Farmer1906 said:
Disagree. LA won that deal.
*****OFFICIAL 2018-2019 Houston Rockets*****
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Last: 4 yr ago by rvk246
This is the Carmelo Anthony to the Knicks trade all over. Lakers sacrificed too much to get a player they were going to sign in free agency anyway.
Davis is hurt a lot, Bron is going to fade and you can't assume that Superstar Alex Caruso (who used to be a ballboy) can carry the Lakers forever
Davis is hurt a lot, Bron is going to fade and you can't assume that Superstar Alex Caruso (who used to be a ballboy) can carry the Lakers forever
Hickory High said:
Explain?
The Lakers went from mid tier playoff team in the west when healthy to a contender. Seems pretty simple.
Guitarsoup said:
This is the Carmelo Anthony to the Knicks trade all over. Lakers sacrificed too much to get a player they were going to sign in free agency anyway.
Davis is hurt a lot, Bron is going to fade and you can't assume that Superstar Alex Caruso (who used to be a ballboy) can carry the Lakers forever
The Lakers have maybe a 2 year window with Lebron as a top tier player most likely. They committed like $160mm to all that noise already. They also have room for another really great player still... they don't have time to fart around waiting on players to develop and hoping their picks develop.
They 100% made the right move.
Agree they have to try to win now since LeBron is at 1440 total NBA games + international.
The problem is you can't win without depth and they currently have:
C: Davis, Mo Wagner
PF: LeBron, Kuzma
SF: Jerm Jones (played 6 games last year)
SG: ----
PG: Issac Bonga (scored 19 points on .152 shooting in 120 minutes last year)
My guess is they were going to go after Klay in addition to this, but that is probably out the window now.
So they probably need to sign some sort of guard. Doesn't have to be a point, if you want to just use Bron as point forward.
Options:
Kemba Walker - most likely target
Kyrie - not sure he would want to play with LeBron again, plus looks like he wants Brooklyn
Jimmy Butler
DAngelo Russell - would he want to come back?
Ricky Rubio - trade away Ball to get another PG that can't shoot, but one that also doesn't play as good defense.
So pay Kemba the max and use the MLE on a D&3 player (Danny Green?) then hope you can get some role players to take min contracts to chase a ring with LeBron.
Maybe it works, but I think they are going to not have enough depth to make it work.
The problem is you can't win without depth and they currently have:
C: Davis, Mo Wagner
PF: LeBron, Kuzma
SF: Jerm Jones (played 6 games last year)
SG: ----
PG: Issac Bonga (scored 19 points on .152 shooting in 120 minutes last year)
My guess is they were going to go after Klay in addition to this, but that is probably out the window now.
So they probably need to sign some sort of guard. Doesn't have to be a point, if you want to just use Bron as point forward.
Options:
Kemba Walker - most likely target
Kyrie - not sure he would want to play with LeBron again, plus looks like he wants Brooklyn
Jimmy Butler
DAngelo Russell - would he want to come back?
Ricky Rubio - trade away Ball to get another PG that can't shoot, but one that also doesn't play as good defense.
So pay Kemba the max and use the MLE on a D&3 player (Danny Green?) then hope you can get some role players to take min contracts to chase a ring with LeBron.
Maybe it works, but I think they are going to not have enough depth to make it work.
So they will have 4.8mm exception, which may be enough to get a Danny Green in.
Also complicating things: Charlotte can give Kemba the Supermax - 5y220mm. Lakers can give him 4y140mm.
Will the Hornets do that, because you don't want to pay someone like Kemba that much money - he's already 29. However, the Hornets are dumb as ****.
Also complicating things: Charlotte can give Kemba the Supermax - 5y220mm. Lakers can give him 4y140mm.
Will the Hornets do that, because you don't want to pay someone like Kemba that much money - he's already 29. However, the Hornets are dumb as ****.
People vastly overrate the importance of picks.
Good deal for both sides.
Good deal for both sides.
Reports are they are also going to try for Kawhi now, besides Kemba as a target. If they got Kawhi, that is an 2020 NBA title if they stay healthy. The rest of the roster filling out would be kind of irrelevant.
Guitarsoup said:
Agree they have to try to win now since LeBron is at 1440 total NBA games + international.
The problem is you can't win without depth and they currently have:
C: Davis, Mo Wagner
PF: LeBron, Kuzma
SF: Jerm Jones (played 6 games last year)
SG: ----
PG: Issac Bonga (scored 19 points on .152 shooting in 120 minutes last year)
My guess is they were going to go after Klay in addition to this, but that is probably out the window now.
So they probably need to sign some sort of guard. Doesn't have to be a point, if you want to just use Bron as point forward.
Options:
Kemba Walker - most likely target
Kyrie - not sure he would want to play with LeBron again, plus looks like he wants Brooklyn
Jimmy Butler
DAngelo Russell - would he want to come back?
Ricky Rubio - trade away Ball to get another PG that can't shoot, but one that also doesn't play as good defense.
So pay Kemba the max and use the MLE on a D&3 player (Danny Green?) then hope you can get some role players to take min contracts to chase a ring with LeBron.
Maybe it works, but I think they are going to not have enough depth to make it work.
So if you are the Lakers, a prominent franchise who haven't even been to the playoffs in over half a decade... what are you feeling better about rolling the dice on if your end goal is title contender... the scenario you laid out which is risky but has light at the end of the table... or rolling the ball out with Lebron, Lonzo, Kuzma and Ingram again?
I'm taking the risk and am thrilled I get the opportunity it to.
The picks are to bolster Zion. Pelicans essentially have control over the Lakers draft picks (plus their own) for the next 5-7 years when Zion isnt even hitting his prime. This is how you start a dynasty. They have the generational talent and the assets to build around him. Time to execute.
Pels won this trade IMO.
Pels won this trade IMO.
I think Kemba makes more sense.Pumpkinhead said:
Reports are they are also going to try for Kawhi.
PF Davis (who doesn't want to be played at center)
PF Kyle Kuzma
SF/PF LeBron James
SF/PF Kawhi Leonard
and no one else is a strange lineup. But let's see what LeBron the GM works out. All of them are obviously talented, but with Kawhi, you get one more major injury risk (legitimate or otherwise.)
Aggie09Derek said:
People vastly overrate the importance of picks.
Good deal for both sides.
That's simplistic... I think picks are really valuable to most teams because you get control of assets for cheap for a decent period of time.
That said, picks really aren't very valuable to the Lakers... they are pretty much always in their history about winning a lot and winning now... picks typically don't do much for you if that's your mindset.
100% of the time the team that gets the superstar wins the trade. No chance the pelicans won the trade. However, they are setup amazingly for the future and this is the best they could ever do
mAgnoliAg said:
100% of the time the team that gets the superstar wins the trade. No chance the pelicans won the trade. However, they are setup amazingly for the future and this is the best they could ever do
Lol 100%? Is that why the Lakers have been in a half decade playoff slump since their Dwight Howard trade?
How about Brooklyn when they got Pierce and Garnett?
My point is; the Pels won this trade because they already have Zion. The picks give them sooo much headway to maximize his support. It's not like the pels have nothing but picks (if they just had Jrue and landed outside of the #1 spot, I'd agree with you). But 100% is just not right. Pels are sitting prettt and Lakers are walking a fine line that could have them with their bare ass hanging in the wind.
So the pelican will get the Lakers 20th plus picks for a few years. Which means nothing unless you can strike gold with those picks
You are correct and after that not much. Even then they better hit gold with the 4 pick
More than likely will trade it for a player
So they better hit gold with the picks cause ball doesn't nothing for me. Hart is decent
Ags #1 said:
So the pelican will get the Lakers 20th plus picks for a few years. Which means nothing unless you can strike gold with those picks
LeBron James will be 35 next season and their pick compensation extends to 2025...do the math. This is a 2 year window (at best) for LA. Injury, locker room toxicity, or just bad luck could make these picks even more valuable than they'll be.
So just curious, what should have new Orleans done?
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.
#4 pick is a nice haul with a few nice young role players. I realize the list of picks and swaps is long behind it. You need to remember one thing though and I'll put it this way: the Lakers have been 50 plus game winners way more often in my lifetime than they haven't been and that includes these last 6 seasons.M.C. Swag said:
The picks are to bolster Zion. Pelicans essentially have control over the Lakers draft picks (plus their own) for the next 5-7 years when Zion isnt even hitting his prime. This is how you start a dynasty. They have the generational talent and the assets to build around him. Time to execute.
Pels won this trade IMO.
What the Lakers did with this trade to land it is bet on themselves... historically, that bet has been a winner. Lots of risk when you put a bunch of picks in a trade... but I'd be willing to bet it won't go too sideways on them like it did the Nets who didnt have close to the same cache when they made the infamous Celtics deal. The Lakers have time and again through history attracted the best talent to win now... no reason to believe that won't be the case anymore.
You think the Lakers would have done better with a broken ass Andrew Bynum (he played 26 more NBA games after that trade) and Josh McRoberts? Other than a 2nd round pick and the rights to some dude none of us has heard of, that is all they gave up.M.C. Swag said:mAgnoliAg said:
100% of the time the team that gets the superstar wins the trade. No chance the pelicans won the trade. However, they are setup amazingly for the future and this is the best they could ever do
Lol 100%? Is that why the Lakers have been in a half decade playoff slump since their Dwight Howard trade?
Quote:
How about Brooklyn when they got Pierce and Garnett?
Garnett was 37 and Pierce was 36. Neither was a superstar.
I do agree with you that this is a great trade for the Pelicans. I think the Lakers will resemble the Melo Knicks or 2011 Heat that lost to Dallas.
I think this was the best they could do. When you have a player who demands a trade, you just don't have leverage. I still think LA L won the trade, but NOLA did a hell of a job maximizing the situation for themselves.
Ball is very good defender and creates for other players. Pelicans have Jrue to run the point, but with Jrue's injury history, Ball is very nice to have to back up or even play along side him since both are big enough to guard 2s.Ags #1 said:
So they better hit gold with the picks cause ball doesn't nothing for me. Hart is decent
Bad news, old Man Ball has guaranteed that the Lakers will never win a championship again because of making the mistake of trading his kid, so I assume the Lakers will 3 or 4 peat.
https://streamable.com/3m9mk
https://streamable.com/3m9mk
Lol. So he is good enough for the spurs?
He's on the Pelicans and I don't think Pop would want to deal with him or his dad.Ags #1 said:
Lol. So he is good enough for the spurs?
Draft picks Pelicans get:
2019 #4
2021 top-8 protected pick (becomes unprotected in 2022)
2023 Unprotected Pick Swap
2024 Unprotected first in 2024
2025 Unprotected Pick Swap
2019 #4
2021 top-8 protected pick (becomes unprotected in 2022)
2023 Unprotected Pick Swap
2024 Unprotected first in 2024
2025 Unprotected Pick Swap
ATM9000 said:#4 pick is a nice haul with a few nice young role players. I realize the list of picks and swaps is long behind it. You need to remember one thing though and I'll put it this way: the Lakers have been 50 plus game winners way more often in my lifetime than they haven't been and that includes these last 6 seasons.M.C. Swag said:
The picks are to bolster Zion. Pelicans essentially have control over the Lakers draft picks (plus their own) for the next 5-7 years when Zion isnt even hitting his prime. This is how you start a dynasty. They have the generational talent and the assets to build around him. Time to execute.
Pels won this trade IMO.
What the Lakers did with this trade to land it is bet on themselves... historically, that bet has been a winner. Lots of risk when you put a bunch of picks in a trade... but I'd be willing to bet it won't go too sideways on them like it did the Nets who didnt have close to the same cache when they made the infamous Celtics deal. The Lakers have time and again through history attracted the best talent to win now... no reason to believe that won't be the case anymore.
IMO, if the Lakers dont win the title in 2020 they might as well have waited a year and signed AD in free agency and not given up any assets. They are severely handicapped now and run the risk of LBJ and AD walking with nothing to show for it.
M.C. Swag said:ATM9000 said:#4 pick is a nice haul with a few nice young role players. I realize the list of picks and swaps is long behind it. You need to remember one thing though and I'll put it this way: the Lakers have been 50 plus game winners way more often in my lifetime than they haven't been and that includes these last 6 seasons.M.C. Swag said:
The picks are to bolster Zion. Pelicans essentially have control over the Lakers draft picks (plus their own) for the next 5-7 years when Zion isnt even hitting his prime. This is how you start a dynasty. They have the generational talent and the assets to build around him. Time to execute.
Pels won this trade IMO.
What the Lakers did with this trade to land it is bet on themselves... historically, that bet has been a winner. Lots of risk when you put a bunch of picks in a trade... but I'd be willing to bet it won't go too sideways on them like it did the Nets who didnt have close to the same cache when they made the infamous Celtics deal. The Lakers have time and again through history attracted the best talent to win now... no reason to believe that won't be the case anymore.
IMO, if the Lakers dont win the title in 2020 they might as well have waited a year and signed AD in free agency and not given up any assets. They are severely handicapped now and run the risk of LBJ and AD walking with nothing to show for it.
I'd say if they aren't contending in 2020 and 2021 it is fair to question the deal but you have to realize it is basically impossible in the NBA to make a move and be nothing more than ensuring you are a contender for a title. If you already invested a **** load of money to contend (Lebron), it strategically makes no sense to sit on your ass and wait to optimize every asset to the max. You have to make moves and I would fire a GM for waiting around with Lebron in the fold if I owned a team. If they are one of the 4-5 teams that are in the mix these next 2 season, the Lakers 100% made the right moves.
I'd still urge you to look at Lakers history. Yeah the last 6 years have been rough, but they are the one franchise through history who have consistently been able to attract the best to play for them. The odds the 'draft capital' beyond this season is worth much at all is fairly low. If almost any other team made this move, I fully admit I might have a vey different view on the deal. The line items after this season look awesome for the Pelicans, but 90% chance that the headlines that end up being worth a damn for the Pelicans is this seasons pick and the 3 role players only,.. looks like a lot on the surface, but I don't think either side of this trade got fleeced.
From LA's perspective, draft capital is the powder that contending teams need to trade for role players.Quote:
I'd still urge you to look at Lakers history. Yeah the last 6 years have been rough, but they are the one franchise through history who have consistently been able to attract the best to play for them. The odds the 'draft capital' beyond this season is worth much at all is fairly low.
From NOLA's perspective, they get an unprotected first and a pick swap when LBJ is 39 and AD is 31. (Neither are likely to still be with LA). At the very worst, it's a rainy day fund that NOLA can spend for immediate help after Zion had a few years of seasoning.
IMO, NOLA just acquired the best launching platform that any franchise could ask for. Zion + 4th pick + LA's future gives them an asset war chest to allow them to build and tear down multiple teams.
'There's too much damn turmoil': An unsettling vibe surrounds these Rockets
__________________________
Morey on Golic & Wingo:
Reaction when the news is out there that AD will be headed to the Lakers?
Another contender forms. Somehow we've been lost in the shuffle. We were the best team from the all-star break on. We're gonna either add a third star or top mid level player to our core & be better next year. For me, the story is how wide open the West is, we're right there in the mix & probably the favorite going into next year.
You've talked about this obsession with Golden State. Has any of that changed?
The past couple of years, we knew we had to beat Golden State. That's more of a question mark now. Teams that want to win in the West next year will probably have to beat us.
Looking at your team & any kind of moves, how much of that changes with the Davis trade & injuries to Golden State?
Doesn't change much. We're all in. There's a lot of stars available, one in particular we're hoping will choose the Rockets. If they do, we're hoping to add them to James & Chris. If not, we'll spend whatever it takes(mid level). Most teams are struggling to keep their starting five. We're bringing back the starting five that was 29-4 or something down the stretch & add a sixth rotation player. We're excited about where we're at right now.
Friction between James & Chris?
We have two high level competitors whose only goal in life at this point is to win the title. They've accomplished everything else. They'll both be first ballot Hall of Famers. Two competitive superstars at that level, they'll be extremely competitive & how do we get to that next level and when we don't, there will be frustration. I'm frustrated, our top players are frustrated, Mike D'Antoni is frustrated. We want to take the last step & be a champion. I think it's good there's tension. We all want to win.
Has Chris Paul asked to move on?
No, he has not.
Is everyone available?
We're pretty aggressive. We have a history of that. It creates tension because we are aggressive in trades. If we see a trade that'll upgrade the team, we'll do it. We feel like we should be the favorite in the West. That'll create tension when we do that. End of the day, we'll have at least our starting five back, which most teams are scrambling to keep. We'll spend MLE, into the tax, be one of the most expensive rosters like we were last year & this year and we'll be right there.
Where are you, Tilman & Thaddeus on making sure Mike is locked up going forward?
Mike & I are amazed about all the noise. We were on the phone yesterday, two days ago laughing about it. Mike will be in the office today. He'll be our coach next year. We're hoping to work things out for the future right now. If we don't, we'll work it out after next season. We love Mike. He's the favorite of our players. Our top players love playing for him. We'll work it out. We're in a normal negotiation. Doesn't mean it'll create any issues. A little odd how public it's gotten.
Timetable to it? At some point do you table it?
Probably at some point we'll say we'll work it out after next year. For sure that's not in June.
Is Tilman someone you've had to adjust for? Is he all in on Mike since he didn't hire him?
He didn't hire anybody. He recognized he has a great thing here. He's worked to lock us all up into the future. Sometimes they've not gone as quickly. Tilman wants to win. He's spending whatever it takes. He's authorized me to go into the tax for multiple years going forward. We'll spend whatever it takes going forward. We have a new plane, new practice facility. Notion we're not spending is a weird one too. It's been frustrating the narratives around the team. It should & will shift soon to 'Look at what the Rockets did, they added this player, they're now the favorites in the West.'
Tilman has 2 helicopters. If it'll help us win, he'll spend it. He's willing to do whatever it takes. It's been more of us adjusting to him. His aggressive style, his willingness to spend, his questioning & challenging everything. Some of the turmoil is that. We've added one more high level competitor. When you have a lot of high level competitors together, it'll not always be smooth sailing but always pulling toward the same goal.
You said you were obsessed with beating the Warriors. Did you learn anything about beating the Warriors from what the Raptors did or was that because of the players not there for Golden State?
Hat tip to Toronto. I told Masai an amazing job. They've created a great team. It takes having a top team & a little luck. We'll be a top team & then need a little luck. Toronto only advanced on a bouncing ball from Kawhi. You need a little of both. We'll be right there every season while we have our core & then need the ball bouncing our way. Maybe next season the title goes through us instead of the Warriors in the West.
Do you think your style with the currently constructed roster -- high usage from Harden, all these things that were maybe the source of tension -- can be a winning formula?
It can absolutely win. People didn't think the style we played or Golden State played could win until they did it. We have a different style so people focus on it. What matters is how much you win. If you win 60 games, then you can win the title. Everyone who doesn't play our style, there's probably 15-20 teams that lose that way. We're right there.
__________________________
Morey on Golic & Wingo:
Reaction when the news is out there that AD will be headed to the Lakers?
Another contender forms. Somehow we've been lost in the shuffle. We were the best team from the all-star break on. We're gonna either add a third star or top mid level player to our core & be better next year. For me, the story is how wide open the West is, we're right there in the mix & probably the favorite going into next year.
You've talked about this obsession with Golden State. Has any of that changed?
The past couple of years, we knew we had to beat Golden State. That's more of a question mark now. Teams that want to win in the West next year will probably have to beat us.
Looking at your team & any kind of moves, how much of that changes with the Davis trade & injuries to Golden State?
Doesn't change much. We're all in. There's a lot of stars available, one in particular we're hoping will choose the Rockets. If they do, we're hoping to add them to James & Chris. If not, we'll spend whatever it takes(mid level). Most teams are struggling to keep their starting five. We're bringing back the starting five that was 29-4 or something down the stretch & add a sixth rotation player. We're excited about where we're at right now.
Friction between James & Chris?
We have two high level competitors whose only goal in life at this point is to win the title. They've accomplished everything else. They'll both be first ballot Hall of Famers. Two competitive superstars at that level, they'll be extremely competitive & how do we get to that next level and when we don't, there will be frustration. I'm frustrated, our top players are frustrated, Mike D'Antoni is frustrated. We want to take the last step & be a champion. I think it's good there's tension. We all want to win.
Has Chris Paul asked to move on?
No, he has not.
Is everyone available?
We're pretty aggressive. We have a history of that. It creates tension because we are aggressive in trades. If we see a trade that'll upgrade the team, we'll do it. We feel like we should be the favorite in the West. That'll create tension when we do that. End of the day, we'll have at least our starting five back, which most teams are scrambling to keep. We'll spend MLE, into the tax, be one of the most expensive rosters like we were last year & this year and we'll be right there.
Where are you, Tilman & Thaddeus on making sure Mike is locked up going forward?
Mike & I are amazed about all the noise. We were on the phone yesterday, two days ago laughing about it. Mike will be in the office today. He'll be our coach next year. We're hoping to work things out for the future right now. If we don't, we'll work it out after next season. We love Mike. He's the favorite of our players. Our top players love playing for him. We'll work it out. We're in a normal negotiation. Doesn't mean it'll create any issues. A little odd how public it's gotten.
Timetable to it? At some point do you table it?
Probably at some point we'll say we'll work it out after next year. For sure that's not in June.
Is Tilman someone you've had to adjust for? Is he all in on Mike since he didn't hire him?
He didn't hire anybody. He recognized he has a great thing here. He's worked to lock us all up into the future. Sometimes they've not gone as quickly. Tilman wants to win. He's spending whatever it takes. He's authorized me to go into the tax for multiple years going forward. We'll spend whatever it takes going forward. We have a new plane, new practice facility. Notion we're not spending is a weird one too. It's been frustrating the narratives around the team. It should & will shift soon to 'Look at what the Rockets did, they added this player, they're now the favorites in the West.'
Tilman has 2 helicopters. If it'll help us win, he'll spend it. He's willing to do whatever it takes. It's been more of us adjusting to him. His aggressive style, his willingness to spend, his questioning & challenging everything. Some of the turmoil is that. We've added one more high level competitor. When you have a lot of high level competitors together, it'll not always be smooth sailing but always pulling toward the same goal.
You said you were obsessed with beating the Warriors. Did you learn anything about beating the Warriors from what the Raptors did or was that because of the players not there for Golden State?
Hat tip to Toronto. I told Masai an amazing job. They've created a great team. It takes having a top team & a little luck. We'll be a top team & then need a little luck. Toronto only advanced on a bouncing ball from Kawhi. You need a little of both. We'll be right there every season while we have our core & then need the ball bouncing our way. Maybe next season the title goes through us instead of the Warriors in the West.
Do you think your style with the currently constructed roster -- high usage from Harden, all these things that were maybe the source of tension -- can be a winning formula?
It can absolutely win. People didn't think the style we played or Golden State played could win until they did it. We have a different style so people focus on it. What matters is how much you win. If you win 60 games, then you can win the title. Everyone who doesn't play our style, there's probably 15-20 teams that lose that way. We're right there.
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