Jordan also played the majority of his career with great players that could score like Pippen, Grant and Kukoc as well as elite shooters such as Kerr.

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Jordan also played the majority of his career with great players that could score like Pippen, Grant and Kukoc as well as elite shooters such as Kerr.

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Check out Jordan's series against the Celtics in '86. He had nobody and the stats he put up make LeBron's finals stats look pedestrian in comparison.

That's the first time I've heard kukoc described as great. Remember when Jordan and Pippen shut him down in the '92 Olympic games? They knew he was worthless and were mad that the Bulls signed him before resigning Pippen. That was great.

Even Pippen turned out to be overrated when he was on the blazers.

Jordan made all of his teammates look like Allstars. LeBron does the same to a much lesser degree.

Pippen put up 22p/9r/6a/3s while shooting .491 in 94 on a 55 win Bulls team without Jordan. He was also had the most votes for a non-Center for Defensive Player of the Year. Hakeem edged out Robinson that year. Pippen was 3rd in the MVP vote above people like Shaq, Kemp, Payton, Malone, and reigning MVP Barkley.

Kukoc averaged 17 points per 36 minutes in his career with the Bulls.

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Jordan also played the majority of his career with great players that could score like Pippen, Grant and Kukoc as well as elite shooters such as Kerr.

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Check out Jordan's series against the Celtics in '86. He had nobody and the stats he put up make LeBron's finals stats look pedestrian in comparison.

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How many games did Jordan win?

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Jordan also played the majority of his career with great players that could score like Pippen, Grant and Kukoc as well as elite shooters such as Kerr.

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Check out Jordan's series against the Celtics in '86. He had nobody and the stats he put up make LeBron's finals stats look pedestrian in comparison.

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How many games did Jordan win?

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What does that have anything to do with the post you were responding to?

Everything

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Everything

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huh, we must be reading two entirely different posts.

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Don't the great players score in spite of attracting the other team's best defender? Michael Jordan averaged 33.4 ppg on 48.7% shooting over his entire career in the playoffs. And he did it while taking 10 fewer shots per game. James had big numbers, but he did so because, for better or worse, he never let a teammate touch the ball.

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Lebron didn't just attract the best defender, the Warriors barely even pretended to cover anyone else.

Early in their respective careers, Jordan was getting bounced in the first round while Lebron was dragging the Cavs to deep runs. That means that in their first three playoff years when they were putting up similarly poor efficiency with similarly poor supporting casts, Jordan only played 10 games while Lebron played 46 games. That has a major impact on their respective career stats. According to the internet, great players put up great, efficient stats and win playoff series regardless of their supporting casts. OK, explain to me why Jordan is better when he kept getting bounced and Lebron didn't. At this point in their respective careers, Jordan had three rings to Lebron's two.

The second is that Lebron has averaged 28-9-7 on 47.3% shooting over his career and he still has a few years left in his prime. Jordan (33-6-6) never had a post-prime stat decline, since he retired again for a few years at 34 and then didn't make it back to the playoffs as a Wizard. Can you imagine the flack Lebron would get if he retired this year like Jordan did? What if he did it again in five years? Everyone would blast him for being soft.

One thing not many people have mentioned is that Lebron has played in more games than anyone else in the league over the last five years by a huge margin. Five consecutive trips to the finals plus the Olympics. That was probably a factor.

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Don't the great players score in spite of attracting the other team's best defender? Michael Jordan averaged 33.4 ppg on 48.7% shooting over his entire career in the playoffs. And he did it while taking 10 fewer shots per game. James had big numbers, but he did so because, for better or worse, he never let a teammate touch the ball.

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Lebron didn't just attract the best defender, the Warriors barely even pretended to cover anyone else.

Early in their respective careers, Jordan was getting bounced in the first round while Lebron was dragging the Cavs to deep runs. That means that in their first three playoff years when they were putting up similarly poor efficiency with similarly poor supporting casts, Jordan only played 10 games while Lebron played 46 games. That has a major impact on their respective career stats. According to the internet, great players put up great, efficient stats and win playoff series regardless of their supporting casts. OK, explain to me why Jordan is better when he kept getting bounced and Lebron didn't. At this point in their respective careers, Jordan had three rings to Lebron's two.

The second is that Lebron has averaged 28-9-7 on 47.3% shooting over his career and he still has a few years left in his prime. Jordan (33-6-6) never had a post-prime stat decline, since he retired again for a few years at 34 and then didn't make it back to the playoffs as a Wizard. Can you imagine the flack Lebron would get if he retired this year like Jordan did? What if he did it again in five years? Everyone would blast him for being soft.

One thing not many people have mentioned is that Lebron has played in more games than anyone else in the league over the last five years by a huge margin. Five consecutive trips to the finals plus the Olympics. That was probably a factor.

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Your first point is hardly true. Lebron didn't even start getting doubled until after game 3, and while Iggy was covering him, he was never doubled. Most of the Warriors game plan for the first 3 games was to make sure no one but lebron was scoring.

I can tell you exactly why Jordan got bounced and LeBron didn't. Comparing lebrons ability to get through the east of the aughts to Jordan's difficulties with the east of the 80's is criminal.

Also, unless LeBron had some significant injury burden we don't know about, that fatigue argument is entirely overused. LeBron has better court vision than MJ, but there is no doubt who the superior scorer was.

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LeBron has better court vision than MJ, but there is no doubt who the superior scorer was.

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MJ Career playoff stats:

12.2 FG, 25.1 FGA 48.7% FG, 33.2% 3pt, 83%FT, 33.4PPG 6.4 RBG, 5.7APG

LeBron career playoff stats:

9.8 FG 20.8 FGA, 47.3%FG, 31.8% 3pt, 75.2% FT, 28.2PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.7 APG

These are pretty close stats overall. Jordan took more shots, made a slightly higher % of his shots, and was markedly better from the FT line.

Lebron has had some of the most amazing playoff performances ever. I don't think it's quite as easy as saying "no doubt." When you had as many pieces as Jordan did for such a long period of his career, it makes it a lot easier to score, more opportunities at open shots, etc. Lebron has enjoyed that type of setup for exactly 4 of his playoff runs, all with the Heat. It's no surprise, his FG% in the playoffs in his 4 years in Miami was 50.3% with 34.9% from the 3 point line.

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I can tell you exactly why Jordan got bounced and LeBron didn't. Comparing lebrons ability to get through the east of the aughts to Jordan's difficulties with the east of the 80's is criminal.

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No kidding. Most of the teams Cleveland beat had records between 39-43 and 43-39. Hardly a bunch of juggernauts. In 5 years, I think Cleveland only beat one team with more than 47 wins.

05-06
Beat WSH 42-40

06-07
Beat WSH 41-41
Beat NETS 41-41
Beat DET 53-29

07-08
Beat WSH 43-39

08-09
Beat DET 39-43
Beat ATL 47-35

09-10
Beat CHI 41-41

Other than the Pistons in 2007, the average record of the 7 teams Cleveland beat was 42-40.

I guess Jordan should have managed a few more regular season wins so that he wasn't the 8 seed every year. Lebron did.


My real point here is that there are way too many variables in play to resort to uselessly oversimplified arguments like "a great player would never..." Odds are, the great player of the past that you're thinking about did struggle in the exact same way as the guy you're talking about now, but 20-30 years and far less coverage and discussion at the time makes it less available to your memory.