I don't have any evidence of this, but I really do think the USSF basically has taken the strategy of trying to squeeze every last drop of marketability out of this current group of USWNT stars for $$$/publicity's sake. Even to the detriment of long-term competitiveness. Sure the coaches played a role in getting us where we are, but if you don't think the Fed leadership loves selling out stadiums of folks wanting to see Rapinoe et al. for as long as possible, you don't know US Soccer very well.

And here's where maybe just priorities and time horizons have different motivations for you and I. I'll take the World Cups. That's what the Senior HC is hired to do. There's an entire staff to develop the future and yes, the HC has the ultimate say on who comes in to camps, but first and foremost they're asked to win. Remember when Jill experimented in the 2017 SheBelieves Cup? Fans & federation went absolutely nuts. Don't experiment...win. That was the message received.

So totally cool to agree to disagree. Like I said, I'm not blindly defending. But I do think Vlatko has fielded the best possible team to win this tournament and I don't care if they're old. The 2022 January camp may be the youngest camp we've ever had. And they have 18 months to get ready for the next Cup...I'm cool with that.

I agree with you on that. The endless "tours" were just a money grab for USSF.

Like I said on page one of this thread: USWNT is partially really Disney on ice.

Sure... if Disney on Ice had won multiple World Ice Capades Cups or somesuch.

littlebitofhifi said:

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So totally cool to agree to disagree. Like I said, I'm not blindly defending. But I do think Vlatko has fielded the best possible team to win this tournament and I don't care if they're old. The 2022 January camp may be the youngest camp we've ever had. And they have 18 months to get ready for the next Cup...I'm cool with that.

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This is exactly where I am.

Like I said earlier, I've not seen any non-veteran players come into games and wow me against the lowly CONCACAF opponents we've played.

I think striker in the most "experience" heavy so I went to the NWSL website and just for simplicity's sake took a look at the top 15 league leading goal scorers in 2020 and 2021...

Here are the U.S. born strikers from those two lists who don't play for other national teams and are not on this Olympic roster

Sydney Leroux (31 y.o.)
Ashley Hatch (26 y.o.)
Lynn Williams x 2 (28 y.o.)
Simone Charley x 2 (26 y.o.)
Jessica McDonald (33 y.o.)
Sophia Smith (20 y.o.)
Bethany Baker x 2 (24 y.o.)
Makenzy Doniak (27 y.o.)
Veronika Latsko (25 y.o.)
Paige Monaghan (24 y.o.)
Kealea Watt (29 y.o.)

Outside the four with a number of USWNT caps, I don't know anything about them other than Watt married well. Without knowing any of their styles of play and how they would fit into the X's & O's of what Vlad wants to do, I think you could say there there are basically 3 "young" NWSL strikers who weren't in the mix for this Olympic roster - Baker, Latsko, Monaghan.


I don't really feel like Williams, Smith, or McDonald deserved a roster spot over anyone who did make it (I would listen to a discussion on Heath), so are any of Baker, Latsko, Monaghan significantly better than Williams, Smith, McDonald?

Are there a bunch of Euro based U.S. players that we don't know about?

I miss Sydney Leroux getting called up

I'm really tired of the same dumb fight between the USSF and the Wnt.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/team/_/id/2765/united-states

ChipFTAC01 said:

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I'm really tired of the same dumb fight between the USSF and the Wnt.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/team/_/id/2765/united-states

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Saw an ad for it and HBO+...made me not want to sign up for HBO+.

Thought it was over then the players' lawyer decided to do a documentary to stir up the rabble since they lost the equal pay argument in court.

Leroux is tied with Morgan for the lead in goals in NWSL with 4 and Lloyd's scored 0, Rapinoe scored 1 so far this year in league play.

I think Leroux made the World Cup roster the same year the Crystal Dunn was the last player out. Was that WC Canada? Then Leroux ended up being pregnant during the tournament and couldn't play much more than as a sub in the last 10 minutes.

Ya'll remember that World Cup with the USWNT found another reason to ***** & moan about? That time was playing on turf instead of grass like the men do. They went on their champions tour after winning and refused to play in Hawaii cuz of the turf and almost refused to play in San Antonio because the grass that was laid over the turf wasn't acceptable to them either. If it's not one thing it's another with the USWNT....

It wasn't just the USWNT who petitioned against artificial turf. It was every single participating countries federation. Then Rapinoe tore her ACL on that Hawaii "grass" and was worthless in an Olympic comeback attempt. We can debate all we want about equal pay but if you think asking players to play in unsafe conditions is acceptable then you're wrong.

jessexy said:

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I think Leroux made the World Cup roster the same year the Crystal Dunn was the last player out. Was that WC Canada? Then Leroux ended up being pregnant during the tournament and couldn't play much more than as a sub in the last 10 minutes.

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Leroux was not pregnant during the World Cup. She was injured and ended up having ankle surgery immediately after the tournament so missed the rest of her professional season and then got pregnant during that offseason.

But yea, that is the World Cup where Dunn just missed the cut.

TRM said:

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ChipFTAC01 said:

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I'm really tired of the same dumb fight between the USSF and the Wnt.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/team/_/id/2765/united-states

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Saw an ad for it and HBO+...made me not want to sign up for HBO+.

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What is sad is these women feel so entitled even though they make a solid living playing for the USWNT. Compare this generation with.the sacrifices of the early teams and they have nothing to complain about,

AustinScubaAg said:

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TRM said:

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ChipFTAC01 said:

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I'm really tired of the same dumb fight between the USSF and the Wnt.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/team/_/id/2765/united-states

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Saw an ad for it and HBO+...made me not want to sign up for HBO+.

---

What is sad is these women feel so entitled even though they make a solid living playing for the USWNT. Compare this generation with.the sacrifices of the early teams and they have nothing to complain about,

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The older current players are making money but are the younger USWNT fringe players making any real money?

tysker said:

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AustinScubaAg said:

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TRM said:

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ChipFTAC01 said:

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I'm really tired of the same dumb fight between the USSF and the Wnt.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/team/_/id/2765/united-states

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Saw an ad for it and HBO+...made me not want to sign up for HBO+.

---

What is sad is these women feel so entitled even though they make a solid living playing for the USWNT. Compare this generation with.the sacrifices of the early teams and they have nothing to complain about,

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The older current players are making money but are the younger USWNT fringe players making any real money?

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not anywhere close. The CBA for the USWNT provides salary and benefits for about 30 players. Those 30 get around 190k base plus appearance bonuses, a cut of gate revenue and endorsement money. The base is for a specific number of USWNT appearances and league play.

USSF offered the USWNT the same pay-for-play deal the men's team has several years ago but they declined in favor of the guaranteed salary model.

So I would argue that the net result of how USWNT comp is structures, the "haves" fight as hard as they can to keep their spot at the expense of the "have-nots". It makes perfect sense. Same for the men: if you're not picked for a camp or a match, who cares? You did nothing; you get nothing. If you are picked, good for you. You get the pay you earned. The men's structure makes it a whole lot easier to simply pick the best roster.

ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

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tysker said:

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AustinScubaAg said:

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TRM said:

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ChipFTAC01 said:

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I'm really tired of the same dumb fight between the USSF and the Wnt.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/team/_/id/2765/united-states

---

Saw an ad for it and HBO+...made me not want to sign up for HBO+.

---

What is sad is these women feel so entitled even though they make a solid living playing for the USWNT. Compare this generation with.the sacrifices of the early teams and they have nothing to complain about,

---

The older current players are making money but are the younger USWNT fringe players making any real money?

---

not anywhere close. The CBA for the USWNT provides salary and benefits for about 30 players. Those 30 get around 190k base plus appearance bonuses, a cut of gate revenue and endorsement money. The base is for a specific number of USWNT appearances and league play.

USSF offered the USWNT the same pay-for-play deal the men's team has several years ago but they declined in favor of the guaranteed salary model.

So I would argue that the net result of how USWNT comp is structures, the "haves" fight as hard as they can to keep their spot at the expense of the "have-nots". It makes perfect sense. Same for the men: if you're not picked for a camp or a match, who cares? You did nothing; you get nothing. If you are picked, good for you. You get the pay you earned. The men's structure makes it a whole lot easier to simply pick the best roster.

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I'd add some of the star players are married to 3rd string JAGs that keep some of the "fringe" players from being in the player pool.

littlebitofhifi said:

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It wasn't just the USWNT who petitioned against artificial turf. It was every single participating countries federation. Then Rapinoe tore her ACL on that Hawaii "grass" and was worthless in an Olympic comeback attempt. We can debate all we want about equal pay but if you think asking players to play in unsafe conditions is acceptable then you're wrong.

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Exactly. The desire for an equal (but also not really the same) pay structure stuff is hard for me to get behind, but the two teams should absolutely be receiving the same travel arrangements, perdeims, etc.

Replace the old women with transgender talent; keep winning and be the world's darlings. Easy peasy.

Little rant here:

I have 2 daughters that played soccer, and I used to watch every USWNT game with them. We knew everybody's name. We each had our favorite players and everything. Meanwhile I only knew about a third of the USMNT.

However, ever since they became "woke" America haters, I've decided to not watch them again (unless they repent). My daughters would give their left ovaries to play for America (for free). These *****es are not only given the opportunity to play, they are paid. Then they have the audacity to bash the country that gives them all that. So screw them.

I'm going to go all in on the USMNT now.

Well, bye.

I think you're letting the opinions of a vocal minority dictate your views.

jeffk said:

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littlebitofhifi said:

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It wasn't just the USWNT who petitioned against artificial turf. It was every single participating countries federation. Then Rapinoe tore her ACL on that Hawaii "grass" and was worthless in an Olympic comeback attempt. We can debate all we want about equal pay but if you think asking players to play in unsafe conditions is acceptable then you're wrong.

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Exactly. The desire for an equal (but also not really the same) pay structure stuff is hard for me to get behind, but the two teams should absolutely be receiving the same travel arrangements, perdeims, etc.

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They already get that. It's been in their CBA for quite some time now. Court that granted USSF summary judgment in wage discrimination suit brought by USWNT actually did a really thorough analysis of everything and the history of the teams reaching their current arrangement. When distilled down to as close to apples and apples as you can get, the result it spits out is that all-in comp (including benefits, travel, etc) is actually quite similar with the women taking home a little more on a per-match basis.

There was much bellyaching about how the USSF used "scorched earth" tactics in getting a win but the truth is that the judge in the case gave the USWNT a fair shake (certified their class action), took significant expert testimony, and the result was the result. If the judge was doing anything untoward, it would have been suggested at the class certification stage of the suit (judge would have refused to certify class and told USWNT to piss up a rope; instead he certified the class and told everyone to get to the bottom of the matter).

At this point, people grousing about the compensation issue aren't upset that it's discriminatory. They're upset that the USWNT doesn't get more than they've bargained for because they're more successful.

Quote:

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They're upset that the USWNT doesn't get more than they've bargained for because they're more successful.

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In the end the compensation argument is about equity not equality. USWNT is more successful in a small pond, however the USMNT competes in an ocean in comparison. The winner of the womens' WC actually gets a bigger % of the overall prize money as compared to the men's winner (2019 WWC: $4M out of $30M awarded, 13.3% vs. 2018 MWC: $38M out of $400M, 9.5%)

Yeah, that's correct. Most of the working conditions complaints were reconciled in the last CBA, correct? Now it's 100% pay amount/structure.

Kevin the 3-legged dog said:

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I think you're letting the opinions of a vocal minority dictate your views.

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Have the others come out and defended America and criticize Rapinoe? What about the coaches?

aTmAg said:

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Little rant here:

I have 2 daughters that played soccer, and I used to watch every USWNT game with them. We knew everybody's name. We each had our favorite players and everything. Meanwhile I only knew about a third of the USMNT.

However, ever since they became "woke" America haters, I've decided to not watch them again (unless they repent). My daughters would give their left ovaries to play for America (for free). These *****es are not only given the opportunity to play, they are paid. Then they have the audacity to bash the country that gives them all that. So screw them.

I'm going to go all in on the USMNT now.

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I thought you were already out on the USMNT because of their own wokeness?

jeffk said:

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aTmAg said:

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Little rant here:

I have 2 daughters that played soccer, and I used to watch every USWNT game with them. We knew everybody's name. We each had our favorite players and everything. Meanwhile I only knew about a third of the USMNT.

However, ever since they became "woke" America haters, I've decided to not watch them again (unless they repent). My daughters would give their left ovaries to play for America (for free). These *****es are not only given the opportunity to play, they are paid. Then they have the audacity to bash the country that gives them all that. So screw them.

I'm going to go all in on the USMNT now.

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I thought you were already out on the USMNT because of their own wokeness?

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I doubt that was me, because I wasn't aware of the USMNT being woke. (Unless I forgot). Are they dumbasses too?

If Rapinoe blows out a knee, we won't have to hear this nonsense for years.

Yeah, USMNT has been woke but they have not gotten the same level of attention from media about it.

akm91 said:

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Yeah, USMNT has been woke but they have not gotten the same level of attention from media about it.

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What did they do?

aTmAg said:

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akm91 said:

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Yeah, USMNT has been woke but they have not gotten the same level of attention from media about it.

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What did they do?

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Some of the shirts they've worn and also you have individual players that have made comments. Reggie Cannon made some comments last year I think and there was a somewhat long (by F51 standards) thread about Cannon's comments.

Here's an article from earlier in the year about it: USMNT and Black Lives Still Matter

akm91 said:

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aTmAg said:

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akm91 said:

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Yeah, USMNT has been woke but they have not gotten the same level of attention from media about it.

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What did they do?

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Some of the shirts they've worn and also you have individual players that have made comments. Reggie Cannon made some comments last year I think and there was a somewhat long (by F51 standards) thread about Cannon's comments.

Here's an article from earlier in the year about it: USMNT and Black Lives Still Matter

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If they fell for the BLM nonsense then that's one thing. That just means they are gullible and stupid. If they kneeled during the national anthem or otherwise bashed America then that's another. If they did the latter, then I'm out.

Ah, my bad. Got you mixed up with another poster.