I'd still take Kobe if I needed a clutch shot. Though if we talking all time I'm going with Mr Clutch himself - Laker great Jerry West.

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I'd still take Kobe if I needed a clutch shot.

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Unbelievable. You've seen the stat that proves beyond doubt that Lebron is much more likely to make the gamewinner and you still go with Kobe. That's homerism.


Actually, one thing I'd really like to see is a comparison of how often each player's team got a quality shot and how often they won/went to overtime when they had the last possession down 1-3 points. After all, the whole point is who wins, not who makes the shot.

MJ never quit on his team in the playoffs because he had already decided to sign with another team in the offseason.

Lebron all day over Kobe. I seem to remember Kobe air balling a 3 in the clutch too.

I'm just sad for Ulrich that he never got to see a prime Jordan play.

I think it's more fair to compare Bron to Magic based on their skillsets.

I've been meaning to record some of those old NBATV Classic games with Jordan/Bird/Magic/etc.

For those who grew up some or all of the 80s, NBA TV had a pretty good series called NB80s.

It was a nice 5 part series with each show covering 2 years.

While certainly the Bird Celtics/Magic Lakers were a good part of the series, as was the emergence of MJ, it was good because it discussed some of the other great events and players of the era, such as Bernard King, Denver Nugget's fastbreak team, and other stuff.

MJ fans- enjoy

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/Michael-Jordan/michael-jordan-not-left-building

Cinnamon Rolls- remember that.

There is at least one thing Kobe is on the verge of doing that MJ and LJ never came close to accomplishing: lead a team to a sub .500 record with a supporting cast that includes a Hall of Fame PG, the most coveted Center in the NBA, a multiple time all NBA power forward, and the largest payroll in the league.

Saying ANYONE is better than Michael Jordan is saying that ANYONE is better than Babe Ruth.

You just don't do it. Michael Jordan is the Elvis Presley of Hoops. The King of Basketball.

Period.

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Jordan's most iconic play was a blatant push off

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What play are you talking about? Don't say the Russell/Jazz last second shot. That was money but far from his most iconic play.

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FYI, in the One on One with Ahmad Rashad that showed tonight, MJ called that shot "the very defining moment of what my career was in Chicago".

I'll take MJ over LJ but I would strongly consider Magic over MJ. We've really not seen anything like Magic in the history of the NBA. A 6'9" PG who dish, shoot, post up, rebound, etc. He also retired at 32 but had plenty of tread left on his tires.

Magic is the only player I've ever seen who could completely dominate a game without scoring a point.

Jordan.
Kobe.
LeBron.

Any other list is just wrong. Sorry. If you want to win championships, that is the order you would draft them.

Jordan is #1 in the history of the game. No question, no doubt. People who are putting anyone above MJ either are ignorant as to what MJ was all about, or are biased and/or just being contrarians.

I don't have a problem with those putting Magic Johnson ahead of Michael.

5 championships and 9 trips to the finals is pretty impressive, especially when you consider the other great players & teams they lost to.

Lost to one of the greatest teams of all time, 1982-83 76ers with Moses and Dr. J.

In 83-84, they lost to Larry and the Celtics.
Later on the Lakers lost to Isiah and the Pistons (the same teams going through the Bulls).
Then they lost to the great MJ to start the Bulls run.

I just wish MJ and the Bulls had other great teams & players to compete against because there was no great rival to them once they finally broke through the Pistons. Had he not retired at 31 because of the HIV virus (about the same age MJ returned from baseball) it could have been more championships. Of course, that is like saying MJ would have won 8 titles had he not retired, and both are unknown.

*I would take MJ, but I don't think those choosing Magic are being outrageous or contrarian.

Bose Ikard said:

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LJ has not yet matched the greatness of MJ's career, and probably will not. But he does still have a chance. Without looking at the numbers, I think he would have to keep producing like this for 4 or 5 more years and win at least two, probably three more rings.

That being said, I think Lebron, despite some of his bad habits, plays (usually, with a few glaring exceptions) a better brand of basketball than MJ did.

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I think we've pretty much got there now.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30070633/lebron-james-vs-michael-jordan-why-goat-debate-different-now

Queen James plays in an era where teams don't play defense. Weak-ass fouls are called on simple hand checks.

Compare that to when Michael played.

Jordan's drive, determination, and fire are what make him what Queen will never be.

Queen picks the players on her team.
Queen whines about obvious fouls against her.
Queen walks out when she loses.
Queen is a petulant little diva - if it doesn't go her way, she takes her ball and goes home.

She'll never hold Jordan's jock.

watty said:

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Jordan.
Kobe.
LeBron.

Any other list is just wrong. Sorry. If you want to win championships, that is the order you would draft them.

Jordan is #1 in the history of the game. No question, no doubt. People who are putting anyone above MJ either are ignorant as to what MJ was all about, or are biased and/or just being contrarians.

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LeBron is better than Kobe. Sorry, it's not even a debate frankly anymore. (See you posted 7 years ago)

zooguy96 said:

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Queen James plays in an era where teams don't play defense. Weak-ass fouls are called on simple hand checks.

Compare that to when Michael played.

Jordan's drive, determination, and fire are what make him what Queen will never be.

Queen picks the players on her team.
Queen whines about obvious fouls against her.
Queen walks out when she loses.
Queen is a petulant little diva - if it doesn't go her way, she takes her ball and goes home.

She'll never hold Jordan's jock.

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Oh look... a 90's nuthugger who pictures 90's defense and physical play to be just short of a prison beating.

watty said:

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Jordan.
Kobe.
LeBron.

Any other list is just wrong. Sorry. If you want to win championships, that is the order you would draft them.

Jordan is #1 in the history of the game. No question, no doubt. People who are putting anyone above MJ either are ignorant as to what MJ was all about, or are biased and/or just being contrarians.

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I was going to ask what drugs you're on but now I see this is from 2013

LeBRON wins where ever he goes and his "prime" seems to be everlasting

If you are picking a player to start your franchise, Kobe isn't top 5. He did win, but he also had the rape thing he paid to go away, he broke up him and Shaq, was pretty selfish, refused to take a shot in the second half of a game 7 to prove how important he was. Lot of guys that were great players and also great team players and great lockerroom guys. Kobe ain't it.

I am a huge Laker fan and I watched Kobe's entire career very closely. I very much agree with this assessment. There are even more things you could list.

Kobe likely got more out of his talent and worked as hard as any player in the history of the league. He might be the greatest bad shot maker ever. But that is where it ends. I would take Wilt, Magic, Shaq, and LeBron over Kobe without thinking twice.

zooguy96 said:

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Queen James plays in an era where teams don't play defense. Weak-ass fouls are called on simple hand checks.

Compare that to when Michael played.

Jordan's drive, determination, and fire are what make him what Queen will never be.

Queen picks the players on her team.
Queen whines about obvious fouls against her.
Queen walks out when she loses.
Queen is a petulant little diva - if it doesn't go her way, she takes her ball and goes home.

She'll never hold Jordan's jock.

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This is a silly, tired talking point that can easily be dismissed. "Players from the 90s would foul out of the game in the 1st quarter if they played today"

See what I did there?

The truth is, both generations would adjust to the way the game is called (fouls) so that idea is bogus

Heres one Im not sure that's ever been talked about. Jordan didn't shoot very many 3s. In todays game, even centers shoot and make lots of 3s. Jordan made 7 of 12 three-pointers in a game against Golden State (career high). This was a regular season game. Outside of that, he never took more than 8.

Of the 581 total regular-season 3s Jordan sank over his long career, 238 of them came in the little more than two seasons he played with the short line (before it changed) he averaged .39 three-pointers a game and 1.3 a game with the shorter 3 point line

Jordan played with what now looks like a grandpa basketball era.

NickNaylor said:

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If you are picking a player to start your franchise, Kobe isn't top 5. He did win, but he also had the rape thing he paid to go away, he broke up him and Shaq, was pretty selfish, refused to take a shot in the second half of a game 7 to prove how important he was. Lot of guys that were great players and also great team players and great lockerroom guys. Kobe ain't it.

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What the hell does "the rape thing" have to do with him being a top five player ever?

McDadeTXAggie said:

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zooguy96 said:

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Queen James plays in an era where teams don't play defense. Weak-ass fouls are called on simple hand checks.

Compare that to when Michael played.

Jordan's drive, determination, and fire are what make him what Queen will never be.

Queen picks the players on her team.
Queen whines about obvious fouls against her.
Queen walks out when she loses.
Queen is a petulant little diva - if it doesn't go her way, she takes her ball and goes home.

She'll never hold Jordan's jock.

---

This is a silly, tired talking point that can easily be dismissed. "Players from the 90s would foul out of the game in the 1st quarter if they played today"

See what I did there?

The truth is, both generations would adjust to the way the game is called (fouls) so that idea is bogus

Heres one Im not sure that's ever been talked about. Jordan didn't shoot very many 3s. In todays game, even centers shoot and make lots of 3s. Jordan made 7 of 12 three-pointers in a game against Golden State (career high). This was a regular season game. Outside of that, he never took more than 8.

Of the 581 total regular-season 3s Jordan sank over his long career, 238 of them came in the little more than two seasons he played with the short line (before it changed) he averaged .39 three-pointers a game and 1.3 a game with the shorter 3 point line

Jordan played with what now looks like a grandpa basketball era.

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Freedom of movement. The game isn't the same anymore, but I don't doubt MJ would still find a way to win. His footwork and basketball mind was phenomenal and that is translatable to any era. He wouldn't have to shoot too many 3's anyway because he'd find his way to the free throw line a la Harden.

Just imagine a player that you'd get when you combine Karl Malone and John Stockton in Karl Malone's body with the way they dominated the league with assists, defense, shooting prowess, and strength. This is Lebron and he's still in superb shape at 35 years old. He might not be the consensus all time best player, but you can certainly entertain the conversation based on his body of work.

Jordan would average 50 with these rules

Lebron is battling for 2nd place

It's hard to imagine Jordan being the best in the world in a league that features NBA Champion Alex Caruso.

BR. Period.

zooguy96 said:

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Queen James plays in an era where teams don't play defense. Weak-ass fouls are called on simple hand checks.

Compare that to when Michael played.

Jordan's drive, determination, and fire are what make him what Queen will never be.

Queen picks the players on her team.
Queen whines about obvious fouls against her.
Queen walks out when she loses.
Queen is a petulant little diva - if it doesn't go her way, she takes her ball and goes home.

She'll never hold Jordan's jock.

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lol dumb. Like 270lb Lebron James would turn into goo because of a hand check.

And people casually forget that 80/90s defenses weren't allowed to play zone...or literally double team any other player that didn't have the ball (ie - denying a player like jordan off ball from getting possession, which is what any modern nba team would do the second a player like rodman got it).

Lebron's drive, determination, and fire are what brought him out of poverty in a single parent household to become 1 of the most successful people on the planet.

How does everyone feel about Jordan and the bulls going up against the Spurs or Warriors? Would the Bulls have been able to beat them every time? Or would facing them would that have caused a blemish on the perfect finals record?

MookieBlaylock said:

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Jordan would average 50 with these rules

Lebron is battling for 2nd place

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Jordan would have to completely change the way he played defense or he would be fouled out of each game before halftime.

You have to run it both ways

No he wouldnt have to even try to be the best defender bc no one plays defense anymore