It's very interesting to see the 2 teams play in the same week.

The women line up for a friendly with Portugal.
Their oldest starter is 35 and youngest is 26. The average age is 30.5.
The subs range from 38 to 20. Average age is 26.6. There were 2 20 year olds.

The men lined up for a friendly with Costa Rica.
Their oldest starter is 33 and the youngest is 18. The average age is 23.36
The subs range from 28 to 18. The average age is 23.5.

What does this mean? Not a lot in the big picture, but I do have a couple of opinions.

For the women:
Are there not a lot of young women who can challenge the spots held by older veterans? Or are the veterans given their spot based on past performance and it''ll take a heck of a lot to displace them? How much does marketing have to do with the lineup?

Could this be a sign that our young women aren't as strong and we'll struggle in the next world cup?

I know they will still do better than the men in international competitions, but they've proven any thing but the best in the world is unacceptable. I think they'll probably win the Olympics, but it'll be close. It's the next WC I'm worried about. Will a 40 year old Cari Lloyd still be our best super sub at the 9?
Do women not drop off as much physically with aging?

For the men:
Our lost generation is very evident. As these guys continue to grow and supplanted by up and comers, one can only hope the 26 world cup will be our best ever.

TLDR: The women are old. The men are not. Are the women going to drop off? Obviously, the women are incredibly successful in comparison to the men, but will they remain as successful if they're not developing younger talent?

So the concern of them dropping off significantly is valid. Great.

Aston94 said:

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Teams are just in different periods relative to their life cycle. USWNT has a very mature group who has played together for a long period of time and are still at the top level. I look for them to start changing and getting younger after this Olympics. Most will probably hand around another 2 years for the next WWC, and then I would expect to see a wholesale youth movement.

There are some young stars with the WNT and more in the pipeline, but hard to replace the group who has had so much success.

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I hope so.

akm91 said:

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Kevin the 3-legged dog said:

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So the concern of them dropping off significantly is valid. Great.

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Not dropping off but the rest of the world is stepping up.

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Well, if they don't have the quality to replace the aging stars, wouldn't that be dropping off?

I just can't see a 35 year old Rapinoe and a 38 year Lloyd not having younger, better players than them.

The women really need to play their young players

They played several players at the World Cup that shouldnt have been out there

Rose Lavelle and Mallory Pugh are the only 2 younger players I can name off hand and idk if they even count anymore.

KCup17 said:

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Rose Lavelle and Mallory Pugh are the only 2 younger players I can name off hand and idk if they even count anymore.

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Rose is my favorite and she's 26 and was the youngest starter. She's in her prime.

Pugh is 23 and wasn't listed as a sub, but they only had 22. She may be the 23rd.

Lindsey Horan-26
Mallory Pugh-22
Rose Lavelle-25
Catarina Macario-21 (remember the name)
Tierna Davidson- 22
Sophie Smith-20
Margaret Purce-25

Those are all young players who will be the core moving forward. I am sure there will be some issues with the transition, but players like the Mewis sisters are not even 30, so they could be around another 2 WC cycles.

I do hope we start seeing some of the older players get phased out after this Olympics. I don't think Lloyd, O'Hara and Rapinoe should be occupying roster spots in the future after this summer.

I agree.

I feel as though Rapinoe is going to be another Wambach in her last WC where she comes off the bench and gives a good 15 mins but that's all shes really good for.

Of the young players coming through who do you think is the future leader and captain of the USWNT?

Aston94 said:

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I do hope we start seeing some of the older players get phased out after this Olympics. I don't think Lloyd, O'Hara and Rapinoe should be occupying roster spots in the future after this summer.

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I think that's my whole point.

Aston94 said:

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Lindsey Horan-26
Mallory Pugh-22
Rose Lavelle-25
Catarina Macario-21 (remember the name)
Tierna Davidson- 22
Sophie Smith-20
Margaret Purce-25

Those are all young players who will be the core moving forward. I am sure there will be some issues with the transition, but players like the Mewis sisters are not even 30, so they could be around another 2 WC cycles.

I do hope we start seeing some of the older players get phased out after this Olympics. I don't think Lloyd, O'Hara and Rapinoe should be occupying roster spots in the future after this summer.

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Agree with the above.

Remember, the women's schedule differs greatly with the men's due to having back-to-back major tournaments (2019 World Cup + 2020-21 Olympics). So this is extremely common every cycle. There's just not enough time to work the new young players into the full team between tournaments. So you'll nearly always see the World Cup and Olympics teams look very similar. Then you'll see mass retirements after the Olympics cycle and you've got 2 full years (COVID scheduling change aside) to get the new crew ready for World Cup qualifying.

But the next generation for the USWNT looks very, very strong. The ones listed above, plus just look at the first 3 picks in this years NWSL draft. Emily Fox (defender, 22), Trinity Rodman (forward, 19), Brianna Pinto (midfielder, 20). Fox and Pinto have already had senior national team call-ups for camps and/or friendly tournaments as teenagers

I am very high on the young group for the States, but as others have mentioned the world is catching up. Which is fantastic, but we US fans are going to have to adjust to the competition. We are going to start losing matches. I think we'll lose our #1 ranking at some point in the next 4 years. It sucks as a lifelong USWNT fan, but it is super exciting for the growth of women's soccer.

(ps. Italy beat The Netherlands 1-0 and Denmark beat Australia 3-2 in friendly yesterdays. Small sample size but intriguing score lines.)

I do think some folks over overestimating the branding piece. For one, USSF doesn't make that much money off the player's brands. The women's collective bargaining agreement specifically negotiated that the players get most of the profit from their likenesses plus they sign their own endorsements deals. So USSF is making money off attendance and tv rights which means they have to field a winning team. No one is showing up to see Alex Morgan if she didn't score goals and win games. Megan Rapinoe made her first national team appearance in 2006 and I'd bet no one outside of pretty active fans knew her name until the last couple of years.

Believe what you want, but the USWNT doesn't have any household names unless they win first.

littlebitofhifi said:

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I do think some folks over overestimating the branding piece. For one, USSF doesn't make that much money off the player's brands. The women's collective bargaining agreement specifically negotiated that the players get most of the profit from their likenesses plus they sign their own endorsements deals. So USSF is making money off attendance and tv rights which means they have to field a winning team. No one is showing up to see Alex Morgan if she didn't score goals and win games. Megan Rapinoe made her first national team appearance in 2006 and I'd bet no one outside of pretty active fans knew her name until the last couple of years.

Believe what you want, but the USWNT doesn't have any household names unless they win first.

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They've always pretty much won or come close to winning.

So it's a chicken/egg thing, no?

And the fact is there really are no professional sports for women that steal the talent.

littlebitofhifi said:

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I do think some folks over overestimating the branding piece. For one, USSF doesn't make that much money off the player's brands. The women's collective bargaining agreement specifically negotiated that the players get most of the profit from their likenesses plus they sign their own endorsements deals. So USSF is making money off attendance and tv rights which means they have to field a winning team. No one is showing up to see Alex Morgan if she didn't score goals and win games. Megan Rapinoe made her first national team appearance in 2006 and I'd bet no one outside of pretty active fans knew her name until the last couple of years.

Believe what you want, but the USWNT doesn't have any household names unless they win first.

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They're not going to get the turnout if they're marketing Pugh, Smith and Macario as opposed to Morgan, Rapinoe, Ertz and etc.

Well they got the same type of turnout for Morgan, Rapinoe, and Ertz when they were marketing Wambach, Rampone, and Solo 8-10 years ago.

In 8-10 years, Smith & Macario may be the faces used for marketing...IF they keep winning.

I don't have much to add to this other than I just happened to see a bit of the interview that Sam Mewis (?) I think did on Men in Blazers earlier this year in their end of season wrap up.

She commented that when she went over to City(I think?) last year she was amazed at how much more technical the game was than what she was used to playing. Thought that was interesting from someone who I presume was already playing at a high NCAA/NWSL/USWNT level.

ChipFTAC01 said:

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I don't have much to add to this other than I just happened to see a bit of the interview that Sam Mewis (?) I think did on Men in Blazers earlier this year in their end of season wrap up.

She commented that when she went over to City(I think?) last year she was amazed at how much more technical the game was than what she was used to playing. Thought that was interesting from someone who I presume was already playing at a high NCAA/NWSL/USWNT level.

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Yep, Sam played with City last year and was named to the PFA Team of the Year. She played at UCLA and has been in the NWSL for 5 years and won 2 NWSL championships, plus of course the 2019 WWC. So she's seen it all.

But she's right, the European players are developing technically far and above where the US has been. US colleges and the national team historically dominate on fitness and physicality. There are pockets of players (Heath, Lavelle, and upstart Macario) who thrive on the ball and in tight spaces, but most rely on precision runs, movement in space, and finishing...not 1v1 execution. Some of the Women's Champions League or other European league leaders (Lyon, PSG, Barca, Wolfsburg) exhibit a completely different technical level than what you see in the NWSL. Check out some highlights from Katoto (France), Hermoso (Spain), Martens (Netherlands) and there are dozens of players in those countries right on their heels.

Not really that surprising given how at young ages, the kids are taught to win and not necessarily the technical skills or tactical acumen. This is prevalent in the men's game for a long time and that is finally slowly changing.

I think there are a few big differences.

1a. The women generally play longer careers. There just isn't as much turnover.

1b. The men don't have to play as long because they make all their money playing for their clubs. The national team is where the women make their money.

2. I still think there has been a pretty significant turnover since the last Olympics....this midfield is overflowing with young exciting players, so I'm not buying that the older players are getting benefit of the doubt over better, younger players

3. I've watched a lot of the women's team and outside of Press, I truly don't think there are young forwards that have proven they deserve to play over Rapinoe or Morgan. And I wouldn't even consider Press "young" - she's definitely a proven veteran on the squad who is coming into her prime. I expect Lloyd to make the Olympic roster and know this will be her last major tournament. At this point in her career she is not finishing consistantly enough in front of goal to start anymore, but I haven't seen anyone impress me enough to say, "Wow I can't believe they're giving Lloyd minutes over her." She is still in great fitness and I think she has a higher work rate now than she did in her prime. Frankly, I think she's only reason she is still playing is simply because the Olympics weren't last year. Lynn Williams is not the answer. Maybe Macario will put it together but she hasn't wow'ed me in her limited time with the national team yet. Pugh is still young so maybe she will put it together still. But there is no 2011 Alex Morgan in the fold on the front line. And that scares me, because as alluded to above, the European teams are, without a doubt, closing the gap.

Alternative cynical take is the USSF has given the WNT coaches the directive to play these older stars until their wheels fall off.

There's a good amount of young talent in the system, but yeah, the rest of the world is closing the gap.

But you've got to figure they're playing somewhere at the club level turning heads and would be on the radar.

I don't follow the womens club soccer but someone is bound to know if there are U.S. national team caliber girls getting artificially held back at the national team level.

We've seen a lot of the second and third teamers play against some of these lower level CONCACAF opponents and no one is scoring hat tricks or making consistant smothering defensive plays.

AgRyan04 said:

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I don't disagree with you at all on that - Lavelle was unquestionably the best player in the last World Cup.

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Crystal Dunn says hi.

But aside from that first sentence, I'd agree with your thoughts/analysis. Well said.

Don't sleep on Macario. She was thrown into the last camp immediately after her FIFA approval. She has slowly made her way to a starting spot with French juggernauts Lyon. I don't know how much Vlatko will be playing with the lineup before the Olympics, but she is Lloyd's replacement and possibly Morgan's as well.

No one has mentioned Jaelin Howell who has impressed at FSU and I am excited to see where she lands professionally to further develop. Her or Andi Sullivan are waiting behind Ertz.

I could name several other players, but most have already been named. I am interested to see if Moultrie will be the next phenom or next Adu with Mark Parsons leaving Portland.

Yes, the players are old, but for a majority of them the Olympics are their last cycle. I don't think Vlatko anticipated having another year with the older players and hasn't been able to bring in the younger players as often to develop and gain the international experience needed prior to WC2023.

wangus12 said:

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I've felt like Rapinoe's age caught up with her in 2019. I thought she was very poor throughout most of the World Cup besides the France match. She was losing possession everytime the ball came to her on the right because she'd immediately try to bypass the defender and she didn't have the pace to do it. Lavelle was the best player at that tourney and got robbed.

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Yep, but you can't tell that to her ardent fans. She and others hanging on for the $$ are hurting the program in the long term.