interesting...that for the criticism of R.C.'s SWC years...

the Ags had some nice non-conference away wins:

1990 at Hawaii
1990 Holiday Bowl
1992 Pigskin Classic vs. Stanford
1992 at LSU
1992 at MIssouri
1994 at LSU
1994 at Louisville
1995 Alamo Bowl

ultimately...this is what makes the Sumlin era such an outlier of the past 40 years

I believe he won 24 away/road/neutral games in his 6 seasons

unprecedented for aggie football

Jawn Dough said:

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Are OOC road games harder than conference road games?

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In conference play you know the routine and teams you are playing much better. For example ... when we played Tech every year we were pretty familar with what to expect from them in terms of schemes we'd face and the general routine of being in Lubbock. Traveling to Virginia Tech, on the other hand, not so much.

jt16 said:

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We hardly, if ever, play a true road game against an OOC Power 5. Not many teams do. We've beaten plenty of OOC Power 5 teams since 2012 that aren't "true road games". This is a dumb stat looking for a problem.

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Yep

And the big east was considered a power conference when we beat Pitt on the road

Posts home stadium was Heinz field back then, I was at that game

It's ok to admit we perform pretty abysmally on the road and that odds are extremely good we lose all 3 major road games this year on the way to 8-4

Mac94 said:

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Lets see (OOC Power 4 games away from Kyle):
1995 L @ Colorado 21-29
1995 W vs Michigan (Alamo Bowl) 22-20
1997 L vs UCLA (Cotton Bowl) 23-29
1998 L vs FSU (New Jersey) 14-23
1998 L vs Ohio St. (Sugar Bowl) 14-24
1999 L Penn St (Alamo Bowl) 0-24
2000 L @ Notre Dame 10-24
2000 L vs Mississippi St. (Independence Bowl) 41-43
2001 W vs TCU (Gallery Furniture Bowl) 28-9
2002 W @ Pitt 14-12
2003 L @ Virginia Tech 19-35
2004 L @ Utah 21-41
2004 L vs Tennessee (Cotton Bowl) 7-38
2005 L @ Clemson 24-25
2006 L vs Cal (Holiday Bowl) 10-45
2007 L @ Miami 17-34
2007 L vs Penn St (Alamo Bowl) 17-24
2009 L vs Arkansas (Arlington) 19-47
2010 L vs Arkansas (Arlington) 17-24
2010 L vs LSU (Cotton Bowl) 24-41
2011 L vs Arkansas (Arlington) 38-42
2011 W vs Northwestern (Texas Bowl) 33-22
2012 W vs Oklahoma (Cotton Bowl) 41-13
2013 W vs Duke (Chick-fil-A Bowl) 52-48
2014 W @ SMU 58-6
2014 W vs W Virginia (Liberty Bowl) 45.37
2015 W vs Arizona St. (Houston) 38-17
2015 L vs Louisville (Music City Bowl) 21-27
2016 L vs Kansas St. (Texas Bowl) 28-33
2017 L @ UCLA 44-45
2017 L vs Wake Forest (Belk Bowl) 52-55
2018 W vs N.C. St. (Gator Bowl) 52-13
2019 L @ Clemson 10-24
2019 W vs Oklahoma St. (Texas Bowl) 24-21
2020 W vs N. Carolina (Orange Bowl) 41-27
2021 W vs Colorado (Denver) 10-7
2023 L @ Miami 33-48
2023 L vs Oklahoma St. (Texas Bowl) 23-31
2024 L vs USC (Vegas Bowl) 31-35

So looking at current power 4 teams that we played OOC either in bowls, neutral site, or true road games we are 13-26 since 1994. Very few of those were true road games but in those we are 2-9 against current P4 schools ... but SMU, Utah, nor Pitt were P4/5 at the time we played them so excluding those we'd be 0-8

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If you are going to include SMU in 2014, may as well include them in 2012 as well.

Jawn Dough said:

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Are OOC road games harder than conference road games?

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Well the cupcake OOC games are all at home, so the only time we play anyone good OOC is either on the road or at a neutral site, ala a bowl game.

class12of said:

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vander54 said:

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class12of said:

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I would definitely argue it was a neutral site. I was there and half the stadium was maroon.

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So hypothetically if we have close to half the fans at the Arkansas or Missouri games this year it will be a nuetral site game?

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Neutral means two things: not on anyone's home campus and close to 50/50 on fans. I'm not sure why you think an NFL stadium isn't neutral.

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he's arguing for the sake of arguing

Mac94 said:

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Jawn Dough said:

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Are OOC road games harder than conference road games?

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In conference play you know the routine and teams you are playing much better. For example ... when we played Tech every year we were pretty familar with what to expect from them in terms of schemes we'd face and the general routine of being in Lubbock. Traveling to Virginia Tech, on the other hand, not so much.

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So I guess beating #1 ranked Bama in Tuscaloosa didn't mean as much as beating an OOC opponent on their turf.

It's a stupid stat that means absolutely nothing. Just something for someone to use to yell that Aggies suck.

A win is a win.

Jawn Dough said:

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Mac94 said:

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Jawn Dough said:

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Are OOC road games harder than conference road games?

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In conference play you know the routine and teams you are playing much better. For example ... when we played Tech every year we were pretty familar with what to expect from them in terms of schemes we'd face and the general routine of being in Lubbock. Traveling to Virginia Tech, on the other hand, not so much.

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So I guess beating #1 ranked Bama in Tuscaloosa didn't mean as much as beating an OOC opponent on their turf.

It's a stupid stat that means absolutely nothing. Just something for someone to use to yell that Aggies suck.

A win is a win.

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LOL ... that's not what this thread is about. The Bama win in 2012 was awesome ... but the topic at hand as brought up in the OP was true OOC games looking ahead to this years Notre Dame game.

vander54 said:

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Tamuco99 said:

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RingOfive said:

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Colorado 2021. It was at Mile High, but that was probably a tougher win that it would have been on their campus.

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Neutral site, not a true road win

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True but that is why the stat posted is misleading. How many true road games have we had OOC since then? Also no one will argue that Colorado was a real neutral site game.

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Yet the OP is ready to perform seppuku and thought it was important to start a thread on it prior to the season.

I'm sorry…how many angels did op say can dance on the head of a pin???

W said:

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interesting...that for the criticism of R.C.'s SWC years...

the Ags had some nice non-conference away wins:

1990 at Hawaii
1990 Holiday Bowl
1992 Pigskin Classic vs. Stanford
1992 at LSU
1992 at MIssouri
1994 at LSU
1994 at Louisville
1995 Alamo Bowl

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Umm,

1992 LSU - 2-9 on season
1992 Mizzou - 3-8 on season
1994 LSU - 4-7 on season
1994 Louisville - 6-5 on season

I wouldn't exactly call any of those nice wins.

Texas_Ag11

the most cool guy said:

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Tamuco99 said:

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RingOfive said:

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Colorado 2021. It was at Mile High, but that was probably a tougher win that it would have been on their campus.

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Neutral site, not a true road win which is why he added that qualifier.

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Technically you're right, but for all intents and purposes it was a road game.

Even if you treat it as a road game though, it's still a depressing stat….27 years between OOC road wins. That is insane, not to mention pathetic.

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Dude if you get depressed by stuff like this get a freakin' shrink... Seriously WGAS.

If I had employees performing the way this organization has since the short lived Jackie Sherrill era, I would much rather they hear the truth than a bunch of fluff. The program needs to step it up, bigly!

85AustinAg said:

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the most cool guy said:

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Tamuco99 said:

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RingOfive said:

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Colorado 2021. It was at Mile High, but that was probably a tougher win that it would have been on their campus.

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Neutral site, not a true road win which is why he added that qualifier.

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Technically you're right, but for all intents and purposes it was a road game.

Even if you treat it as a road game though, it's still a depressing stat….27 years between OOC road wins. That is insane, not to mention pathetic.

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Dude if you get depressed by stuff like this get a freakin' shrink... Seriously WGAS.

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He's a self proclaimed happy person.

If Texas had agreed to maintain the series, we would have won in Austin multiple times...

greg.w.h said:

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I'm sorry…how many angels did op say can dance on the head of a pin???

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8 of them. 4 would have fallen off.

This - I don't think anybody is celebrating our road record but we have road wins in SEC in most years since we have joined and went 4-1 during an all sec 2020 schedule. Not hard to argue that a sec road win is tougher and more impressive than 90% OOC P4 wins. A better stat would be road win record against all P4 schools - still not what we want but don't get that gaudy since 1990s - we dominated an eventual 8-5 Florida on the road last year with our backup QB

class12of said:

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Mac94 said:

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Lets see (OOC Power 4 games away from Kyle):
1995 L @ Colorado 21-29
1995 W vs Michigan (Alamo Bowl) 22-20
1997 L vs UCLA (Cotton Bowl) 23-29
1998 L vs FSU (New Jersey) 14-23
1998 L vs Ohio St. (Sugar Bowl) 14-24
1999 L Penn St (Alamo Bowl) 0-24
2000 L @ Notre Dame 10-24
2000 L vs Mississippi St. (Independence Bowl) 41-43
2001 W vs TCU (Gallery Furniture Bowl) 28-9
2002 W @ Pitt 14-12
2003 L @ Virginia Tech 19-35
2004 L @ Utah 21-41
2004 L vs Tennessee (Cotton Bowl) 7-38
2005 L @ Clemson 24-25
2006 L vs Cal (Holiday Bowl) 10-45
2007 L @ Miami 17-34
2007 L vs Penn St (Alamo Bowl) 17-24
2009 L vs Arkansas (Arlington) 19-47
2010 L vs Arkansas (Arlington) 17-24
2010 L vs LSU (Cotton Bowl) 24-41
2011 L vs Arkansas (Arlington) 38-42
2011 W vs Northwestern (Texas Bowl) 33-22
2012 W vs Oklahoma (Cotton Bowl) 41-13
2013 W vs Duke (Chick-fil-A Bowl) 52-48
2014 W @ SMU 58-6
2014 W vs W Virginia (Liberty Bowl) 45.37
2015 W vs Arizona St. (Houston) 38-17
2015 L vs Louisville (Music City Bowl) 21-27
2016 L vs Kansas St. (Texas Bowl) 28-33
2017 L @ UCLA 44-45
2017 L vs Wake Forest (Belk Bowl) 52-55
2018 W vs N.C. St. (Gator Bowl) 52-13
2019 L @ Clemson 10-24
2019 W vs Oklahoma St. (Texas Bowl) 24-21
2020 W vs N. Carolina (Orange Bowl) 41-27
2021 W vs Colorado (Denver) 10-7
2023 L @ Miami 33-48
2023 L vs Oklahoma St. (Texas Bowl) 23-31
2024 L vs USC (Vegas Bowl) 31-35

So looking at current power 4 teams that we played OOC either in bowls, neutral site, or true road games we are 13-26 since 1994. Very few of those were true road games but in those we are 2-9 against current P4 schools ... but SMU, Utah, nor Pitt were P4/5 at the time we played them so excluding those we'd be 0-8

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2003 to 2011 is brutal

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The entire list is brutal...Most of the A&M wins were less than 6 point wins

JJxvi said:

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If Texas had agreed to maintain the series, we would have won in Austin multiple times...said no one ever !

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fify

OOC road games against big teams don't feed merchants in BCS on Saturdays, nor do they afford 12th Man Foundation members the opportunity to bring the entire family to town and hang out and wear some really ugly-a## clothes (not the colors, best ones in the universe --the styles!) and watch some directional school get pounded. And so they were never ever a priority.

I hate giving KDS credit for anything, and especially here b/c the decision to go SEC was a milestone carved before his arrival. But his 2012 season gave us a brief moment where we could see that there was more to life than 8-4. Even there, his reversion wasn't met with the alarm that it deserved, because he was still bringing everyone in. A single home win more in each season past 2012, and Sumlin survives another year or two longer. And if Jimbo had won a single game at home each year more than he did, he'd still be here as well.

Fair is fair, though. Any coach who continually craps the sheets at home wears out his welcome. Only the blue bloods really care about OOC, and a fair amount of the time there are rivalries involved (ND/anyone; Clemson/Georgia; Florida/Florida State). Now if you win at home enough, and can defend the house against all comers, that success should start to carry over into big road games. "Should." We haven't done that in a while. I'd say focus there first.

fightinag said:

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JJxvi said:

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If Texas had agreed to maintain the series, we would have won in Austin multiple times...said no one ever !

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fify

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Texas would have been underdogs in probably 4 out of those 6 games in Austin. Maybe wouldnt have got four but two, extremely likely.

Bison said:

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OOC road games against big teams don't feed merchants in BCS on Saturdays, nor do they afford 12th Man Foundation members the opportunity to bring the entire family to town and hang out and wear some really ugly-a## clothes (not the colors, best ones in the universe --the styles!) and watch some directional school get pounded. And so they were never ever a priority.

I hate giving KDS credit for anything, and especially here b/c the decision to go SEC was a milestone carved before his arrival. But his 2012 season gave us a brief moment where we could see that there was more to life than 8-4. Even there, his reversion wasn't met with the alarm that it deserved, because he was still bringing everyone in. A single home win more in each season past 2012, and Sumlin survives another year or two longer. And if Jimbo had won a single game at home each year more than he did, he'd still be here as well.

Fair is fair, though. Any coach who continually craps the sheets at home wears out his welcome. Only the blue bloods really care about OOC, and a fair amount of the time there are rivalries involved (ND/anyone; Clemson/Georgia; Florida/Florida State). Now if you win at home enough, and can defend the house against all comers, that success should start to carry over into big road games. "Should." We haven't done that in a while. I'd say focus there first.

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Most coach tenures, even very long tenures, ultimately turn on a couple of games. Football is a game of inches, and so is coaching. Being a successful program or not is often dependent on very minute details. That's why it has been so easy for Aggies to be ok with mediocrity over the decades. The culture that Texas A&M fosters is not to win at all costs; it is to support Texas A&M at all costs, including the team and coaches. As a result, our fanbase, donors, and administration tend to cling to moral victories and commend our on-field performance even if we come up a bit short. "We were just one bad call away from beating No. 1 Clemson. Great game, boys!" Winning programs don't have that attitude. Hopefully it eventually changes, but I personally see no sign of a change.

If the most cool guy sees no sign of change, then there is no hope for change. We'll be lucky to win 6 games. We are not a winning program.

Capstone said:

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Technically true, but Empower Field is less than 30 miles from CU... not really a neutral site game.

Add in the fact that Folsom holds significantly fewer people, the total number of CU fans was probably equal to or greater than if it had been played on their campus.

For stat purposes - neutral site

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Yeah… this is akin to the stat about us not winning 10 games in a year since 2012. While that is accurate to the letter of the stat, we only lost 1 game in 2020.

People will parrot that figure against us, but anyone who knows ball understands that it doesn't tell the whole story.

Since a 14-12 road win at Pittsburgh in 2002, we've lost 6 consecutive road games to nonconference Power 4/5 teams:

2003: 35-18 loss @ #18 Virginia Tech
2005: 25-24 loss @ Clemson
2007: 34-17 loss @ Miami
2017: 45-44 loss @ UCLA after blowing a 44-10 lead with 4:08 left in the 3rd quarter.
2019: 24-10 loss @ #1 Clemson
2023: 48-33 loss @ Miami

Our 2021 win over Colorado was at Mile High Stadium, which counts as a neutral-site game. Therefore, it's not a true road win at Folsom Field. However, it's our first regular season win over a nonconference Power 4/5 team outside of the state of Texas since 2002, unlike our 2015 win over Arizona State at NRG Stadium.

I hope we can beat Notre Dame to snap that 6-game road losing streak to nonconference Power 4/5 teams, but I won't be surprised if we lose that road game. If that happens, our road losing streak to nonconference Power 4/5 team would extend to 7 games, and drought would last at least 25 years until 2027, when we play at Arizona State.

I went to four of those 7 losses. I promise I'm not returning to South Bend this year.

Ou 93 in Norman was a beat down. RC recurring theme here Ofer vs anyone decent OOC bowls don't count.
You left off two more losses not power 5, but typical RC.
Not sure of the year but they were BYU 96 and USL 96
Weren't power 5 but we couldn't beat anyone on the road it's a bad list. Way too many L's
CU Folsom field is much tougher environment than invesco field. CU in Boulder routinely
Beat us starting in 95 and is a hard place to play. We maybe won once there.

Tamuco99 said:

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RingOfive said:

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Colorado 2021. It was at Mile High, but that was probably a tougher win that it would have been on their campus.

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Neutral site, not a true road win which is why he added that qualifier.

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Neutral site?

The game was played 26 miles from Folsom Field and 932 miles from Kyle Field.

Colorado elected to play their home game in a different stadium. That was their choice. That's not a neutral site. It's like when Arkansas plays a home game in Little Rock each year.

The Big East was a legit football conference in 2002. The 2002 Miami version was one of the best collections of talent in college football history. Va. Tech was good. Boston College, Pitt, and West Virginia all won 9 games that year.

Yep. Plus the power 5 or power 4 confernece wasn't created until all the conference realignment crap.

Basically it's only really been around for 10+ years.

phatty26 said:

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Ou 93 in Norman was a beat down. RC recurring theme here Ofer vs anyone decent OOC bowls don't count.
You left off two more losses not power 5, but typical RC.
Not sure of the year but they were BYU 96 and USL 96
Weren't power 5 but we couldn't beat anyone on the road it's a bad list. Way too many L's
CU Folsom field is much tougher environment than invesco field. CU in Boulder routinely
Beat us starting in 95 and is a hard place to play. We maybe won once there.

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Yeah ... those two weren't fun but were left off since the OP was about P4 teams ... also left the 1991 @Tulsa game off the SWC era for same reason.

Tamuco99 said:

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RingOfive said:

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Colorado 2021. It was at Mile High, but that was probably a tougher win that it would have been on their campus.

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Neutral site, not a true road win which is why he added that qualifier.

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I was there at that game. It was not a neutral site, regardless of technicalities and semantics. It would be the equivalent of playing Colorado at Reliant Stadium- there would be a definitive home field advantage for the Ags.