I am a little surprised some hooliganism hasn't broke out yet. I guess it's hard to do when you aren't allowed at games or to gather in public.

Agthatbuilds said:

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I dont know if english fans will ever forgive their teams should they proceed. Ive already had one lifetime arsenal fan say he was moving on.


The reason being that these teams are an organic part of their city, typically started by the common local people long ago. The teams are part of the fabric of the identity of these people and cities. To have foreign owners chase money and disrupt said fabric is going to be unforgivable.

I wouldn't be surprised to see alternates pop up.

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Then maybe the leagues should have taken steps to prevent foreign ownership and/or how any ownership operates long ago. These same fans (maybe notnyour Arsenal example) didnt seem to have an issue when their new Russian/Saudi/Chinese owner was pumping the club with transfer funds rather than earning their place the traditional way.

I agree somewhat. I dont know the legal customs of England well enough to know whether that's actually doable.

Agthatbuilds said:

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I dont know if english fans will ever forgive their teams should they proceed. Ive already had one lifetime arsenal fan say he was moving on.


The reason being that these teams are an organic part of their city, typically started by the common local people long ago. The teams are part of the fabric of the identity of these people and cities. To have foreign owners chase money and disrupt said fabric is going to be unforgivable.

I wouldn't be surprised to see alternates pop up.

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Ehh those are empty threats IMO. People will come around whenever their team is back in it.

The A&M fans whining about the statue got pretty quiet near the end of the season eh.

They may not have but how many Chelsea or City fans were threatening to leave the club when their foreign owners were injected 100s of millions into the clubs. Neither had ever won much of anything until they were purchased by their current owners and neither "earned" their current status/place in world football in the traditional sense.

chjoak said:

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They may not have but how many Chelsea or City fans were threatening to leave the club when their foreign owners were injected 100s of millions into the clubs.

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For Chelsea I'd guesstimate the fans were probably about 100 - 0 in support of RA taking over.

Right now on the Chelsea board it's about 71 - 11 against the Super League:
https://www.theshedend.com/topic/34784-european-super-league/

TxAG#2011 said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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I dont know if english fans will ever forgive their teams should they proceed. Ive already had one lifetime arsenal fan say he was moving on.


The reason being that these teams are an organic part of their city, typically started by the common local people long ago. The teams are part of the fabric of the identity of these people and cities. To have foreign owners chase money and disrupt said fabric is going to be unforgivable.

I wouldn't be surprised to see alternates pop up.

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Ehh those are empty threats IMO. People will come around whenever their team is back in it.

The A&M fans whining about the statue got pretty quiet near the end of the season eh.

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"back in it' + winning. Some of these big brand name teams are going to have losing records by definition.

Valid point.

The only difference I'd point out is one of those things invest billions in your team without disrupting the entire system whereas the other one throws a big hand grenade to the system.

That's because mond and team did a very good job of keeping personal politics off the field. I guarantee there would have been much more of a ruckus had the team protested during a game.


However, winning usually solves all.

Chinese eyeballs will help fill any void left by leaving fans as well, see nba.

Agthatbuilds said:

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Valid point.

The only difference I'd point out is one of those things invest billions in your team without disrupting the entire system whereas the other one throws a big hand grenade to the system.

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I'd argue the opposite point of chjoak. Chelsea fans being 100-0 in favor of the move would be the ultimate hypocritical move. We benefited from Roman's money, now we want to protect our club from someone else disrupting our place.

Chelsea and Man City's success actually proved that any club could do well in the Premier League with an owner who brought cash; it introduces an element of randomness into the game.

And on the other side you could have a historic club like Leeds go the opposite direction and get relegated due to horrible management.

But a new Super League would actually remove that randomness which is why fans are overwhelmingly against it, even fans of the clubs who would benefit.

Would a good analogy be a hundred plus years long Poker tournament that has unlimited rebuys where chip leaders have mostly been within a small group yet the members of that group has slowly changed from decade to decade, and now all the current top chip leaders have all agreed to split the pot and end the current tournament and start a new one that only they can join?

That's a pretty good analogy. At least for England.

So the rumors were that Chelsea and City were basically told last week "get on board or get left behind" and only signed up essentially due to FOMO

Well now the rumor mill is spinning that 2 PL teams are on the verge of backing out... Both Chelsea and City have the deep pockets to take whatever financial hit not participating in the ESL would cause... Really hoping Roman shows some backbone here. Unlike most of the other key figures in this mess, he's a truly a fan deep down. As mad as I am at the club for getting dragged up into this mess... (like some others in this thread, if this goes through I'm done with the club - I'll become the stereotypical American soccer fan who tunes in once every 4 years for the WC)... As mad as I am, I would be ecstatic if we backed out first. All would be forgiven lol. I'm not crossing my fingers though.

Where are you hearing the rumors of teams backing out? Haven't seen that yet

Legal Custodian said:

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Where are you hearing the rumors of teams backing out? Haven't seen that yet

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****-tier source so like I said, I'm not banking on it

but I'd love to see it happen.


I think the owners knew there would be uproar and took a calculated gamble. I don't know that all of them anticipated that it would be this bad though. I think the speech I posted earlier from the Commons might be particularly worrisome for one or two (like Roman, who has been struggling to get a visa approved for the past few years). It's one thing to take on UEFA and the FA. It's another to take on a sovereign government like the UK. Less worrisome for the British, but still bad for the ESL overall have also been comments made by people in the European Commission.

ChipFTAC01 said:

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That's a pretty good analogy. At least for England.

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You may be on to something here. The only other league I watch at all is bundesliga, and that's on rare occasion because I enjoy the style of play. I know if I'm watching a Bayern game, they're going to win. Same with Barca, real, PSG, etc. Maybe The German, French, and Dutch leagues should merge as well as Spain and Italy. That would essentially create a big 6 in each league with a few other solid teams waiting for their chance

While I don't see this as a possibility, imagine if the UK government stripped working visa permits for the foreign players of these clubs.

That could be the ultimate checkmate.

Arsenal fans should be excited that Stan Kroenke remembered that he owns a soccer team.

After thinking about this more over the last 24 hours, I think the thing that I love about European competition is that it's special and different. "Holy ***** We're playing Barca! Messi is coming to Anfield for the first time since the comeback!" Or being able to talk **** to my one Juventus friend. But on a week in and week out basis I'd much rather be playing Newcastle and Sunderland and Leeds and EVERTON week in and week out.

ChipFTAC01 said:

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Arsenal fans should be excited that Stan Kroenke remembered that he owns a soccer team.

After thinking about this more over the last 24 hours, I think the thing that I love about European competition is that it's special and different. "Holy ***** We're playing Barca! Messi is coming to Anfield for the first time since the comeback!" Or being able to talk **** to my one Juventus friend. But on a week in and week out basis I'd much rather be playing Newcastle and Sunderland and Leeds and EVERTON week in and week out.

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Close geographical rivalries make this sport so popular. Take that out and the matches become very boring.

Pignorant said:

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ChipFTAC01 said:

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Arsenal fans should be excited that Stan Kroenke remembered that he owns a soccer team.

After thinking about this more over the last 24 hours, I think the thing that I love about European competition is that it's special and different. "Holy ***** We're playing Barca! Messi is coming to Anfield for the first time since the comeback!" Or being able to talk **** to my one Juventus friend. But on a week in and week out basis I'd much rather be playing Newcastle and Sunderland and Leeds and EVERTON week in and week out.

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Close geographical rivalries make this sport so popular. Take that out and the matches become very boring.

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Kampfers said:

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Legal Custodian said:

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Where are you hearing the rumors of teams backing out? Haven't seen that yet

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****-tier source so like I said, I'm not banking on it

but I'd love to see it happen.


I think the owners knew there would be uproar and took a calculated gamble. I don't know that all of them anticipated that it would be this bad though. I think the speech I posted earlier from the Commons might be particularly worrisome for one or two (like Roman, who has been struggling to get a visa approved for the past few years). It's one thing to take on UEFA and the FA. It's another to take on a sovereign government like the UK. Less worrisome for the British, but still bad for the ESL overall have also been comments made by people in the European Commission.

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Jim01 said:

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I got this book for Christmas and would recommend it:
https://www.amazon.com/Club-English-Premier-Wildest-Disruptive/dp/1328506452

It's the history of the Premier League from a business/club side. The answers to all question are, as always, money, but the three main points that changed the game for Premier League were:

1. TV Money - can't stress this enough. The realization of what they had and the HUGE jump in TV money started it all.

2. Marketing - Man U's marketing revolution, establishing those new revenue streams, and the blue print it laid out for other clubs

3. Foreign Money - #1 and #2 and the huge jump in money opened up foreign eyes to the prospect of teams as an investment and that really took it to the stratosphere, because money became no object.

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Just bought it on my kindle.

Perez also said that young people don't care about soccer because the games are too long and that's something they need to look into. A flipping hour and 45 minutes sporting even tis too long?? It's the shortest sport in existence right now. Honestly, I can't think of another major sport that is longer. They will kill soccer.

So Messi's contract is up this summer. What does he do? If Barca players are banned from WC, does he join Bayern or PSG?

Perez in his interview said that this was done to "save football". I believe he said that three times. If you look at the clubs joining the league, they are so far in debt it's ridiculous. They have mismanaged their financials so bad that they had to create this league in order to survive.

I think they've painted themselves into the corner where they create this league or they cease to exist as we know them now. When there are clubs over a billion dollars in debt and have to scrape together to get financing, it leads to disaster and they lose their massive investment.

What's so infuriating is that they think since they are hemorrhaging money that the entire sport is failing. That they are the sport and without them soccer ceases to exist. It's incredibly arrogant. But all in all, they're just trying to protect their massive investment.

Verne Lundquist said:

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I love how these businessmen that run multi billion dollar enterprises act like there's no way to break a contract.

aTmAg said:

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So Messi's contract is up this summer. What does he do? If Barca players are banned from WC, does he join Bayern or PSG?

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LA Galaxy or Inter Miami

Good little monologue by James Corden

deadbq03 said:

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I'd be 100% on board with this if there was a fair promotion/relegation system back to the domestic leagues.

But there's not. So I'm not.

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That's essentially what they have now. This is just a re creation of the Champions League but with a more guaranteed position than they already have.

fig96 said:

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Verne Lundquist said:

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I love how these businessmen that run multi billion dollar enterprises act like there's no way to break a contract.

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Not only is it trivially easy to break most contracts (particularly ones that haven't even begun to be consummated) but Perez is a straight up liar.

Acts like this was a reaction to COVID when he has been on record promoting this idea for at least 6 years. Claimed PSG, Bayern, and BVB weren't invited- der Spiegel has documents showing that the German teams were in fact invited and got 30 day deadlines to accept, PSG got a 14 day deadline.

FWIW a tier 1 Man City source says the agreements aren't legally binding yet

They just need to leave it alone. The current balance is, from my perspective as a fan, pretty good. The tops of the domestic leagues play each other at an extremely high level just about every year with little change in club names but the domestic cups keep it interesting. There are good FA Cup games and Europa League games and the top teams already play every year in the Champions League. It is a great setup.

Reminds me of ManU skipping the FA Cup. They never did it again and take it seriously because the fan backlash was universal. This seems to be as well.

Rugby has 40-minute halves and no stoppage time.

Serotonin said:

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Pignorant said:

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ChipFTAC01 said:

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Arsenal fans should be excited that Stan Kroenke remembered that he owns a soccer team.

After thinking about this more over the last 24 hours, I think the thing that I love about European competition is that it's special and different. "Holy ***** We're playing Barca! Messi is coming to Anfield for the first time since the comeback!" Or being able to talk **** to my one Juventus friend. But on a week in and week out basis I'd much rather be playing Newcastle and Sunderland and Leeds and EVERTON week in and week out.

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Close geographical rivalries make this sport so popular. Take that out and the matches become very boring.

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That looks like its either a fake picture, or a photo from one of those city building games where you **** up and built two stadiums.

Legal Custodian said:

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Perez also said that young people don't care about soccer because the games are too long and that's something they need to look into. A flipping hour and 45 minutes sporting even tis too long?? It's the shortest sport in existence right now. Honestly, I can't think of another major sport that is longer. They will kill soccer.

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56:40
I think that's a misinterpretation of what he meant since they speak weird Spanish in Spain.

I took it to mean kids aren't interested in watching big teams vs little teams when the score is 4-0 in the 60th minute. I think he meant not there is no interest in those type of games in the midweek so they cut (cortar) them out of the schedule.