Certainly a strong grudge to hold against someone for an accident.
**** WESTERN CONFERENCE FINALS thread ****
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Last: 7 yr ago by Ag Natural
cobizzle said:
Lol.
I didn't say Pop can't say what he wants to say. I said that, given the circumstances, it makes complete sense that Pop's comments could cause that type of situation for Zaza and his family to be worse.
I guess trying to understand something outside of my own personal bias makes me idiotic.
I though Pop's comparison of ZaZa's action to 'manslaughter' was a bit over dramatic, and Pop had no problem with Bowen undercutting jumpshooters back in the day, but I also understood how frustrated he must have been that day, because he must have known how bad the ankle injury was and that the series was essentially already over. I also think it unlikely Pop's comments had anything to do with nutjobs going on social media making threats to players and their families. They were going to be posting that kind of stuff on social media regardless of what Pop said. Pop could have said he didn't think the play was dirty and those same posts would have occurred. Unfortunately that is just how social media often rolls with a small percentage of people doing that sort of thing.
cobizzle said:
Certainly a strong grudge to hold against someone for an accident.
There's always a bleeding heart who wants to rationalize away somebody else's bad behavior.
We'll never know if Zaza was trying to hurt Leonard, but at minimum we know that Zaza decided to make a reckless play that had an unreasonably high chance of doing so.
It wasn't dramatic, he was merely pointing out that we still charge people lacking intent with crimes if the action that caused the harm was negligent or reckless.
And that Zaza has a history of plays that are at the very best reckless.Deputy Travis Junior said:cobizzle said:
Certainly a strong grudge to hold against someone for an accident.
There's always a bleeding heart who wants to rationalize away somebody else's bad behavior.
We'll never know if Zaza was trying to hurt Leonard, but at minimum we know that Zaza decided to make a reckless play that had an unreasonably high chance of doing so.
When Zaza pulled Kawhi to the ground by his arm last year, it was essentially the same way that Kelly Olynyk separated Love's shoulder - only unlike Olynyk, Zaza yanked Kawhi all the way to the ground. Clearly not reckless - dirty and intentional. When he threw elbows at Patty and West, it was beyond reckless and clearly dirty and intentional.
If Curry had stepped under Kawhi, it wouldn't have had the same reaction because Curry doesn't have a history of playing dirty or causing injuries. Zaza has a long history of playing dirty not just against the Spurs, but against the rest of the NBA so it is harder to give him the benefit of the doubt when he takes that extra step to get under Kawhi's bad ankle when the Warriors are down 25 in the 3rd Quarter.
Everyone except warriors fans should hate the guy. NBA fans have complained about how boring the playoffs have been this year and Zaza denied the NBA, its fans, and the Spurs an intriguing and exciting playoff series. Without Kawhi going down the Spurs would've taken game 1 and most likely split at home. The warriors probably would've won, but it would've taken them 6 or 7 games to do it. Instead we were subjected to by far the most boring series I've ever seen the Spurs be a part of.
grapespda2525 said:
Everyone except warriors fans should hate the guy. NBA fans have complained about how boring the playoffs have been this year and Zaza denied the NBA, its fans, and the Spurs an intriguing and exciting playoff series. Without Kawhi going down the Spurs would've taken game 1 and most likely split at home. The warriors probably would've won, but it would've taken them 6 or 7 games to do it. Instead we were subjected to by far the most boring series I've ever seen the Spurs be a part of.
The injury definitely sucked. I had felt when the playoffs began that only the Spurs or Cavs had a chance vs Warriors.
I agree that Spurs would have won Gsme 1. still think Warriors would have won series because Aldridge playing so mediocre to poor and bad matchups for Gasol etc, so I think the Spurs would have been forced to go small ball more with worse players...but MUCH more competitive.
I don't really disagree with most of this. I've been wanting to watch Spurs-Warriors each of the last 3 seasons. We finally get it, and the Spurs are littered with injuries. It's very frustrating as a fan. I don't hate Zaza though, because I just don't see intent when I watch that play. And while I totally see how the play was reckless, I'm not going to jump right to hating him for what happened here. I understand his history, but also, sometimes **** just happens. When I look at this series, that's what I see.
But no amount of back and forth will change opinions on this issue. People have made up their minds.
But no amount of back and forth will change opinions on this issue. People have made up their minds.
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Omg you got swept. I hate GS and Durant as much as anyone but you clearly were the lesser team. The Spurs of the past have benefitted greatly from players being hurt and you don't get a pass - you never gave one. You had a hell of a run. It is over.
nbbob said:
Omg you got swept. I hate GS and Durant as much as anyone but you clearly were the lesser team. The Spurs of the past have benefitted greatly from players being hurt and you don't get a pass - you never gave one. You had a hell of a run. It is over.
Name a few of these breaks the Spurs have gotten. The only break I can think of is when the Suns had a guy or two suspended for leaving the bench. I can't really think of the Spurs beating a team with major injuries in the Playoffs. We'll be waiting.
Yeah, and we were the lesser team because we were missing our superstar, and the player second in PPG (Parker) for us in these playoffs. Maybe you missed game one and the difference Kawhi makes for this team. So, thanks for your astute assessment.
He's just an obvious troll who probably started supporting the warriors THIS year. The Spurs will always be more respected and have more class than the warriors. The sad reality of the golden state "big 3" is that only one of them is likeable. Draymond is a ****** who never shuts up and Klay just comes off as an elitist *****. Curry is alright tho.
grapespda2525 said:
He's just an obvious troll who probably started supporting the warriors THIS year. The Spurs will always be more respected and have more class than the warriors. The sad reality of the golden state "big 3" is that only one of them is likeable. Draymond is a ****** who never shuts up and Klay just comes off as an elitist *****. Curry is alright tho.
The Warriors essentially came out of 'no where' from where they were 6-7 years ago by drafting and developing themselves Klay, Curry, and Green. And then hiring Steve Kerr.
Yes, Green is unlikable but he is also a 6-7" forward drafted in the 2nd round who became a top-10 player in the NBA, so I also sort of respect his drive/desire/spark whatever you want to call it even though he is an a-hole. And both Klay and Curry also must have had to work very hard to be better than people thought they would be. When Curry was drafted by the Warriors, nobody was thinking that they just drafted a two-time MVP player.
The Warriors also made smart trades like getting a guy like Iguodala a few years ago and then convincing him to come off the bench.
Yes, they got Durant last season which is 'unfair', but the Warriors won an NBA title and 73 games (losing in NBA finals) the two seasons before WITHOUT Durant with a group of players they drafted themselves and built in totally a normal way. Durant does not go to the Warriors if they had not already built something special there (along with some fortunate timing). I give Lots of credit to whoever runs that franchise, to Steve Kerr, and those players themselves.
They are cocky as hell, but fun to watch and have a great system and play hard. again, I get why people don't like them because they are a bully in the block right now, but IMO there is also something to admire of what they pulled off from where they were 6-7 years ago.
It'd be easier to like the Warriors if Draymond wasn't such a dbag and if the owner didn't publicly tell the world they are just smarter than everyone.
They do play a nice game that is fun to watch. But they were lucky to win 2 years ago after several injuries took down the Spurs, Clips and Cavs. They lose last year because Draymond couldn't resist kicking players in the junk. And now this year they are undefeated in large part because the Jazz and Spurs had major injuries.
They do play a nice game that is fun to watch. But they were lucky to win 2 years ago after several injuries took down the Spurs, Clips and Cavs. They lose last year because Draymond couldn't resist kicking players in the junk. And now this year they are undefeated in large part because the Jazz and Spurs had major injuries.
I wish the Spurs had been healthy because it would have been a spectacular series, but the jazz could have assembled thier all time greats team and still not beaten the warriors.
Yeah, way to be a ***** and join a super team that handed your team a WCF loss last year after you choked a 3-1 series lead with RUSS WESTBROOK on it.Good Aggie Hunting said:
KD is finally back in the NBA Finals! Go get your championship ring!
Exactly...its why all that "all time great" talk going on last night between Mark Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy is laughable.demack06 said:Yeah, way to be a ***** and join a super team that handed your team a WCF loss last year after you choked a 3-1 series lead with RUSS WESTBROOK on it.Good Aggie Hunting said:
KD is finally back in the NBA Finals! Go get your championship ring!
so you're dismissing that Leonard already had a gimpy ankle from the Rockets series and the previous tweak earlier in the game?grapespda2525 said:
I don't think anyone around here cares about zaza and his family after what he did in game 1
My take is that Pop was playing mind games with the media and he was looking to have some calls go his way in the next game. I thought he was also fighting for his own player which is what you're supposed to do as a coach.Pumpkinhead said:cobizzle said:
Lol.
I didn't say Pop can't say what he wants to say. I said that, given the circumstances, it makes complete sense that Pop's comments could cause that type of situation for Zaza and his family to be worse.
I guess trying to understand something outside of my own personal bias makes me idiotic.
I though Pop's comparison of ZaZa's action to 'manslaughter' was a bit over dramatic, and Pop had no problem with Bowen undercutting jumpshooters back in the day, but I also understood how frustrated he must have been that day, because he must have known how bad the ankle injury was and that the series was essentially already over. I also think it unlikely Pop's comments had anything to do with nutjobs going on social media making threats to players and their families. They were going to be posting that kind of stuff on social media regardless of what Pop said. Pop could have said he didn't think the play was dirty and those same posts would have occurred. Unfortunately that is just how social media often rolls with a small percentage of people doing that sort of thing.
It was just a series of bad luck that hit the Spurs at the wrong time. Tony goes out with an injury and then Kawhi tweaks his ankle in the Rockets series and again in Game 1 before the Zaza incident. Then David Lee goes out with an injury. The cupboard was empty by Game 4 and Aldridge was a no-show. I don't think Aldridge fits what the Spurs typically look for in a player.Pumpkinhead said:grapespda2525 said:
Everyone except warriors fans should hate the guy. NBA fans have complained about how boring the playoffs have been this year and Zaza denied the NBA, its fans, and the Spurs an intriguing and exciting playoff series. Without Kawhi going down the Spurs would've taken game 1 and most likely split at home. The warriors probably would've won, but it would've taken them 6 or 7 games to do it. Instead we were subjected to by far the most boring series I've ever seen the Spurs be a part of.
The injury definitely sucked. I had felt when the playoffs began that only the Spurs or Cavs had a chance vs Warriors.
I agree that Spurs would have won Gsme 1. still think Warriors would have won series because Aldridge playing so mediocre to poor and bad matchups for Gasol etc, so I think the Spurs would have been forced to go small ball more with worse players...but MUCH more competitive.
At this point, I think the Spurs should retool and go trade for Marc Gasol and let Aldridge go. The Gasol brothers in San Antonio would be huge and perhaps enough beef to get back to the Western Conference finals with a healthy Kawhi.
Get over yourself. OMG.
amercer said:
I wish the Spurs had been healthy because it would have been a spectacular series, but the jazz could have assembled thier all time greats team and still not beaten the warriors.
Agreed. I was looking forward to a really exciting series, not the dud we got.
yeah especially since Mark Jackson couldn't do anything with that team. You guys have to remember that Steve Kerr and Mike Brown are disciples of Coach Pop so it's a testament to how good Pop really is. I'm more of a Poppovich fan than a Spurs fan--he is the best coach in the business and that's why he's coaching the next Olympic basketball team.Pumpkinhead said:grapespda2525 said:
He's just an obvious troll who probably started supporting the warriors THIS year. The Spurs will always be more respected and have more class than the warriors. The sad reality of the golden state "big 3" is that only one of them is likeable. Draymond is a ****** who never shuts up and Klay just comes off as an elitist *****. Curry is alright tho.
The Warriors essentially came out of 'no where' from where they were 6-7 years ago by drafting and developing themselves Klay, Curry, and Green. And then hiring Steve Kerr.
Yes, Green is unlikable but he is also a 6-7" forward drafted in the 2nd round who became a top-10 player in the NBA, so I also sort of respect his drive/desire/spark whatever you want to call it even though he is an a-hole. And both Klay and Curry also must have had to work very hard to be better than people thought they would be. When Curry was drafted by the Warriors, nobody was thinking that they just drafted a two-time MVP player.
The Warriors also made smart trades like getting a guy like Iguodala a few years ago and then convincing him to come off the bench.
Yes, they got Durant last season which is 'unfair', but the Warriors won an NBA title and 73 games (losing in NBA finals) the two seasons before WITHOUT Durant with a group of players they drafted themselves and built in totally a normal way. Durant does not go to the Warriors if they had not already built something special there (along with some fortunate timing). I give Lots of credit to whoever runs that franchise, to Steve Kerr, and those players themselves.
They are cocky as hell, but fun to watch and have a great system and play hard. again, I get why people don't like them because they are a bully in the block right now, but IMO there is also something to admire of what they pulled off from where they were 6-7 years ago.
nbbob said:
Omg you got swept. I hate GS and Durant as much as anyone but you clearly were the lesser team. The Spurs of the past have benefitted greatly from players being hurt and you don't get a pass - you never gave one. You had a hell of a run. It is over.
Says the angry Rocket fan.
What you said is true, but Leonard's ankle was good enough to play on until Zaza knocked him out for good. It would've been gimpy and affected him the rest of the series probably, but the Spurs are a much different team with Kawhi on the court. The warriors only had 50 points in the middle of the 3rd quarter of game 1 with Kawhi playing defense on the perimeter. Durant didn't start to play well until Kawhi was completely out of the picture.
Kawhi's ankle was good enough for him to put up 26 points (on 13 shots), 8 rebounds (4 offensive), 3 assists, 1 steal in 24 minutes while the Spurs had a 25 point lead in Game 1.
Oh he was good, but how effective was he after he injured his ankle after that made 3?Guitarsoup said:
Kawhi's ankle was good enough for him to put up 26 points (on 13 shots), 8 rebounds (4 offensive), 3 assists, 1 steal in 24 minutes while the Spurs had a 25 point lead in Game 1.
IIRC he wasnt the same and you could argue that with him out there, it kind of hurt the Spurs and fueled the Warriors comeback. As a matter of fact after that made 3, he didn't score another field goal nor did he register any rebounds/steals/turnovers. His next 3 points came from the free throw line which was the Zaza foul and a technical foul called on Green.
Of course we're only talking about 2 minutes of game time between the injuries, however right before he hit that 3 where he tweaked his ankle, Curry hit a 3 and started to get his swagger going and the Warriors ended up converting a lot of long distance shots.
It was an unfortunate play that Zaza made, but I think that Kawhi was a lot more hurt than he or the Spurs claimed.
We won't ever know how it would have played out, but the fact remains that Kawhi wasn't the same player that scored 23 points after he tweaked his ankle after that 3 point shot make.
Kawhi returned to the game, played 62 seconds, scored three points and held the Warriors scoreless. Then never played again the rest of the series.Quote:
Oh he was good, but how effective was he after he injured his ankle after that made 3?
So extremely effective?
I hope the Warriors sweep the LeBrons. That may put pressure to change the cap rules to end the super-teams era.
Especially the regular season, but even the playoffs prior to the finals is completely worthless. The super team era sucks. Durant, still in his prime, taking a freaking role spot on the warriors to grab an easy ring is the epitome of it.
Frok said:
I hope the Warriors sweep the LeBrons. That may put pressure to change the cap rules to end the super-teams era.
Ironically the NBA putting more controls in place to prevent 'super teams' from forming may only make it that much harder for other teams to compete with Golden State the next 3-4 years.
Golden State already has their super team in place and all 4 of their All-Stars are still in their twenties. So they would probably love for any new rules that are oriented to make it harder for a Superstar player to leave his current team, any rules that make it harder for other teams to challenge GSW in roster talent..
From what I have read, GSW ownership is totally fine paying whatever luxury tax is necessary to keep their guys, because the Warriors are so popular right now that they are rolling in cash coming in and can afford the huge tax hits.
GSW will not have an option if the NBA would move to a hard cap. Curry is making peanuts due to a low draft pick. Go ahead and say no going over the cap period. That will prevent super teams including GSW.
mporterco07 said:
GSW will not have an option if the NBA would move to a hard cap. Curry is making peanuts due to a low draft pick. Go ahead and say no going over the cap period. That will prevent super teams including GSW.
The current CBA covers through 2023. No hard cap for a while.
Yeah, I was just stating the only way to really create parity.
They will never go to a truly hard cap. What's the incentive for either side? The players like making virtually unlimited amounts of money. And the owners are either paying the tax to go over or receiving the tax for not. It's pretty much a win-win-win all around for them. The only thing that suffers is the competitive balance.. and that doesn't show up on the balance sheet.
GSW got incredibly lucky. Curry didn't become a superstar until after his second deal was signed. He signed about about half of what Kawhi signed for in his second deal. He will get his money soon though and the tax implications will be pretty large. It will be interesting to see how much these guys like paying $100 million in tax to the other owners.
GSW got incredibly lucky. Curry didn't become a superstar until after his second deal was signed. He signed about about half of what Kawhi signed for in his second deal. He will get his money soon though and the tax implications will be pretty large. It will be interesting to see how much these guys like paying $100 million in tax to the other owners.