What do you think about the non-traveling calls in the NBA?

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Southlake
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11:30a, 3/30/19
Hardin's step back two steps after picking up his dribble with two feet set.

Jump stops where a player takes his step and a half on the dribble, lands on two feet and then takes an additional step and a half for a layup.

The standard 3 steps (getting the extra step while cupping the ball with one hand before the other hand makes contact). This is legal in my point of view and is a timing issue of when the ball was controlled by two hands.

Post player fakes left and right, dribbles one time with both feet established, fakes a shot, then takes his step in a half.


I'm an old school guy and hate to see traveling violations not called because the offense is so clearly favored now. It does flow down hill as I've seen college players (many in the Tournament) getting away with it and sometimes at the high school level too. As a former mediocre player , we all know we'll exploit and advantage the refs let us get away with. Last point.

What say you?
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Enzo The Baker
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11:53a, 3/30/19
AG
I hate all the crap that's allowed these days. And this comes from a Spurs fan who watches DeRozan travel on almost every possession. It's almost transforming into a different game.
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EllisCoAg
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10:22p, 3/30/19
AG
Traveling and turning the ball over while dribbling.
I wanna see our defense pissed off, not confused, maybe a little murder in their hearts Reload12, 11/4/11
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chris1515
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4:00p, 3/31/19
AG
The problem I have with those no calls is it's harder to say the game is officiated fairly for both teams.

If both teams are taking advantage of it, it's not as bad I guess.
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NoahAg
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10:32a, 4/1/19
I really dislike Harden's game, between the traveling and offensive foul non-calls. 20+ years ago he wouldn't have been nearly as effective as a player. But he's smart and is taking advantage of the way the game is called today.
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mazag08
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In reply to NoahAg • 1:20a, 4/2/19
AG
NoahAg said:
I really dislike Harden's game, between the traveling and offensive foul non-calls. 20+ years ago he wouldn't have been nearly as effective as a player. But he's smart and is taking advantage of the way the game is called today.


For all your phantom "offensive foul no calls" he gets hacked three times as much, doesn't get called, and still makes the shot.

Hate him all you want, but he's an elite scorer who baits players into committing actual fouls on him. You should probably focus more on hoping defenders get better at not reaching and slapping.
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Mike Elko
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In reply to mazag08 • 9:54a, 4/2/19
AG
mazag08 said:
NoahAg said:
I really dislike Harden's game, between the traveling and offensive foul non-calls. 20+ years ago he wouldn't have been nearly as effective as a player. But he's smart and is taking advantage of the way the game is called today.


For all your phantom "offensive foul no calls" he gets hacked three times as much, doesn't get called, and still makes the shot.

Hate him all you want, but he's an elite scorer who baits players into committing actual fouls on him. You should probably focus more on hoping defenders get better at not reaching and slapping.
We found a Rockets fan...

Harden's a flopper, period. The way he throws his arms/head back is pathetic, but the ignorant officials fall for it every single time. Props to him for finding a way to score a cheap 10 points per game.
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NoahAg
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In reply to mazag08 • 11:45a, 4/2/19
mazag08 said:
NoahAg said:
I really dislike Harden's game, between the traveling and offensive foul non-calls. 20+ years ago he wouldn't have been nearly as effective as a player. But he's smart and is taking advantage of the way the game is called today.


For all your phantom "offensive foul no calls" he gets hacked three times as much, doesn't get called, and still makes the shot.

Hate him all you want, but he's an elite scorer who baits players into committing actual fouls on him. You should probably focus more on hoping defenders get better at not reaching and slapping.
Look, I don't blame him. Like most every superstar he plays to how the game is called. But nearly every time he drives the lane the refs are ready to blow the whistle, assuming he's gonna get fouled.

He's a great player in any generation (although he would have lost a few teeth by now if this was the late 80s/early 90s); I just don't think it's entertaining basketball.
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Cynic
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12:54p, 4/2/19
I love how some of you act like this is a new phenomenon. Traveling no-calls have been an issue at least since the 90s. Superstar treatment from refs as well. Michael Jordan always get extra-preferential treatment but nobody remembers that now.

If it is so easy to spoof the refs into easy foul calls then why aren't other players exploiting it as well as Harden?

They aren't as good as him, that's why.

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M.C. Swag
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1:58p, 4/2/19
AG
Almost every nba player will travel at least once per game. Unless it's egregious, I really don't care.

I get far more infuriated with some of the other things offensive players get away with. For instance, Hardens traveling doesn't bother me nearly as much as the push offs or elbows to the chest he throws when driving the paint.
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Silent For Too Long
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5:55p, 4/2/19
It's not traveling. It may have been called as such at one point in history, but things like the euro step and the jump back have been called like this for several decades now.

Harden goes to the foul line because he gets fouled. He plays the game based on the current rules incredibly well, just like every great star before him. There also appears to be a tendency to forget how many fouls players like MJ, Dream, and Shaq use to draw in the 90s. Drawing fouls in the paint has been the hallmark of great scorers forever. It's just no one has ever done it as well as Harden, and that's what people have trouble admitting to themselves. Harden is doing things so unprecedented that it puts him in real rarefied air, and his detractors just can't admit that he's that great.

Back on topic, the stepback and euro are firmly established as legal and not a travel, so I don't really understand why people have a problem with it. It's legal now, and if you want it as part of your arsenal, try to master it like Harden has.
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mazag08
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In reply to Mike Elko • 2:25a, 4/3/19
AG
AustinAg2012 said:
mazag08 said:
NoahAg said:
I really dislike Harden's game, between the traveling and offensive foul non-calls. 20+ years ago he wouldn't have been nearly as effective as a player. But he's smart and is taking advantage of the way the game is called today.


For all your phantom "offensive foul no calls" he gets hacked three times as much, doesn't get called, and still makes the shot.

Hate him all you want, but he's an elite scorer who baits players into committing actual fouls on him. You should probably focus more on hoping defenders get better at not reaching and slapping.
We found a Rockets fan...

Harden's a flopper, period. The way he throws his arms/head back is pathetic, but the ignorant officials fall for it every single time. Props to him for finding a way to score a cheap 10 points per game.


Now you just sound butthurt. Get over it.
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misterguinness
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7:49a, 4/3/19
AG
The NBA isn't basketball, it's sports theater
2+2=5
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Southlake
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9:50a, 4/3/19
So, I still play a lot of pick up ball at one of the local churches. We are old school with our traveling rules. When the rules are defined rather than interpretated, (and I realized there is interpretation even when strictly following the rules) , the games is not only more fair, but also more clearly and consistently defined, much unlike the NBA.
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Faustus
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In reply to Southlake • 12:09p, 4/3/19
Southlake said:
So, I still play a lot of pick up ball at one of the local churches. We are old school with our traveling rules. When the rules are defined rather than interpretated, (and I realized there is interpretation even when strictly following the rules) , the games is not only more fair, but also more clearly and consistently defined, much unlike the NBA.
Lucky for you you get to play in the church league and not the NBA then.
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Head Ninja In Charge
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8:04a, 4/4/19
AG
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WES2006AG
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In reply to Head Ninja In Charge • 8:24a, 4/4/19
AG
That has to be a Donaghy situation right? There is just no other explanation. I guess I just want to believe that NBA officials aren't THAT incompetent.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Silent For Too Long • 12:14p, 4/6/19
AG
Quote:
There also appears to be a tendency to forget how many fouls players like MJ, Dream, and Shaq use to draw in the 90s
Hakeem had one season with 8.0 FTA and never attempted more than that.

Harden has averaged over 10 FTA in all but one season he has been a starter, and averaged 9.1 fta in that season.

Harden's lowest FTA as a starter was 9.1 FTA. Jordan topped that four times in his career, all in the 80s. Jordan never averaged 9.0 or better FTA in the 90s.

Shaq averaged a lot more than Dream or Jordan, but a lot of that was because of Hack-A-Shaq, something that the other three don't benefit from since Jordan, Harden, and Dream were/are good FT shooters. Hard to compare that. But even with Hack-A-Shaq, Shaq averaged 10.8 FTA/game for his career with the Lakers and Harden is not far behind him with 10.2 FTA/game with the Rockets. And teams aren't trying to get Harden to the line.
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AustinAg2K
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5:39p, 4/8/19
I don't really see much difference in the way the NBA is being officiated now and how it was back in the 90s. Superstars have always had more leeway for these kinds of things. I used to complain about all the travelling, but now I've realized I like the game better this way. Nothing is more annoying than constant whistles.

Also, the players who get the most foul calls are those that go to the basket. I'm sure if someone broke down the foul calls against Harden, they would see most come on drives to the basket and not his step back. Jordan got more fouls when he drove to the basket. Later in his career when he developed his outside shot and turn around fade away, he got less calls. Hakeem got less calls than most big men because a large portion of his shots were fade aways. If you look at the list of career free throw attempts, you'll see a lot of guys who played near the basket.
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SquirrellyDan
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In reply to NoahAg • 9:19a, 4/12/19
AG
NoahAg said:
I really dislike Harden's game, between the traveling and offensive foul non-calls. 20+ years ago he wouldn't have been nearly as effective as a player. But he's smart and is taking advantage of the way the game is called today.
You could say this about a lot of the premier players from the last several years.
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SquirrellyDan
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 9:22a, 4/12/19
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Quote:
There also appears to be a tendency to forget how many fouls players like MJ, Dream, and Shaq use to draw in the 90s
Hakeem had one season with 8.0 FTA and never attempted more than that.

Harden has averaged over 10 FTA in all but one season he has been a starter, and averaged 9.1 fta in that season.

Harden's lowest FTA as a starter was 9.1 FTA. Jordan topped that four times in his career, all in the 80s. Jordan never averaged 9.0 or better FTA in the 90s.

Shaq averaged a lot more than Dream or Jordan, but a lot of that was because of Hack-A-Shaq, something that the other three don't benefit from since Jordan, Harden, and Dream were/are good FT shooters. Hard to compare that. But even with Hack-A-Shaq, Shaq averaged 10.8 FTA/game for his career with the Lakers and Harden is not far behind him with 10.2 FTA/game with the Rockets. And teams aren't trying to get Harden to the line.
I agree, Harden is an all time great.
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SquirrellyDan
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 9:25a, 4/12/19
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Quote:
There also appears to be a tendency to forget how many fouls players like MJ, Dream, and Shaq use to draw in the 90s
Hakeem had one season with 8.0 FTA and never attempted more than that.

Harden has averaged over 10 FTA in all but one season he has been a starter, and averaged 9.1 fta in that season.

Harden's lowest FTA as a starter was 9.1 FTA. Jordan topped that four times in his career, all in the 80s. Jordan never averaged 9.0 or better FTA in the 90s.

Shaq averaged a lot more than Dream or Jordan, but a lot of that was because of Hack-A-Shaq, something that the other three don't benefit from since Jordan, Harden, and Dream were/are good FT shooters. Hard to compare that. But even with Hack-A-Shaq, Shaq averaged 10.8 FTA/game for his career with the Lakers and Harden is not far behind him with 10.2 FTA/game with the Rockets. And teams aren't trying to get Harden to the line.
Absolutely. They even tell players, at times, to literally hold their hands behind their back when guarding him, and they still can't help themselves from trying to reach into the cookie jar. Harden is so great at showing the ball, it looks like it would be easy to reach in and take it. But his combination of strength and quickness and ability to step back,drive, or pass are what lead to so many foul calls.

ETA: If you take away every free throw Harden has made this year, he's still within 2 point of leading the league in scoring.
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BQCadet
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11:26a, 4/19/19
AG
One of Hardens's biggest talents is how he dribbles. He makes it look like he is being slow and sloppy with his dribbles but can change angles and speed so quickly that you catch his arm instead of the ball when you reach. His handles are insane.
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Head Ninja In Charge
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2:52p, 4/19/19
AG
Behind Kyrie, Kemba, and Jamal Crawford, I think James has the best handle in the NBA. He has the best ball control in an ISO situation.
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94chem
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8:50a, 4/22/19
I had to guard a guy once in a pickup game who would massage the ball's undercarriage between each dribble, then act like he was doing some wicked cross-over before carrying it with the other hand like a running back through the hole. We told him to stop dribbling like it was AND-1, but when he kept doing it, I just took the ball, punted it 2 courts over, went home and let somebody else put up with him. Next week this guy wasn't there, and we had an actual game.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to BQCadet • 12:42p, 4/22/19
AG
BQCadet said:
One of Hardens's biggest talents is how he dribbles. He makes it look like he is being slow and sloppy with his dribbles but can change angles and speed so quickly that you catch his arm instead of the ball when you reach. His handles are insane.
idk, he's a pretty good actor too. Think CP3 been giving him some lessons cuz his flop game is on point.
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