard for one-and-done rookies to establish themselves in roles under those circumstances. I'd preach patience at this point with Sheppard. My guess is he looks drastically better in 2025-26. The shooting, passing and ball-screen skills we saw in summer league still project well at the next level.

Iko: Would you advocate for Sheppard to time in the G League? Or is it better developmentally to spend his time with the Rockets, regardless of whether he's getting consistent minutes or not?

Vecenie: Spending time in both arenas would make sense. Give him a few games here and there in Rio Grande Valley to get on-ball reps and let him play through some mistakes while getting adjusted to the increased athleticism of the pro game. Also, regularly bring him back to the Rockets to make sure he's on the right track in terms of strength training while also giving him a chance to see the NBA game up close. It doesn't feel like it has to be an either/or situation; the solution should include both.

I had a buddy of mine make a good point. Would the Rockets be better with Zach Lavine instead of Jalen Green?

Probably so. And it's sobering to think about lol

texasaggie2015 said:

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I had a buddy of mine make a good point. Would the Rockets be better with Zach Lavine instead of Jalen Green?

Probably so. And it's sobering to think about lol

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Offensively, LaVine is pretty solid as a scorer, shooter, and secondary ball handler. He's a similar level defense, but way more efficient and consistent on offense. This year is 22/4/4 on 51/44/81 shooting.

LaVine has 2y 95M left and Green's extension is 3y105M. LaVine's contract would feel pretty awful if he is hurt again. The best ability is availability.

I hear you, but that hypothetical was assuming both guys are healthy.

Reed's real "problem" is that the Rockets are a bit ahead of schedule.

Even our most optimistic posters probably didn't think we'd go from 20 wins to 41 wins to on a pace for 55 wins this year.

If the team was still in the range of 3 games over or under .500 right now, you can see him getting a lot more minutes because clearly something wouldn't be working that well. But with Van Vleet and Brooks both among the minutes leaders and a whopping 7 guys averaging at least 11.3 points, where would his minutes come from?

My feel of Udoka - and I have no problem if this is his mentality -is the old school belief that if you're a young guy, he's got no use for you until you start contributing. He's in there to give the starters a 2-3 minute breather once a quarter or eat up garbage time. If you can't make the most of that scenario, there is zero reason to give you more PT - not his problem, he knows that the window is starting to open up in the West, not time for rookie development.

texasaggie2015 said:

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I hear you, but that hypothetical was assuming both guys are healthy.

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Both guys healthy, LaVine is significantly better. But he averaged 58 games per season prior to this year and he turns 30 before the playoffs. He's a good player and he would fill a lot of needs on this Rockets team for sure.

Shams says Jimmy Butler prefers the Suns, Warriors, Rockets, Mavericks as desired destinations. https://t.co/E7M4klNkRV

— Luca Rosano (@lucarosano3) January 3, 2025

Why do we want to trade once again for a disgruntled older player??? What does jimmy offer that we don't already have? He isn't worth the headache when he doesn't get the ball enough. Have we not leaned our lesson on trading for for old vets like him?

I'm a Jimmy Butler fan. We need a closer and leadership. Someone else to help these young guys come along that'll demand more from them.

In theory, Jimmy would provide that and that's the appeal. I don't know that he has what the Rockets need in the tank still at 35 from an on court perspective, and I wouldn't want to give anything away for him (except for Jalen Green, but as has been beat to death - not a possibility).

League sources tell The Stein Line that it is by no means an automatic that the Rockets would pursue Fox should he be made available after the season.

17 hours ago via marcstein.substack.com

Jabari fractured his hand and will be out 4-8 weeks.

Yeesh, at a shoot around, too... curious how this affects the team's rotations