*****OFFICIAL 2019-2020 Houston Rockets*****

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Harry Dunne
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 1:46p, 12/9/20
Pippen was an awesome player, no doubt about it. I think you are taking the Shawn Marion comp as an insult but Marion was a great player too. A stud in his prime and maybe the third best player on a championship team in his later years. If Marion in his prime had been second fiddle to MJ who knows what his numbers would've looked like.

We will never know, but I think if he had been on another team, Pippen "only" would have been something like what Marion was to his generation. You GTFO with the surgery excuse. Pippen played 40 minutes in a full season for the Rockets, he was just fine. He played all 82 games the following season for Portland. He just didn't have MJ.

Eff Harden, and I will buy that Harden might never be as valuable to a championship team or a championship culture as Pippen was but still, you've got to acknowledge Pippen is nowhere near the basketball talent harden is.

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YNWA_AG
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1:53p, 12/9/20
AG
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Harry Dunne • 1:57p, 12/9/20
AG
Marion was a very good player. Pippen was probably one of the, if not the best perimeter defender throughout the 90s. On top of that, he basically ran the point from SF. Pippen is probably a top 25 all time player and top 5 SF. Marion may possibly be a HOFer after a few tries. He was a good defender, but not elite like Pippen. I honestly think Marion came too soon. He'd be much better in the smaller ball teams we see now. At least he found DAntoni in his prime so he could be used that way and get the stat pump.
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AG@RICE
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In reply to YNWA_AG • 2:10p, 12/9/20
AG
YNWA_AG said:
So by "every single day", does he mean the last 8 days? I wonder if Boogie experiences time at a different rate than us? Has that last 8 days felt like a season? Smoke enough weed and time starts to sloooooowwww down.
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Texan_Aggie
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In reply to AG@RICE • 2:45p, 12/9/20
AG
AG@RICE said:
YNWA_AG said:
So by "every single day", does he mean the last 8 days? I wonder if Boogie experiences time at a different rate than us? Has that last 8 days felt like a season? Smoke enough weed and time starts to sloooooowwww down.
I think he's trying to galvanize the team and send a message as it is abundantly clear Harden has not been team first, obviously. If Harden leaves, you still want a cohesive team. Maybe a hedge.
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Harry Dunne
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 3:43p, 12/9/20
I agree with all that. Good discussion. I did not expect to be arguing Scottie Pippen versus Shawn Marion today but it was fun to fire up the DeLorean

I still contend that James is in a different universe than Pippen and the only thing holding him back from being the lead dog on a championship team is lack of desire/commitment. As good as he was, I just don't think Pippen was a good enough basketball player to be a "the man" on a championship team, but James is.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Harry Dunne • 4:02p, 12/9/20
AG

Quote:
I still contend that James is in a different universe than Pippen and the only thing holding him back from being the lead dog on a championship team is lack of desire/commitment. As good as he was, I just don't think Pippen was a good enough basketball player to be a "the man" on a championship team, but James is.
I think Pippen could have been, but you have to build the team around him, which never happened obviously. Pippen on a team kind of like the 14 Spurs with lots of ball movement and defense would have been great for his strengths. Pippen would have been way better for that team than Kawhi was.

The list of superstars on champs is pretty small.

Bron
Curry
Kawhi
Dirk
Wade
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq
Jordan
Hakeem

Ten guys gets you back 30 years. Go back to 40 years to the beginning of the modern NBA and you need to add Dr. J, Bird, Magic and maybe Isiah Thomas.

I think Harden is talented enough to be on that list, but I've never really thought he had the mental game to be on that list. And his game hasn't exactly been the best in the playoffs. There are other guys talented enough to be on the list, but either attitudes, game style, coaching, or team they got stuck with kept them from achieving it.
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chris1515
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6:55p, 12/9/20
AG
TrueHoop has a great write up on the Rockets and their dysfunctional culture. Check it out.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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7:20p, 12/9/20
My only wish now is a multiple team trade where Harden ends up on the same team as Dwight Howard and Russell Westbrook.
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Harry Dunne
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8:00p, 12/9/20
Every Rockets fan right now...

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AG@RICE
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In reply to Harry Dunne • 8:08p, 12/9/20
AG
Harry Dunne said:
I agree with all that. Good discussion. I did not expect to be arguing Scottie Pippen versus Shawn Marion today but it was fun to fire up the DeLorean

I still contend that James is in a different universe than Pippen and the only thing holding him back from being the lead dog on a championship team is lack of desire/commitment. As good as he was, I just don't think Pippen was a good enough basketball player to be a "the man" on a championship team, but James is.


I'd argue desire and commitment are the #2 and 3 qualities you must posses to be a true champion.

I'd also argue that I'm not sure James' problem is desire. He works hard on his game and he carries the team during long periods of the year.

I think the real problem is he is too self absorbed as an individual. He doesn't form solid partnerships with others, nor does he seem to be aware of how he influences teammates.

I think the #1 trait on the list of championship characteristics is probably "leadership". James fails this test in every way possible. He is just too self centered to lead people against adversity. He is incredibly talented, but he loves to make himself the sole focus. Inevitably this will result in the system collapsing, even if he's playing well. Teams always beat individuals. Until he embraces that concept, he will never be a champion.
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Harry Dunne
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In reply to AG@RICE • 8:39p, 12/9/20
He certainly has the desire to be a great basketball player. When I said he lacks desire, I meant that he lacks desire to do the things it takes to lead his team to a championship, as you laid out above.
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Texas A&M
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9:53p, 12/9/20
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Good Poster
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In reply to Texas A&M • 10:02p, 12/9/20
AG
Did GA win a ring?
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Texas A&M
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In reply to Good Poster • 10:07p, 12/9/20
Good Poster said:
Did GA win a ring?
I guess Barkley should leave the TNT show.
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Poot
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In reply to Texas A&M • 11:03p, 12/9/20
What exactly would Agent Zero know about what it takes to be a champion?
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AgDoc03
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In reply to Texas A&M • 7:23a, 12/10/20
AG
Texas A&M said:


Milwaukee is on the east coast?
Gig 'Em Aggies
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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TREX01
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8:10a, 12/10/20
Its actually on the west coast of Lake Michigan. But Arenas didnt go to school on an academic scholarship
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Good Poster
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8:17a, 12/10/20
AG
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Aggie09Derek
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8:21a, 12/10/20
AG
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lil99chris
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8:29a, 12/10/20
AG
Can you imagine a team with Giannis and Harden? The game would be around 3 hours with all of the foul shots.
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CFTXAG10
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8:43a, 12/10/20
AG
Thats cute James. Milwaukee doesn't work unless they know they cannot re-sign Giannis and he would be willing to come to Houston and sign an extension. Miami might work but I don't see them breaking up the team that went to the finals.
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Farmer1906
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8:46a, 12/10/20
AG
Middleton and picks?
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CFTXAG10
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8:48a, 12/10/20
AG
There is a common theme here. Seems like he is hellbent on going to the East.
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Texaggie7nine
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In reply to CFTXAG10 • 8:49a, 12/10/20
He will at least get to the finals.
7nine
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lil99chris
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In reply to CFTXAG10 • 8:49a, 12/10/20
AG
I would be too. Don't have to deal with Clippers, Lakers, or Warriors (if healthy) until the Finals.
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Guitarsoup
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9:09a, 12/10/20
AG
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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9:21a, 12/10/20
I remain of the mindset that if/when the Rockets do a deal for Harden, it has to be one where anyone who looks at it immediately says "Wow, the Rockets won that trade going away."

Or tell Harden, we'll trade you wherever you want, but you have to shave your beard and never wear one again.
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CFTXAG10
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9:24a, 12/10/20
AG
I know it can be overcome, but the tone from guys like Tucker and Cousins when asked about Harden was interesting. You have to imagine those guys, Wall, Wood, and Coach Silas take these media leaks personally.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Fat Bib Fortuna • 9:24a, 12/10/20
AG

Quote:
I remain of the mindset that if/when the Rockets do a deal for Harden, it has to be one where anyone who looks at it immediately says "Wow, the Rockets won that trade going away."
When was the last time a team traded a top 10-15 player away and won the trade going away?
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Good Poster
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 9:26a, 12/10/20
AG
Guitarsoup said:

Quote:
I remain of the mindset that if/when the Rockets do a deal for Harden, it has to be one where anyone who looks at it immediately says "Wow, the Rockets won that trade going away."
When was the last time a team traded a top 10-15 player away and won the trade going away?
Paul George
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Harry Dunne
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In reply to Texas A&M • 9:27a, 12/10/20
Texas A&M said:
That's rich.

Advice on how to be a champion from a guy that shot 42% from the field over his career and never won a playoff game past the 1st round.
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9:38a, 12/10/20
AG
The only problem with the Paul George scenario was that in the minds of the Clippers, they were trading for both PG and Kawhi. If they didn't get the PG trade done, then they weren't getting Kawhi which made it a package deal in their heads.

Different situations but Rockets should wait and see what comes.
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Harry Dunne
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 9:41a, 12/10/20
Guitarsoup said:

Quote:
I remain of the mindset that if/when the Rockets do a deal for Harden, it has to be one where anyone who looks at it immediately says "Wow, the Rockets won that trade going away."
When was the last time a team traded a top 10-15 player away and won the trade going away?
The old saying is that regardless of how many players and picks are involved, the team that got the best player won the trade. I don't think there is any chance we are going to get someone that is currently a better player.

I do think Ben Simmons will be a better player than Harden in 3 years when he's in his prime at 27 and Harden is 34 and turning into Iso Joe 2.0. I think that's about as close as we are going to get to a win.
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Farmer1906
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9:44a, 12/10/20
AG
I wouldn't mind Tyler Herro on this team.
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