Congrats. You named one game out of six Finals appearances. I'm too lazy to go back and fact check that one, so I'll let you have it. Six Finals MVP's. If Miami wins this series, LeBron may not win MVP. If he does, he'll still be five shy of the greatest player ever.

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Congrats. You named one game out of six Finals appearances.

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Well... you asked dude.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove... nobody in their right mind thinks Lebron is better than MJ.

Great players 'get it' in the NBA. They understand that you have to have great support to achieve multiple championships and whatnot. That's why I think it's ridiculous to fault Lebron for bolting to Miami. And the ideas that he's a selfish player or his team in Cleveland was adequate and whatnot are downright delusional.

There's a lot to be said for the differences from then to now. Overall athleticism is now held at a pretty extreme premium, and IMO guys come into the league with worse overall shooting ability, having always just dominated with athleticism. I'd be kind of curious to see the numbers on that a few years in each direction after the one and done rule was put in place.

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I'm not sure what you are trying to prove... nobody in their right mind thinks Lebron is better than MJ.

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Exactly, but there are plenty of people that are not in their right minds. Here and other places.

Glad this debate is finally over

So I went back to check that 1992 Game 6 info. You're right in that it was Pippen & 4 bench players that started the run to cut the Bulls deficit, but it was common for Jordan to start the 4th quarter on the bench. MJ came off the bench and finished off the run to take the lead for good. He ended up with 33 points in the game and was the leading scorer. After Jordan returned in the 4th, the Blazers scored 6 points the rest of the way and Michael scored 6 of the Bulls last 8 points to seal the title. He averaged 35.8 points per game in that series.

Not really sure that qualifies as Scottie taking over the game to win one for the Bulls.

How doesn't it? The Bulls were down like 15 points in an important game in the series and Scottie and the bench brought them back at a critical point in the game absent MJ. I'd say that qualifies as Pippen taking over and being the key player in that particular game.

Just because you are a Chicago guy and I know Chicago guys get offended if MJ's ween isn't sucked at all moments, I'll once again state MJ is the greatest player of all time, but his teams and teammates constantly get sold way short for their cotributions to his success. Pippen was easily a top 10 player in the league and probably as high as a top 5 player in the league during the Bulls run and they really had a brilliantly built team of role players. Once again, my point is nobody does it alone in the NBA... including Jordan.

[This message has been edited by ATM9000 (edited 6/6/2011 10:04a).]

Because Jordan still had 33 points in the game and was the guy who finished off the run and lead his team to victory down the stretch. Scottie was a great player and was huge in game 6. But it's not like MJ pulled a disappearing act in the 4th quarter like James did.

No crap Jordan didn't "do it alone". But the 90s Bulls titles were Jordan's titles. The greatest players off all time had their names pinned to championships. Finals MVP gauges that. 80s Celtics were Bird's titles even though he had a good supporting cast. 80s Lakers titles were Magic's titles, even though he had a good supporting cast.

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But it's not like MJ pulled a disappearing act in the 4th quarter like James did.

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I can tell your a novice fan on this statement. James directly contributed to something like half the Heat's 4th quarters points last night, played tremendous defense the entire 4th quarter last night including leading a shutout of the Mavs out in the last minute and a half. He might not have put the ball in the hole much, but he hardly disappeared.

LOL. I guess I need to type slower for you to understand. James disappeared on the offensive end and became a one dimensional player in a Finals game. Truly great players like Jordan don't let that happen. Got it now, Sparky?

The only true way to measure greatness is how you are able to dominate the players that you play against. Jordan dominated his competition in a way that Lebron has never been able to. Lebron may be the better player, but Jordan is greater. Their is a difference IMO between greatness and who is the better player.

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I can tell your a novice fan on this statement. James directly contributed to something like half the Heat's 4th quarters points last night, played tremendous defense the entire 4th quarter last night including leading a shutout of the Mavs out in the last minute and a half.

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That is what role players do..... not the GOAT.
The GOAT does that and still drops 10 points for good measure....
James only takes it to the hole if he knows he will be able to finish with a dunk. He settles way to much for the jumper (and I have been impressed with how many he has made) but only shooting 3-4 FT per game in the finals show his lack of intensity.

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Scored in double-digits in all but one of 1,109 games as a Chicago Bull (8 points on March 22, 1986 vs. the Cleveland Cavaliers)
Scored 20 or more points in 1,099 games (926 regular season, 173 postseason)
Scored 30 or more points in 671 games (562 regular season, 109 postseason)
Scored 40 or more points in 211 games (173 regular season, 38 postseason)
Scored 50 or more points in 39 games (31 regular season, 8 postseason)

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Name that player?

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Scored in double-digits in all but one of 1,109 games as a Chicago Bull (8 points on March 22, 1986 vs. the Cleveland Cavaliers)

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Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Christian Welp?

Artis Gilmore?
Enis Whatley?
Orlando Woolridge?
Bill Wennington?
Craig Hodges?
James Edwards?

Alfredrick Hughes never scored less than 50 points in a game for the Bulls.

I bet most of those 100 that he did not score 20+ in were with the Wizards.

I heard somewhere that he scored 20 or more in every game from 87-98..... 11 years.

LJ had 17 last night?

so what you all are saying is that to be the best player you have to be the best scorer?

Look at Magic in the playoffs, hell look at West? He went 1-9 in the finals was he not great?

Bottom line is Jordan went to 3 years of college before coming into the NBA. James has been in the league 8 years. He has got a long, long way to go.

If you were going to start a pickup game and you saw MJ and James standing by each other, who are you choosing? I am going James.

Lebron James is the most sorry excuse of "the most talented player" to play in the NBA. Has no heart and no testicular fortitude(if he had he'd still be a Cavalier). Its a shame that people have to watch this flopping POS play ball.

Lebron worked awfully hard for 7 years with the Cavs, and the best team they put around him was still crap. The Cavs management tried (just look at the tremendous roster turnover), but they couldn't get any legit #2 players to go to Cleveland.

Why should he stay in a city that wasn't able to build a real playoff team? It's not like he bolted as soon as he had the chance, and he didn't do the Carmelo or Kobe thing where he tried to leave for years. There's no particular "testicular fortitude" in deciding you are ok with not winning a title in your career.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 6/7/2011 9:37a).]

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so what you all are saying is that to be the best player you have to be the best scorer?

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No, I am saying that the best player ever (with out question in my mind) scored 20+ points in 1,000 games in a row.....

all im saying is debate can ****ing end now.....

mj would have never scored just 8 in this game

never flopped like a fricken girl in this game

never played like le*****

mj was better, is better, and will always be better than le*****


game over

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It's not like he bolted as soon as he had the chance

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uh, isn't this exactly what he did? not only that, but as soon as he became a free agent, he began this whirlwind tour with other teams.. and, during this process, he did not have a single conversation with this current owner regarding his intentions (but of course later let him learn of his "Decision" the same way the rest of the world did?

the intestinal fortitude would have come in a phone call to the owner that you worked for the past 7 years, IN THE LEAST. although, i agree with other posters that it more would be in having the cajones to stay with your home team, be the man and work on recruiting Bosh to Cleveland (which was an option all along).

He resigned with the Cavs once back on 07 I think... He could have left then.

I laugh every time I see a Lebron/Jordan comparison.

lebron isn't even close to Jordan in any way shape or form.

Jordan has six tiles and lebron none, and the only reason why jordan doesn't have more than six is because he retired and then decided to come back later

This debate is officially over (though it was actually over before it started).

Lebron is a great player, but he will NEVER be MJ.

Can we bury this thread now? It's embarrassing that it's almost reached a 100 replies.

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If you were going to start a pickup game and you saw MJ and James standing by each other, who are you choosing? I am going James.

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MJ at age 26 or LeBron at 26?

MJ and it's not even close. MJ has the competitive fire the LeBron doesn't have.