Yeah only 2 great years except when he lead the team in points, rebounds, blocks, and steals in 1986 and went to the finals. That 60+ win team with Magic, Jabar, & Worthy he smashed with 31 per game wasn't any good either. It is just too bad he forgot how to play from 87 to 93.
Dream Was 20 Times Better Than Tim Duncan
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Last: 7 yr ago by C Loves L
- Missed the playoffs in his prime (two more times post-prime)
- 8 first round exits
- Team won less than 60% 12 times in 18 seasons
- Team won more than 70% 1 time in 18 seasons
If you want Duncan's numbers:
- Never missed the playoffs in his career.
- 3 first round exit (Spurs also exited once when he didn't finish the season due to knee surgery)
- Team won less than 60% of in 0 of 19 seasons
- Team won more than 70% in 12 of 19 seasons
Make no mistake - Hakeem was a great player and I would rather have him to build a team around than most other centers including Bill Russell and Shaq. But Duncan had a better career and that is pretty much unquestionable. Hakeem did put up some gawdy numbers, but they were also put up in a different era and he put up a lot of hollow numbers on sub-50 win teams.
Hakeem's Legacy is 100% 94 and 95. Without those runs, he is Zo Mourning without kidney failure.
I just stumbled across a great stat.
Remember when Hakeem's Rockets got bounced in the playoffs in round one by the Mavs?
****ty ass Hakeem only averaged 38 points, 17 rebounds, 3 blocks while shooting 57% from the field. When you fail to elevate your game in the playoffs and lose in round one is just a black eye on his resume. I mean when Purvis Short is the 2nd best player on the team, how can you not be happy with the organization?
Remember when Hakeem's Rockets got bounced in the playoffs in round one by the Mavs?
****ty ass Hakeem only averaged 38 points, 17 rebounds, 3 blocks while shooting 57% from the field. When you fail to elevate your game in the playoffs and lose in round one is just a black eye on his resume. I mean when Purvis Short is the 2nd best player on the team, how can you not be happy with the organization?
Lol. Hakeem made David Robinson his personal *****.
You bring up an interesting point. It was a different era. When Hakeem played he only played against guys like Jabbar, Robinson, Ewing, Zo, Shaq, Kemp, Malone, Barkley, Mutombo, Divac, Laimbeer, McHale, Parish, & Gilmore. That's all.
Hakeem lost 2/3rd of the games he played against Robinson. Hakeem won the WCF in 95 because he had better players around him and the greatest coaching disparity in NBA history with Rudy T and Bob Hill. Let's not forget Rodman refusing to guard Hakeem and refusing to put his shoes back on and go in the game.Ags #1 said:
Lol. Hakeem made David Robinson his personal *****.
Oh better players around him. Dream couldn't handle him one on one.Guitarsoup said:Hakeem lost 2/3rd of the games he played against Robinson. Hakeem won the WCF in 95 because he had better players around him and the greatest coaching disparity in NBA history with Rudy T and Bob Hill.Ags #1 said:
Lol. Hakeem made David Robinson his personal *****.
Dream averaged 35-13-5-4, 56%
Ole Davy boy 24-11-3-2, 45%
But Hakeem won because he was surrounded by the best, no doubt.
You can't talk about what actually happened in that series because you can't remember it. All you have are box scores and gifs. You have no actual knowledge of the series.
This is like the 4th time you've mentioned age. It doesn't help your argument. I grew up watching sports because of the Rockets and Dream.Guitarsoup said:
You can't talk about what actually happened in that series because you can't remember it. All you have are box scores and gifs. You have no actual knowledge of the series.
One last stat line for you.
Ducan's 2 MVP years
23.8 - 12.4 - 3.4 - 2.4 - 0.8, 50.4% FG, 71.1% FT
Hakeem from age 22 to 35
27.0 - 11.6 - 3.3 - 3.4 - 1.7, 53.0% FG, 71.8% FT
I don't know about you, but those seem pretty even with a slight edge to Dream.
Go to sleep
I mention it because it is true. All you have is boxscores, which is blatantly obvious because it is all you are posting and you aren't even making an attempt to refute my statements.
Let's compare Westbrook's MVP numbers vs Magic or Jordans. Oh ****, Westbrook is the GOAT. Magic and Jordan never came close to a triple-double season.
Bob McAdoo put up 35/14 in his MVP season. He must crush Hakeem and Duncan.
Let's compare Westbrook's MVP numbers vs Magic or Jordans. Oh ****, Westbrook is the GOAT. Magic and Jordan never came close to a triple-double season.
Bob McAdoo put up 35/14 in his MVP season. He must crush Hakeem and Duncan.
I've watched and rewatched more Dream games than 98% of basketball fans. His skill set is unmatched. He could do just about anything at an extremely high level. His game would translate to today's game and I could only imagine how he'd reinvent himself to match today's game. Not only did he lead the world in block shots, but also changed more shots than anyone I've ever seen. If he wasn't surrounded by a bunch of nobodies after Sampson broke down then he'd likely have enough rings to fill a hand.
Saying he missed the playoffs or he didn;t get out of the first round over and over actually tells much less than a box score or a stat line. Duncan only has team accomplishments over dream because he was surrounded by a fantastic supporting case for an unreal amount a time. it is a credit to the Spurs organization, but is doesn;t make Tim better than Dream.
Why do you think players that played with both always pick Dream over Timmy? You said it yourself. Dream "wasn't a good teammate".
Saying he missed the playoffs or he didn;t get out of the first round over and over actually tells much less than a box score or a stat line. Duncan only has team accomplishments over dream because he was surrounded by a fantastic supporting case for an unreal amount a time. it is a credit to the Spurs organization, but is doesn;t make Tim better than Dream.
Why do you think players that played with both always pick Dream over Timmy? You said it yourself. Dream "wasn't a good teammate".
Your argument is a joke.
I agree. It's only my opinion, what the statistics show, and what teammates of both players say. That's all.Chipotlemonger said:
Your argument is a joke.
Robinson vs Hakeem is a close argument. Duncan is so far ahead of Hakeem that only a fool would state otherwise Find me one reputable site or writer that has Hakeem above Duncan. There aren't many.
Yep bob knows nothing about basketball. I'm sure sports writers are much more knowledge than him
The writers and pundits are certainly more objective. Are you really saying you believe Hakeem is 20x better than Duncan or do you admit Horry was being untruthful and imbellishing?
He was just going for shock value to state and take a contrarian position in TV. He made an outlandish claim so folks would talk about the idiocy of it. Everyone knows Duncan was clearly the better player including Horry.
But since you don't believe a player can be biased here is a quite from David Robinson:
"No question he's the greatest power forward ever. It's hard to compare anyone to Tim. He's in a class by himself."
So I'll take a hof player who actually posted and played against both in their peak, over big shot bob who did neither. Especially since players apparently can't be biased or have an agenda.
He was just going for shock value to state and take a contrarian position in TV. He made an outlandish claim so folks would talk about the idiocy of it. Everyone knows Duncan was clearly the better player including Horry.
But since you don't believe a player can be biased here is a quite from David Robinson:
"No question he's the greatest power forward ever. It's hard to compare anyone to Tim. He's in a class by himself."
So I'll take a hof player who actually posted and played against both in their peak, over big shot bob who did neither. Especially since players apparently can't be biased or have an agenda.
He's throwing around inaccurate stats, too. Duncan was a career 70% FT shooter to Hakeem's 71%. He's talking out of his ass for attention. And it worked. We are here talking about it.
Also, keep in mind that Horry was a young player for his first few championships. There's gotta be some nostalgia bias there being on the only relevant non-Chicago Bulls team in that era.
Not to mention it is the team he had the most success on and was the biggest part of the championship run. Plus it's the team that always gets asterisks by their championships due to Jordan's leave, so it makes sense to try to hype them up. He has lots of reasons to be biased towards Hakeem/Houston.
GatorAg03 said:
Robinson vs Hakeem is a close argument. Duncan is so far ahead of Hakeem that only a fool would state otherwise Find me one reputable site or writer that has Hakeem above Duncan. There aren't many.
Well there's the opinion of a guy who played 16 seasons in the NBA and has seven rings. Played four seasons with one player, five with the other, and won two championships with each of them. But yeah let's go looking for the opinions of "reputable" sites or writers as they're more than likely more valid.
If that said player didn't make up bogus statistics and stopped talking in hyperboles, maybe what he said would be considered valid.
I just posted Robinson's opinion that Duncan was the best, so it's other players too and not just writers and basketball pundits. Also, Rob's FT stats are terribly inaccurate. And again do you believe Rob is being truthful and Hakeem is 20x better than Duncan?
Or do you agree he is misinformed/lying?
Or do you agree he is misinformed/lying?
Not to mention all of the teammates that Duncan had over his 19 seasons saying he was the first one in and last one out of the gym.
Just the fact that Duncan was a game changer from the day he was drafted to the day he retired is the only argument there is. You can argue about the "culture" and "supporting cast" which is fair, but how many all time greats can reinvent themselves in the twighlight of their careers, and STILL make an all-NBA team (2014). The thing that has gone unsaid so far is that Duncan is as BIG a part of that culture being in place as Pop is, and Pop has said he would have been fired years ago if not for his superstar's buy in. You think Kawhi is the type of player he is now without Duncan's leadership? His impact will span years after his retirement, due to leadership. Finally let's point out that due to this culture Duncan was 19/19 on playoff appearances including 5 Championships. The stats are there, the awards are there, but that isn't even a third of Duncan's overall impact which is why he is unquestionably the better player and it's not even an argument.
GatorAg03 said:
I just posted Robinson's opinion that Duncan was the best, so it's other players too and not just writers and basketball pundits. Also, Rob's FT stats are terribly inaccurate. And again do you believe Rob is being truthful and Hakeem is 20x better than Duncan?
Or do you agree he is misinformed/lying?
20x better is obviously an embellishment.
Here's a quote from the beloved Mr. Robinson when he said Hakeem is who'd he'd pick first if he was creating a team :
Quote:
As for Hakeem Olajuwon and Shaquille O'Neal and who was tougher to play against?
"Size wise Shaq was just a monster. You couldn't move him. From a skills standpoint though, Hakeem had everything. If I'm starting a team that is probably the guy that I would start with."
https://www.google.com/amp/fansided.com/2015/03/20/david-robinson-interview-takes-hakeem-olajuwon-shaq-magic-michael/amp/
That would be a hell of an argument if the title of this thread was 'Dream Was 20 Times Better Than Shaquille O'neal.
Rob's whole diatribe was obviously an embellishment as even you admit It's really not even close. Duncan is significantly better. Robinson vs Hakeem is a much closer debate.
You can say it as many times as you like, it doesn't make it true. I can at least see an argument for Duncan. Anyone who says Robinson was on Dream's level deserves to be laughed at.GatorAg03 said:
Rob's whole diatribe was obviously an embellishment as even you admit It's really not even close. Duncan is significantly better. Robinson vs Hakeem is a much closer debate.
I said it was much closer. Which is why everyone is laughing at Rob and his idea that Olajuwon was even close to Duncan.
Again, the gap between Duncan and Olajuwon is greater than the gap between Robinson and Hakeem.
Again, the gap between Duncan and Olajuwon is greater than the gap between Robinson and Hakeem.
I like how Robinson clarifies that he's the greatest PF. And I agree with him. He is the GOAT PF. The thing is, Dream was a C.GatorAg03 said:
The writers and pundits are certainly more objective. Are you really saying you believe Hakeem is 20x better than Duncan or do you admit Horry was being untruthful and imbellishing?
He was just going for shock value to state and take a contrarian position in TV. He made an outlandish claim so folks would talk about the idiocy of it. Everyone knows Duncan was clearly the better player including Horry.
But since you don't believe a player can be biased here is a quite from David Robinson:
"No question he's the greatest power forward ever. It's hard to compare anyone to Tim. He's in a class by himself."
So I'll take a hof player who actually posted and played against both in their peak, over big shot bob who did neither. Especially since players apparently can't be biased or have an agenda.
Heres Shaq on his toughest opponent ever. Shaq has came out multiple times how Hakeem did things he could only dream of. When they played on The Dream Team together Shaq had Dream try and teach him certain moves. Lebron, Kobe, among others had Dream come back from Africa in the summer to help train and teach them moves. I can guarantee you will never hear this same story about Robinson or Duncan training Lebron because a mid-range bank shot off the glass is all Duncan could do 
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/22/sports/la-sp-sn-shaquille-oneal-hakeem-olajuwon-20130122
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/22/sports/la-sp-sn-shaquille-oneal-hakeem-olajuwon-20130122
GatorAg03 said:
Rob's whole diatribe was obviously an embellishment as even you admit It's really not even close. Duncan is significantly better. Robinson vs Hakeem is a much closer debate.
The recognized embellishment was the "20x" portion, not his general opinion that Hakeem was better than Duncan.
Enzo The Baker said:
That would be a hell of an argument if the title of this thread was 'Dream Was 20 Times Better Than Shaquille O'neal.
Interesting that that is what you took away from the post. Completely glossed over the fact that the HOF spurs player said Hakeem is who he'd build a team around and not Duncan?
ea1060 said:
because a mid-range bank shot off the glass is all Duncan could do
GTFOOHWTBS.
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