Top 10 Defenders of all time

3,130 Views | 33 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by Guitarsoup
Hickory High
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AG
Similar to another highly controversial thread happening right now, I ran across this picture recently:



What do you all think? Mine would be:
Hakeem
Scottie Pippen
Dennis Rodman
Mutumbo
Gary Payton
Ben Wallace
Michael Jordan
Joe Dumars
Bill Russell
Ron Artest

The first three are in the proper order, but the next 7 places are relatively interchangeable.
Bunbury
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Seems surprising that only 1 of those (albeit the #1), played before 1985ish. Surely defense is not some new idea of the past 30 years.
oldschoolCrocker10
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David Robinson? Alonzo Mourning? Wilt? Kareem? Look up Bobby Jones too...

Artest - meh
Dumars - meh

But this is the NBA, defense doesn't matter.
Hickory High
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quote:
David Robinson? Alonzo Mourning? Wilt? Kareem? Look up Bobby Jones too...

Artest - meh
Dumars - meh

But this is the NBA, defense doesn't matter.
It did in the 80s and 90s
Obi Wan Ginobili
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hickory, all personal bias aside, how can you in good faith not have duncan in the top 10? not only does he have the stats to back him up, he still, to this day, is such a good defender that opposing offenses have to move around him at all times because they can't go through him.

if spurs fans can give the likes of hakeem and dirk credit, surely duncan can get his.
Hickory High
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I've just never seen Duncan as this incredible defender. I'm probably wrong, but this list was just off the top of my head.
Head Ninja In Charge
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Michael Jordan is not the 2nd greatest defensive player ever. That, I know.
Head Ninja In Charge
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Duncan is a top 10 defender, but I still put Kevin Garnett above him. Pip should be higher.
awinlonghorn
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can't believe the following are not getting any love:

Dirk, Steve Nash, Tony Parker, James Harden, Chris Webber,
Houston Summit
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No James Harden. List is ****
coastalAg
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Lebron as a top 10 defender of all-time? Theres no way
Sher Thing
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Duncan is and has always been 100x the defender than Garnett. Not even close. Duncan could never jump as high or send it into the 20th row but Duncan was/is an exceptional positional defender and was an excellent p&r defender during his younger days.

Could also make a case for Bruce Bowen.
Head Ninja In Charge
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quote:
Duncan is and has always been 100x the defender than Garnett. Not even close.

Stop it.
Houston Summit
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quote:
Duncan is and has always been 100x the defender than Garnett. Not even close.

Duncan may be better than Garnett, but the exaggeration in this comment is very stupid

quote:
Could also make a case for Bruce Bowen.

LOLOLOLOL
Sher Thing
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Duncan is #2 all time in Career Defensive Win Shares - Garnett #7
Duncan is #7 all time in Career Defensive Box Plus/Minus - Garnett #19
Duncan is #2 all time in Career Overall Defensive Rating - Garnett #23
Duncan is #6 all time in Career Defensive Rebounding % - Garnett #10
Duncan is #19 all time in Career Defensive Block % - Garnett #66

Duncan leads him in every advanced defensive stat there is. These stats aren't perfect like a lot of other stats but it's glaring.


Sher Thing
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quote:
quote:
Duncan is and has always been 100x the defender than Garnett. Not even close.

Duncan may be better than Garnett, but the exaggeration in this comment is very stupid

quote:
Could also make a case for Bruce Bowen.

LOLOLOLOL
If you ask me who I would choose to put on an island with the game on the line out on the perimeter I would choose Bruce Bowen over Lebron James 100 out of 100 times. Hate him or love him, Bruce was one of the best perimeter defenders to ever play. He doesn't deserve to be Top 10 all-time and that's not what I was trying to get at but he was just as good a perimeter defender in his prime than any of those other guys.
MookieBlaylock
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It's basketball there is no such thing as a great defender best of mediocrity is the title
Token
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quote:
It's basketball there is no such thing as a great defender best of mediocrity is the title
ive missed mookie
Craigy
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Elston Turner Dennis Rodman top tier next tier Sydney Moncrief Bill Hanzlik
shano0603
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Vernon Maxwell should get an honorable mention. Only player to be able to slow down Jordan time and time again.
birdman
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Did I miss Michael Cooper? If a top defender list doesn't have him on it, it's wrong.
W
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Sidney Moncrief is a good choice.

-----

it's tough to lump the tall guys 6'10" in with the guards 6'4" --- obviously it's easier to block shots, rebound, and do other defensive things when you're taller. The centers are also not trying to play man defense against guys as quick as guards like Kobe, MJ, et al
Guitarsoup
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quote:
Vernon Maxwell should get an honorable mention. Only player to be able to slow down Jordan time and time again.
Alvin Robertson was light years better than Max. He did a great job against Jordan, as did Gerald Wilkins.

Alvin didn't have the longevity as most of those guys, but he definitely deserves some mention. Also, he is currently still defending. Or is it defendant? He is still awaiting trail for human trafficking for sexual purposes. So there is that.
Ulrich
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IMO, there should be two lists, one for posts and one for perimeter players. I'm not going to try to rate the old timers, but here are my comments on those who played in the last 15 years. I weight team defense heavily, especially for posts, but one-on-one defense is also important. Being a great defender every night (not only on demand) is big. Longevity is a factor, at least in the sense that I want to see several years of great defense ideally spread across more than one group of starters.

Duncan is easily the best help defender and probably the best one-on-one defender. He's got the individual and team stats to prove his case. If you need someone around whom to build your defense, this is the guy. Garnett was very good, but still second to Duncan. Aside from Garnett and Duncan, the only other guy I would nominate as top ten all-time defender is Ben Wallace. Other top defensive posts recently are Marc Gasol, Joachim Noah, Dwight Howard, and Marcus Camby. Ibaka needs to develop his one-on-one defense some, rebound better, and then do all that for several years.

On the perimeter, Bowen had the best feet of any defender I've seen (both in terms of moving them effectively and crane-kicking Wally Sczerbiak). Battier, Artest, and Allen are very good, but I'm not sure they are truly pantheon-level defenders. Non-Spurs fans won't like this, but Manu Ginobili holds the second highest DRtg ever among perimeter players. His off-the-charts BBIQ puts him in the elite status even if you won't hear the idiots on ESPN talking about his defense. Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, and Draymond Green can be all-timers if they keep playing at this level for a few years.

There are a lot of really good players who don't crack my lists because they either expend so much effort on offense that they can't bring the fanatical effort required for elite defense every night (Lebron, Kobe Bryant) or they are overrated based on name recognition or flashy stats at the expense of playing good team defense (Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo). Any of those guys I mentioned are insanely good at times, but not consistently enough to be an all-timer.
PatAg
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Not really top 10 worthy, but Shawn Marion is probably higher up that list than most would think.
t - cam
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Lot of defensive specialists being hyped by this board. There is no way I want Bruce Bowen to guard the last possession over LeBron.

Ulrich
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Debatable, but if you have to pick the defense of one player over another for an entire season, it's easily Bowen. Defensive specialists dedicate the vast majority of their energy to defense, while someone like Lebron is only turning it up in specific situations. Lebron is a top three perimeter defender in the league for 4 minutes at a time, but not for whole games and seasons. It's not really Lebron's fault, but I can't consider someone a top ten all-time defender when he's not playing elite defense every night and every play. You can't ignore a lack of consistency and all-out effort when rating defenders, because those things are the essence of great defense.

One other thing... a lot of people cite Lebron's versatility, but his post defense is overrated. The Spurs had a lot of success running 4-down every time Lebron was matched up with Diaw, and as crafty as Diaw is he's not exactly 2003 Tim Duncan.
BBDP
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John Stockton without a mention? You people are racist.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/stl_career.html
oldschoolCrocker10
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quote:
John Stockton without a mention? You people are racist.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/stl_career.html
Jason Kidd too!
Guitarsoup
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Lots of steals doesn't necessarily mean you are a great defender. Iverson had lots of steals. Lead the league a few times.
Head Ninja In Charge
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quote:
Debatable, but if you have to pick the defense of one player over another for an entire season, it's easily Bowen.

So essentially what you're saying is that Bowen's peak is better than any other perimeter player's peak on defense?
BBDP
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Stockton was a very good defender.... So was Jason K.
Ulrich
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Why should I respond to a comment that ignores everything I've said on this thread?
Scientific
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LeBron an All time defender?

Mad Max was a damn good defender. Always felt Iverson's defense was also underrated. Led the league in steals 3 seasons in a row, and was always at the top of the list.
Guitarsoup
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Iverson was not a good defender. That's part of why he never made a single all-defense team. He had a lot of steals because he would leave his man to patrol the passing lanes or let his man go by to try to poke it out from behind.
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