That was a first - posted to another thread and it ended up here. Weird

fig96 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

fig96 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

deadbq03 said:

---

You're probably right on average, but "mid" might be a better term because if you look at talent levels on paper, MLS would struggle to make playoff, but would also never likely get relegated. Excluding Miami as a recent (cheating) outlier, when you look at player valuation on transfermarkt, the most valuable MLS squad (Atlanta) would be 9th most valuable in Championship, and the worst (Montreal) would be 18th (6th from bottom).

---

Are you claiming that Miami cheated in signing Messi? Or are you referring to the previous infraction?

---

Both? They literally made up new rules to sign Messi.

---

What rules did they make up? The DP rule has existed for a long time.

---

Apple is financing him coming to their team. That's pretty new.

---

What rule did that violate? You have a link to the rule in the rulebook?

(And Apple would have paid regardless of what team he joined. The Apple deal is for him to join the MLS, not a particular team)

wangus12 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

fig96 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

deadbq03 said:

---

You're probably right on average, but "mid" might be a better term because if you look at talent levels on paper, MLS would struggle to make playoff, but would also never likely get relegated. Excluding Miami as a recent (cheating) outlier, when you look at player valuation on transfermarkt, the most valuable MLS squad (Atlanta) would be 9th most valuable in Championship, and the worst (Montreal) would be 18th (6th from bottom).

---

Are you claiming that Miami cheated in signing Messi? Or are you referring to the previous infraction?

---

Both? They literally made up new rules to sign Messi.

---

What rules did they make up? The DP rule has existed for a long time.

---

I'm not sure about cheating, but they are basically skirting the salary cap by having him get direct pay not only from the Apple broadcast deal, but also he gets a percentage of any MLS merchandise sold. If you go by an LAFC Vela jersey, Messi gets a cut. If you go buy a Toronto FC hat, Messi gets a cut. The MLS is funding Messi's time at Miami.

Obviously all the owners agreed to it because of the advertising for the league and obviously the 100% sold out stadiums that they are getting from it.

---

Still not cheating.

And Messi isn't taking money out of other players (or teams) pockets, he gets a part of the INCREASE in Adidas sales due to his arrival. The players and teams all make out.

It's not technically cheating but MLS continually bends the rules to give certain teams roster advantages and while it is great for TV revenue, it's a crap competitive advantage given by the league to the chosen team.

Can you imagine the outrage if that happened in other American sports?

fig96 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

fig96 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

fig96 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

deadbq03 said:

---

You're probably right on average, but "mid" might be a better term because if you look at talent levels on paper, MLS would struggle to make playoff, but would also never likely get relegated. Excluding Miami as a recent (cheating) outlier, when you look at player valuation on transfermarkt, the most valuable MLS squad (Atlanta) would be 9th most valuable in Championship, and the worst (Montreal) would be 18th (6th from bottom).

---

Are you claiming that Miami cheated in signing Messi? Or are you referring to the previous infraction?

---

Both? They literally made up new rules to sign Messi.

---

What rules did they make up? The DP rule has existed for a long time.

---

Apple is financing him coming to their team. That's pretty new.

---

What rule did that violate? You have a link to the rule in the rulebook?

(And Apple would have paid regardless of what team he joined. The Apple deal is for him to join the MLS, not a particular team)

---

If you don't think they introduced that and the other revenue sharing just for him I don't know what tell you. The increased eyeballs are good for the league, but it obviously benefits Miami more than other clubs.

What a weird thing to get defensive about.

---

I'm not defensive, I'm just pointing out facts. I initially assumed there was some sort of special rule put in place just to get Messi, but then I saw this claim get thoroughly destroyed on reddit, and I did a 180.

Unlike when Beckham came to the MLS, there was no sudden rule change. The DP rule has been around for 16 years. I think Miami had to cut a previous DP player to make room for the 3 studs. What else would you have Miami do?

AgRyan04 said:

---

It's not technically cheating but MLS continually bends the rules to give certain teams roster advantages and while it is great for TV revenue, it's a crap competitive advantage given by the league to the chosen team.

Can you imagine the outrage if that happened in other American sports?

---

If Miami was one of those certain "beloved" teams, then why were they so bad? Weren't they punished by the league for actual cheating in the past? That doesn't seem like Miami is a "golden child" to me.

MLS would have done the same if Messi wanted to join FC Dallas, the Red Bulls, or whatever. They weren't acting on a pro-Miami bias, they were acting on a pro-getting-stud-players-into-the-league bias. And, obviously that's not actually a "bias". That's what every league would do.

And America is #1 in the other major American sports. They already have the studs. They don't have to try hard to woo them from other countries.

I called them a chosen team, not the beloved team. I'm not saying it is the same team (outside of the usual suspect, Galaxy).

Miami was gifted the greatest soccer player in history by the league pulling strings for them.

I understand that the league is looking out for its best interest, but I don't really care if the league or the owners get to pad their pockets. I think it's rediculous that there are such crazy salary rules and restrictions for clubs and then one team gets a free pass of insane magnitude.

AgRyan04 said:

---

I called them a chosen team, not the beloved team. I'm not saying it is the same team (outside of the usual suspect, Galaxy).

Miami was gifted the greatest soccer player in history by the league pulling strings for them.

I understand that the league is looking out for its best interest, but I don't really care if the league or the owners get to pad their pockets. I think it's rediculous that there are such crazy salary rules and restrictions for clubs and then one team gets a free pass of insane magnitude.

---

Again, MLS didn't chose Miami. Messi did.

The "strings" they pulled (if any) was to get him into the league not on a particular team. They didn't care what team he joined. And I'm not really sure if MLS pulled any strings or if Apple and Adidas simply made a deal directly with Messi.

And Miami didn't violate, skirt, or bend any salary rules. They are following the DP rule like every other team in the league.

AgRyan04 said:

---

I think it's rediculous that there are such crazy salary rules and restrictions for clubs and then one team gets a free pass of insane magnitude.

---

I take it you're not a Chelsea or citeh fan then...

aTmAg said:

---

I'm not defensive, I'm just pointing out facts. I initially assumed there was some sort of special rule put in place just to get Messi, but then I saw this claim get thoroughly destroyed on reddit, and I did a 180.

Unlike when Beckham came to the MLS, there was no sudden rule change. The DP rule has been around for 16 years. I think Miami had to cut a previous DP player to make room for the 3 studs. What else would you have Miami do?

---

Whether we call it a new "rule" or mechanism or whatever is academic. It's obviously something created to enable signing Messi.

And if you're ok with it that's fine, it's a good thing for the league in general. But as noted this is standard pattern for MLS, the joke literally used to wondering what new rule they've created for LA. It'll probably happen again in some form when Mbappe or Neymar or some other big enough name decides to make the jump.

And again, that's not necessarily bad for the league itself or at least not the league's ownership and overall viewership, but it absolutely will continue to benefit some clubs a lot more than others.

fig96 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

I'm not defensive, I'm just pointing out facts. I initially assumed there was some sort of special rule put in place just to get Messi, but then I saw this claim get thoroughly destroyed on reddit, and I did a 180.

Unlike when Beckham came to the MLS, there was no sudden rule change. The DP rule has been around for 16 years. I think Miami had to cut a previous DP player to make room for the 3 studs. What else would you have Miami do?

---

Whether we call it a new "rule" or mechanism or whatever is academic. It's obviously something created to enable signing Messi.

And if you're ok with it that's fine, it's a good thing for the league in general. But as noted this is standard pattern for MLS, the joke literally used to wondering what new rule they've created for LA. It'll probably happen again in some form when Mbappe or Neymar or some other big enough name decides to make the jump.

And again, that's not necessarily bad for the league itself or at least not the league's ownership and overall viewership, but it absolutely will continue to benefit some clubs a lot more than others.

---

What is not academic is who is implementing the mechanism. It's not MLS. It's Apple and Adidas.

Did the Bulls or the NBA cheat when Nike paid Jordan an asinine amount of shoe money? No. Did A&M, Tennessee, Ohio State, Bama, etc. (or the NCAA) cheat when external entities signed big NIL deals with players? No. As that is available to all teams.

And what makes this different than Beckham to LA, is that back then MLS made an actual rule change at the exact moment that LA wanted to break the existing rule to benefit themselves over everybody else. That's not happening here. Miami is following the same 16 year old rule that is utilized by every other team. They just used it sign the GOAT rather than merely good players.

It's not Miami's (or MLS's) fault that Messi chose Miami. I would have preferred he chose FC Dallas.

If you believe MLS wasn't deeply deeply involved facilitating those deals I have whatever the cliche of stuff is to sell you.

And you actually hit on the bigger problem, he's not going to Dallas nor is any other superstar. It's LA/LAFC/NY/NYC/Miami.

Could that change? Maybe eventually, but nothing we've seen indicates that MLS would pull the same strings for a non-marquee team.

fig96 said:

---

If you believe MLS wasn't deeply deeply involved facilitating those deals I have whatever the cliche of stuff is to sell you.

---

I'm not saying they weren't involved. They desperately wanted Messi just like every league in the world. But they didn't pay for it nor did they demand that Miami be the team. They didn't care where he went.

Quote:

---

And you actually hit on the bigger problem, he's not going to Dallas nor is any other superstar. It's LA/LAFC/NY/NYC/Miami.

---

Well, unless they institute a draft, that's always going to happen. This isn't a cheating issue.

Quote:

---

Could that change? Maybe eventually, but nothing we've seen indicates that MLS would pull the same strings for a non-marquee team.

---

Prior to Messi signing, was Miami ever a "marquee team"? They were last place, and haven't won anything. And weren't they fined millions of dollars for violating roster rules previously? Doesn't sound like they were getting special treatment to me.

Miami is a marquee city, they'd just made really bad personnel and coaching moves to this point. Being a Beckham owned team is a great thing for the league to highlight.

While this isn't cheating, it's obvious that some policies and rule bending are far more beneficial to some teams than others. Either way I don't really know what you're trying to argue for at this point and this has thoroughly derailed so I'll leave you to it.

fig96 said:

---

Miami is a marquee city, they'd just made really bad personnel and coaching moves to this point. Being a Beckham owned team is a great thing for the league to highlight.

While this isn't cheating, it's obvious that some policies and rule bending are far more beneficial to some teams than others. Either way I don't really know what you're trying to argue for at this point and this has thoroughly derailed so I'll leave you to it.

---

Not sure about that. I've always thought Miami was a bit of a ****-hole. Except for the rich areas (just like every city).

And what would you have MLS do? Fine Inter Miami because Adidas and Apple are paying a player money on the side?

aTmAg said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Miami is a marquee city, they'd just made really bad personnel and coaching moves to this point. Being a Beckham owned team is a great thing for the league to highlight.

While this isn't cheating, it's obvious that some policies and rule bending are far more beneficial to some teams than others. Either way I don't really know what you're trying to argue for at this point and this has thoroughly derailed so I'll leave you to it.

---

Not sure about that. I've always thought Miami was a bit of a ****-hole. Except for the rich areas (just like every city).

And what would you have MLS do? Fine Inter Miami because Adidas and Apple are paying a player money on the side?

---

Yes, I'm suggesting we fine Miami, totally what I've been advocating for the entire time.

The strawman arguments you introduce into virtually every discussion you're part of on this entire site are beyond tiring. Have a good one.

fig96 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Miami is a marquee city, they'd just made really bad personnel and coaching moves to this point. Being a Beckham owned team is a great thing for the league to highlight.

While this isn't cheating, it's obvious that some policies and rule bending are far more beneficial to some teams than others. Either way I don't really know what you're trying to argue for at this point and this has thoroughly derailed so I'll leave you to it.

---

Not sure about that. I've always thought Miami was a bit of a ****-hole. Except for the rich areas (just like every city).

And what would you have MLS do? Fine Inter Miami because Adidas and Apple are paying a player money on the side?

---

Yes, I'm suggesting we fine Miami, totally what I've been advocating for the entire time.

The strawman arguments you introduce into virtually every discussion you're part of on this entire site are beyond tiring. Have a good one.

---

I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting that. I am wondering what you would have MLS do to "rectify" the situation?

Yes, back to the actual purpose of this thread. Wrexham.

Another draw this weekend. Better than a loss. But hopefully they get back in the win column soon.

Interesting that Notts County is sitting in 4th with a 3-1-1 record.

Lots of games left in the season! Hopefully when Paul Mullin returns that will be a big lift to Wrexham.

Inca said:

---

Yes, back to the actual purpose of this thread. Wrexham.

Another draw this weekend. Better than a loss. But hopefully they get back in the win column soon.

Interesting that Notts County is sitting in 4th with a 3-1-1 record.

Lots of games left in the season! Hopefully when Paul Mullin returns that will be a big lift to Wrexham.

---

Well when your best player gets taken out by Man U because they're jealous, then it'll be harder to win games.

Maybe staff can cut the last 1.5 pages and paste them to the Messi to MLS post where they belong?

carl spacklers hat said:

---

Maybe staff can cut the last 1.5 pages and paste them to the Messi to MLS post where they belong?

---

Maybe you can worry about your business and not what a natural conversation ebbs and flows.

Inca said:

---

It's been a total thread derail. Which you are now furthering.

---

Calling someone for derailing a thread is more derailing than people who derail it as a natural conversation.

But, if you looked at my next post, you could see I failed at every attempt to un-derail it.

What does MLS D have to do with Wrexham?????

Inca said:

---

What does MLS D have to do with Wrexham?????

---

Oppps...wrong thread.

I thought we were on Messi and went off track.

Well when your best player gets taken out by Man U because they're jealous, then it'll be harder to win games.

Rudyjax said:

---

carl spacklers hat said:

---

Maybe staff can cut the last 1.5 pages and paste them to the Messi to MLS post where they belong?

---

Maybe you can worry about your business and not what a natural conversation ebbs and flows.

---

You feeling a bit guilty there or something? I didn't call anyone out in particular but since you're being an a$$, I can understand why you chaffed at my comment - you're the primary contributor to the thread derail.

carl spacklers hat said:

---

Rudyjax said:

---

carl spacklers hat said:

---

Maybe staff can cut the last 1.5 pages and paste them to the Messi to MLS post where they belong?

---

Maybe you can worry about your business and not what a natural conversation ebbs and flows.

---

You feeling a bit guilty there or something? I didn't call anyone out in particular but since you're being an a$$, I can understand why you chaffed at my comment - you're the primary contributor to the thread derail.

---

I'm not but who cares?

Carry on.

Wrexham with a respectable 9 points through 6 matches. A narrative certainly welcome by the documentary crew is that Wrexham's dance partner last campaign, Notts County, sits atop the standings with 13 points. The club also didn't lose its best player while doing a tour of the US, like Wrexham.

The storylines/drama practically writes itself.

There's also this drama for the show…

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38319555/wrexham-record-transfer-falls-deadline-day?platform=amp