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At least we only have to watch 11 more games of this.

The reason I'm still on the fence about Vassell for the long term future. He is so wildly inconsistent for someone making as much money as he is…same with Keldon

Vassell's shot selection, particularly on his jumpers can just be really bad at times. I think we are seeing that he cannot be a number 2. We need another guy. Between a number 2 and Wemby, things would really open up for Devin so he doesn't have to force things.

If Keldon stays on our team, the reality is that he's not going to be on the floor in crunch time. If he plays out his contract and the spurs end up being competitive, he should only be getting 15 mins per game off the bench.

AA said:

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The reason I'm still on the fence about Vassell for the long term future. He is so wildly inconsistent for someone making as much money as he is…same with Keldon

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Vassell has shown improvement each year and more consistency than anyone else the last few years. He's probably not destined to be a true star but he's a very valuable piece. And his contract reflects that. It's not even close to a max deal and most nights it looks like a bargain.

Devin's contact goes from 20% to 13% of the cap. I'm totally fine with it.

I am most disappointed by his defense being less than advertised. Wish he played D like the Buffalo or Caruso.

Devin should be out #3 and I think he's solid for that role

Devin Booker on Wemby: “Just a force. I think my favorite part about him is his mindset.”

Full quote pic.twitter.com/DdRq66Azd9

— Paul Garcia (@PaulGarciaNBA) March 24, 2024

Keldon shooting doesn't open up anything

Guitarsoup said:

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Keldon shooting doesn't open up anything

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He needs to say we need to 'actually make shots' to open up things for Wemby. Teams are fine double/triple teaming Victor and giving us open 3 point looks.

I'm probably going to be the last survivor on Keldon island pretty soon. His overall stats aren't great but he has enough good games to make me want to keep him.

To me his defense, already bad, has just gotten even worse. I like his rebounding but if his shot isn't falling, he really doesn't help this group.

Edit: And he acts like a leader, but he doesn't have the cache to justify being a leader. If that makes sense. I guess what I'm trying to say is, at the end of the day, we are going to need others leading this team, and he will be a very small piece to us being successful.

No Victor tonight.

I like keldon a lot, but his defense is godawful and seems to get worse each year and his eFG/TS/FG%/3FG% are all below league average.

On the court, he brings nothing to the table.

He's below Graham on defensive rebound %. He's below bassey, Branham, Collins and Mamu in assist %. He's below everyone except Collins and Branham at steal %. He's below everyone except Graham, Jones, and Branham at block %. His usage is 3rd highest on the team.

Replacement level production is being generous right now.

TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

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I think you're out of line saying that he brings nothing to the table on the court.

He's not a sniper but hits enough that people don't dare leaving him alone out there (looking at you Sochan). He is one of our more willing drivers and is as efficient from 2 as anyone else on our team save for Zach. And he is an above average rebounder for his size.

He is a negative defensively, not a very good playmaker, and has a tendency to make dumb decisions at crucial times. But saying he brings nothing to the court and then using Devonte Graham's offensive rebounding percentage (the same Devonte Graham who has played in 15 games for a whopping 124 minutes) as proof is just arguing in bad faith.

He's still one of the 3-5 best players on this team. That says more about our team than anything else, but we also have the dude on a fair and descending contract. He's 24, a reasonably reliable scorer, sacrificed his starting spot to a worse player because it was what is best for the team and did so without complaint, was our leading scorer last year when many people thought Devin was going to be the one taking the reigns, and has experience both at Kentucky and Team USA being a high energy guy that can play a role when surrounded by a more talented cast. Unless he is part of a package to bring in a true difference-maker, I see no reason to move on from him. There's no reason he can't have a Patty Mills type of 7/8 man role once we are contenders, and his contract isn't going to keep us from doing any of the things we need to do from a teambuilding standpoint.

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Don't compare him to other players on the worst team in the West. Compare him to rotation players on playoff teams.

OKC has for their wings Jalen Williams, Lu Dort, Josh Giddey, Carson Wallace, and Isaiah Joe and I take all of them over Keldon.

Minnesota has Ant, McD, NAW, and SloMo and i would take all over Keldon.

NOLA has CJ McCollum, Ingram, Herb Jones, Trey Murphy and I take all over Keldon.


Again, like most Spurs fans, I like Keldon, but if we are trying to build a playoff rotation, he doesn't contribute to that. Sochan doesn't until he improves a lot as well, but I have more faith in Sochan improving than I do Keldon at this point. Keldon has had 300 NBA games and all with the same coaching staff.

On a championship level team, I think he's an 8th man at Best. The difference between a guy like Patty and Keldon, is Party had a definable good talent. He could hit threes. In the 14 title team, he hit 41% in the playoffs. Keldon just doesn't have any single skill that we can point to and say "sure, he sticks at defense, but at least he gives us ____"

He doesn't rebound, pass, shoot, defend, etc well. He puts his head down, drives, them finishes average or worse at the rim.

I guess I just don't see why we can't keep adding talent and shuffling him down the pecking order until he IS in that 7th/8th man role. He's been gracious about accepting role changes in the past so there's no reason to think he won't continue to accept what is best for the team. There are plenty of guys in the mid-bench role that are making in the same range as him (Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell, Rui Hachimura are a few) so it isn't a drastic overpay even if he were to shuttle down to that kind of role, especially with the cap set to climb.

TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

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I guess I just don't see why we can't keep adding talent and shuffling him down the pecking order until he IS in that 7th/8th man role. He's been gracious about accepting role changes in the past so there's no reason to think he won't continue to accept what is best for the team. There are plenty of guys in the mid-bench role that are making in the same range as him (Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell, Rui Hachimura are a few) so it isn't a drastic overpay even if he were to shuttle down to that kind of role, especially with the cap set to climb.

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You know what the difference between Keldon and DR, Norman and Rui: Keldon is the only one that doesn't have a single plus skill. Keldon is just mid all around. If Keldon was a 41% 3pt shooter, this would be a different conversation.

We will continue adding talent and Keldon will likely be moved away as matching salary in the next two years.

Like I have said many times, I think he is a great team and locker room guy. The players all seem to love him. But to make 20M/year, you need to be more than a locker room guy. And for us to win, we need guys that are good at one or more things. Keldon is not a good player in any facet of the game. We can't just put him in and count on him to make stops or hit threes or anything. He's just super mid or below average at everything.

If somehow he isn't moved to match salaries over the next two years, I'd love to keep him at a salary for a player in the 8-10 range of most important players. Something below Tre Jones. Because Tre Jones adds value on the court and off the court. I think Keldon adds value off the court only.

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Part of the reason his stats are so bad is because he's basically the number one option on one of the worst second teams in the league.

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His efficiency is marginally better this year than last. I don't buy that excuse.

The only time he really looked good was two years ago playing with DJM.

Theoretically, if we made a Trae Young type move, it is possible that he remembers how to make shots. But I think Keldon is what he is. He's a great guy and a bowling ball, but not someone I want in my playoff rotation of 8 players.

Enzo The Baker said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Keldon shooting doesn't open up anything

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He needs to say we need to 'actually make shots' to open up things for Wemby. Teams are fine double/triple teaming Victor and giving us open 3 point looks.

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This is why I hope we draft somebody that can shoot. Or if not, then sign or trade for someone.

We all agree Keldon's best asset is his ability to drive, right?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*keldon&dir=D&sort=DRIVES

He averages just under 50% on his 8 drives a game, gets about half an assist on those drives (so he isn't creating other points by slashing and dishing), commits charging about 1/10 drives, and turns the ball over about as often as he gets an assist.

This is his best asset!

Devin is up over 55% on his drives, and turns it over less, and creates more assists.

Tre Freaking Jones hits 53% of his FGs on the same number of drives per game,

Am I crazy or has Tre really improved a lot this season? Love KJs energy but...yeah I'm thinking his role should diminish over the next couple of years and that 6th-8th man role may be a stretch.

Good game from Jeremy tonight. 26 pts 18 reb and a clutch 3 for the win.

Spurs won 3/4 against the Suns someone needs to get fired or cut

I'll stay on Keldon Island. He's the one guy who bring consistent energy and fierceness to the game. You can't measure his impact with stats alone. Yeah, he doesn't finish every drive but he stays aggressive and that impacts the other team.. he's also one of the more fearless shooters on the team. There's been several games where he's had stretches of carrying the team. The Laker win a couple weeks ago is an example. He seems to have a good feel for his night. He's a guy that's not going to put up 20 shots if he ain't hitting. But is he is on a roll he'll put the team on his back.

Oh and did I mention the energy? Que tonight's highlights. Not a single Sun outside of Durant and Booker wanted to match the effort coming from Sochan and Johnson.

Sometimes I catch myself thinking he's earned PG#1 for next year.

I really like the mix in our starters minus Champagnie and nobody expects him to be starter material in the future. I think because of how bad Zach was starting next to Wemby, it forced a different strategy (even outside of Point Sochan) and Pop was trying to level up Julian from a end of the bench guy into a 8-10 role and gave him the starts to try to hasten the process. I think Sochan leveled up his pursuit of Diaw-hood (or is on his way) and Tre has leveled up his overall.

So in my head I kinda like the Tre/Devin/???/Sochan/Wemby as a starting 5, I'm just not sure what role the ??? plays. I still feel Sochan is going to wind up a little more like Bowen than Rodman but he'd be an all star if he could somehow figuring out the scoring/shooting (yeah he went for 27 or whatever tonight I know) at least as being more consistent...then we just need more rebounding.

If we could start 2 Sochans that would be perfect. Raw as hell but probably not even a 35 win team for a year or two and that's depending on the entire team progressing. So then I wonder, what fills in the ??? thats possible for acquisitions in the off-season?

Thats where it gives me too many rabbit holes to go down and I think overall it just means..I am not 100% sold on drafting a PG with our highest 1rp.

superunknown said:

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Sometimes I catch myself thinking he's earned PG#1 for next year.

I really like the mix in our starters minus Champagnie and nobody expects him to be starter material in the future. I think because of how bad Zach was starting next to Wemby, it forced a different strategy (even outside of Point Sochan) and Pop was trying to level up Julian from a end of the bench guy into a 8-10 role and gave him the starts to try to hasten the process. I think Sochan leveled up his pursuit of Diaw-hood (or is on his way) and Tre has leveled up his overall.

So in my head I kinda like the Tre/Devin/???/Sochan/Wemby as a starting 5, I'm just not sure what role the ??? plays. I still feel Sochan is going to wind up a little more like Bowen than Rodman but he'd be an all star if he could somehow figuring out the scoring/shooting (yeah he went for 27 or whatever tonight I know) at least as being more consistent...then we just need more rebounding.

If we could start 2 Sochans that would be perfect. Raw as hell but probably not even a 35 win team for a year or two and that's depending on the entire team progressing. So then I wonder, what fills in the ??? thats possible for acquisitions in the off-season?

Thats where it gives me too many rabbit holes to go down and I think overall it just means..I am not 100% sold on drafting a PG with our highest 1rp.

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Champagnie was elevated to starter simply to get Keldon on the second unit. That crew was getting buried every night and they needed to become more competitive. I agree he's the weakest link and should easily be upgraded this offseason. I disagree with a Sochan clone. They need a dead eye shooter who isn't a zero on defense. I could see that being a draft pick. I will also be interested to see who's available.

Ag Natural said:

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superunknown said:

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Sometimes I catch myself thinking he's earned PG#1 for next year.

I really like the mix in our starters minus Champagnie and nobody expects him to be starter material in the future. I think because of how bad Zach was starting next to Wemby, it forced a different strategy (even outside of Point Sochan) and Pop was trying to level up Julian from a end of the bench guy into a 8-10 role and gave him the starts to try to hasten the process. I think Sochan leveled up his pursuit of Diaw-hood (or is on his way) and Tre has leveled up his overall.

So in my head I kinda like the Tre/Devin/???/Sochan/Wemby as a starting 5, I'm just not sure what role the ??? plays. I still feel Sochan is going to wind up a little more like Bowen than Rodman but he'd be an all star if he could somehow figuring out the scoring/shooting (yeah he went for 27 or whatever tonight I know) at least as being more consistent...then we just need more rebounding.

If we could start 2 Sochans that would be perfect. Raw as hell but probably not even a 35 win team for a year or two and that's depending on the entire team progressing. So then I wonder, what fills in the ??? thats possible for acquisitions in the off-season?

Thats where it gives me too many rabbit holes to go down and I think overall it just means..I am not 100% sold on drafting a PG with our highest 1rp.

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Champagnie was elevated to starter simply to get Keldon on the second unit. That crew was getting buried every night and they needed to become more competitive. I agree he's the weakest link and should easily be upgraded this offseason. I disagree with a Sochan clone. They need a dead eye shooter who isn't a zero on defense. I could see that being a draft pick. I will also be interested to see who's available.

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After Doug left, Julian is our second best shooter (Devin #1) and plays better defense than Keldon. But he's not Summer League Julian.

Agree completely we needed someone for the second team and Keldon makes sense.

Unless we get great value for someone, I don't expect us to try to make a lot of moves this summer. Bring in the new rookie and maybe bring back SloMo.

superunknown said:

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Sometimes I catch myself thinking he's earned PG#1 for next year.

I really like the mix in our starters minus Champagnie and nobody expects him to be starter material in the future. I think because of how bad Zach was starting next to Wemby, it forced a different strategy (even outside of Point Sochan) and Pop was trying to level up Julian from a end of the bench guy into a 8-10 role and gave him the starts to try to hasten the process. I think Sochan leveled up his pursuit of Diaw-hood (or is on his way) and Tre has leveled up his overall.

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I think Sochan is getting better (and last night showed that) but he is so unbelievably streaky and his scoring at the rim is abysmal. Last night was an aberration, but man if we got good defense, 8-10 rebounds, 12-15 points on efficient shooting and maybe 38% from three, he'd be a great role player for us. As of where he is right now, on a good team, he is coming off the bench. I still think he can be a better version of Diaw or maybe even Draymond.

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So in my head I kinda like the Tre/Devin/???/Sochan/Wemby as a starting 5, I'm just not sure what role the ??? plays.

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I love what Tre brings, but I think he is a guy that is like Trent Dilfer. He isn't winning you games, but isn't losing you games. If he can keep hitting these threes, it's gonna be killer. But no one is game planning for him. I think Tre is backup PG. He's elite for that role, but he is still a backup.

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I still feel Sochan is going to wind up a little more like Bowen than Rodman but he'd be an all star if he could somehow figuring out the scoring/shooting (yeah he went for 27 or whatever tonight I know) at least as being more consistent...then we just need more rebounding.

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I think as he adds a little more muscle, he will be better equipped to guard bigger guys, but he is certainly better on the perimeter right now.

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If we could start 2 Sochans that would be perfect. Raw as hell but probably not even a 35 win team for a year or two and that's depending on the entire team progressing. So then I wonder, what fills in the ??? thats possible for acquisitions in the off-season?

Thats where it gives me too many rabbit holes to go down and I think overall it just means..I am not 100% sold on drafting a PG with our highest 1rp.

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I think my #1 choice is drafting Sarr, which is different from a lot of Spurs fans, since he can't shoot (yet?)

Here is my reasoning:
* Sarr is a switchable defender. He can guard in post or on the perimeter. This is important for a lot of guys like Sabonis or JJJ. Because he can guard those PFs outside, or guard inside, I think he pairs really well with Wemby. Collins really can't handle the guys on the perimeter, which limited Wemby's ability to patrol the paint. Defensively, I think they work well together. Plus, when you need stops, you can roll out a front court of Wemby, Sarr, Sochan and you have great length.

* He's a good passer. I think we want to do the 14 team/OKC thing with all good passers.

* He finishes well at the rim.

* I don't like Wemby setting the picks on offense, because he is too tall and it gives a chance for asshats like Dillon Brooks to take a cheap shot at him. You make Sarr your pick man, and you let Wemby work off ball and have less chance of injury.

* His shot at least mechanically looks nice. FTs are .714. Not great, but not terrible.

For me, your playoff rotation is your starters, backup playmaker, backup wing, backup big.
You need 4 guys that can threaten from 3. We have 1. You need a primary and backup playmaker. Additionally, you need a bigger big just to eat minutes (and probably fouls) against guys like Joker. That may be Bassey. You need (at least) two plus perimeter defenders.

For playoff rotation:

C: Wemby
PF: ---
SF: ---
SG: Vassell
PG: ---
BIG: ---
WING: Sochan
2PG: Tre Jones

I think you can have Sochan at backup big or wing, but he can't guard in the post, so I am slotting him at wing for this discussion. He probably gets moved up to starter level eventually, but he isn't there yet. But I think the great thing about him is you can slot him at PF or SF, and change it fluidly depending on the team we are going against and matchups.

If we add Sarr to PF, the SF and PG need to be real threats from 3pt. But I don't know that you can put a no defense guy like Knecht there, unless Devin steps up his defense by not having to carry as much load on offense with a better PG.

As far as free agents, I still like bringing back Kyle Anderson. Great defender and passer and high BBIQ. I would start him at PF over Sochan right now next to Wemby. Maybe start Sochan at SF over Julian. KCP is also high on my list. Starter D&3 guy on two championship teams. Gimme.

The hardest part is PG. I don't think that Reed is a full time primary playmaker, I think Dillingham's peak is smaller Collin Sexton, and Topic can't shoot or defend. Collier seems to have a low BBIQ and just relies on his athleticism. None of the lottery picks mocked for next year are PGs. Focus on defense and threes in the draft and give the picks back (and nothing else) for Trae.

I'm also coming around on Sarr as our top pick if he becomes available as I do think he probably is the BPA. We definitely need SF and PG but if he has the best possibility of being an all star level player, I think you have to take him. Both he and Wemby would need to be better from behind the arc though for it to really work. Wemby is going to want to play on the perimeter some at the end of the day.

Enzo The Baker said:

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I'm also coming around on Sarr as our top pick if he becomes available as I do think he probably is the BPA. We definitely need SF and PG but if he has the best possibility of being an all star level player, I think you have to take him. Both he and Wemby would need to be better from behind the arc though for it to really work. Wemby is going to want to play on the perimeter some at the end of the day.

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And I think this draft you need to go BPA. Because we have too many holes in the lineup to not. None of the players we are considering are a strict center like Edy. And I don't even mine Edy as a backup big if we got him with out first 2nd.

If you think Sarr can become a player like JJJ, you have to take him, right? If Memphis imploded and you could get JJJ for our #1 pick overall, you do that in a heartbeat to fit next to Wemby, right? JJJ is shooting 44% 32% with 5.5r and 2.3a this year.