Gyles Marrett said:

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It has a lot to do with what I'm seeing with Buzz and the basketball program...

Every single coach that ever existed preaches about culture, buy in, and trusting the process but not many can actually get it to happen. Jimbo preached about it a lot but all the other symptoms we were seeing smelled to high heaven of toxicity and terrible culture. Full of words making us all believe dog **** smelled like roses.

Now back to Buzz and basketball. He preached very similarly and I'll be the first to admit being a harsh critic 2-3 years ago. I thought he was great with words but couldn't coach and produce a quality product. Of course we don't know how this basketball season will end up, but I'm now seeing the culture and buy in across the board on that team and as a TEAM fully invested in the success of those around them. That's not a natural characteristic of your average egotistical 18-22 year olds which is why it's difficult to create. I think Buzz has done it. It was a process and getting the personality/talent combo's here to buy into what he was preaching. Extremely stressful no doubt to get there but he seems to really really enjoy coaching that group now.

We do not have that level of buy in and culture yet in the football program. It's more difficult as well as your talking about 100 guys and not 15ish. But at this point I'm seeing much more of the symptoms that the words Elko is preaching are being taken seriously within the program than the symptoms we saw around Jimbo's program.

I forget the recruit but it caught my attention yesterday a recruit shared anothers post on X of Elko visiting him and the words he wrote were "great man". You can obviously be a great man and lose or coach poorly too but I honestly believe Elko is building a team that wants to play and win for him and those around him. Some people just have that natural aura of a leader while others just tell you they are important and a leader.

It didn't take me long to have trouble believing the things Jimbo was saying but I trusted it because of his resume. When Elko speaks I am believing what he's saying. So when he says "I will never watch Texas A&M play defense like that again" I believe it.

Now flame away how we are terrible, the sky is falling, and we are destined for failure.

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Wake me up when Buzz when's the second game of opening weekend. Until then, culture doesn't mean S. Do you really want to be a "culture" school when it comes to sports? That's fine, but I would like to compete and win national championships. Call me crazy.

And I'll add that Elko may want to build a culture of winning but he isn't anywhere close to having it. This team lost their last four games against P4 teams. That's a culture alright. A culture of losing. We already have that down.

beerad12man said:

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Jimbo was trending closer to a 6 win coach than 9. He averaged 7.67 over 6 years, but 6.67 in his final 3 and recruiting was only going down. The portal was not his specialty, and there's zero reason to think he's be more than a 6/7 win coach moving forward.

8 wins was also year one. Maybe that's all Elko is, but it's far premature to claim that now. You don't replace a guy to improve wins in year 1. Year 1 is always a bonus. Yes, even in this new world. You replace a guy to build a sustainable program. The story is yet to be written on Elko.

You haven't been proven right on anything. It's been one year, and your numbers aren't even close to accurate anyways.

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You know what fixes culture?

An Offensive coordinator who can call anything but 20 dive on 3rd or 4th and short...

We were like 4 for 14 or something stupid like that... You get 4 more, you might have 2 more wins!!!

NoahAg said:

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Jimbo would have won 10 games with our schedule this year.

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No way. He would have lost 7.

Gyles Marrett said:

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Every single coach that ever existed preaches about culture, buy in, and trusting the process but not many can actually get it to happen.

But at this point I'm seeing much more of the symptoms that the words Elko is preaching are being taken seriously within the program than the symptoms we saw around Jimbo's program.

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Yep, they all say the various buzzwords. It's coach-speak. Talking the talk is the easy part, they all do that.

So what are the symptoms you are seeing, say the top five or so.

The difference between Buzz Williams and Mike Elko is Buzz had been a long time coach well before coming to A&M. Buzz Williams had an elite eight and many sweet 16s prior to coming to A&M. Buzz Williams was one of the bigger names in college basketball when A&M hired him. Elko was a bargain basement hire that wouldn't say no. Elko might work out but they are nothing alike.

The first warm rays of sunshine this winter season and the pumpers are sprouting already. They'll grow until summer, spreading like a noxious weed until the first freeze of fall kills them.

SunrayAg said:

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Believe what you want to believe. I know several small children who believe that a fat man in a red suit slid down their chimney and left them toys a couple of weeks ago.

That makes about as much sense as what you are selling. Roster turnover and the transfer portal makes "culture" a moot point.

I believe we spent 77 million to buy out a 9 win coach, and replaced him with an 8 win coach.

So far I have been proven right.

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LOL 9 win coach. You are a clown.

AWP 97 said:

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Gyles Marrett said:

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It has a lot to do with what I'm seeing with Buzz and the basketball program...

Every single coach that ever existed preaches about culture, buy in, and trusting the process but not many can actually get it to happen. Jimbo preached about it a lot but all the other symptoms we were seeing smelled to high heaven of toxicity and terrible culture. Full of words making us all believe dog **** smelled like roses.

Now back to Buzz and basketball. He preached very similarly and I'll be the first to admit being a harsh critic 2-3 years ago. I thought he was great with words but couldn't coach and produce a quality product. Of course we don't know how this basketball season will end up, but I'm now seeing the culture and buy in across the board on that team and as a TEAM fully invested in the success of those around them. That's not a natural characteristic of your average egotistical 18-22 year olds which is why it's difficult to create. I think Buzz has done it. It was a process and getting the personality/talent combo's here to buy into what he was preaching. Extremely stressful no doubt to get there but he seems to really really enjoy coaching that group now.

We do not have that level of buy in and culture yet in the football program. It's more difficult as well as your talking about 100 guys and not 15ish. But at this point I'm seeing much more of the symptoms that the words Elko is preaching are being taken seriously within the program than the symptoms we saw around Jimbo's program.

I forget the recruit but it caught my attention yesterday a recruit shared anothers post on X of Elko visiting him and the words he wrote were "great man". You can obviously be a great man and lose or coach poorly too but I honestly believe Elko is building a team that wants to play and win for him and those around him. Some people just have that natural aura of a leader while others just tell you they are important and a leader.

It didn't take me long to have trouble believing the things Jimbo was saying but I trusted it because of his resume. When Elko speaks I am believing what he's saying. So when he says "I will never watch Texas A&M play defense like that again" I believe it.

Now flame away how we are terrible, the sky is falling, and we are destined for failure.

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Wake me up when Buzz when's the second game of opening weekend. Until then, culture doesn't mean S. Do you really want to be a "culture" school when it comes to sports? That's fine, but I would like to compete and win national championships. Call me crazy.

And I'll add that Elko may want to build a culture of winning but he isn't anywhere close to having it. This team lost their last four games against P4 teams. That's a culture alright. A culture of losing. We already have that down.

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Keep sleeping.

Azeew said:

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SunrayAg said:

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Believe what you want to believe. I know several small children who believe that a fat man in a red suit slid down their chimney and left them toys a couple of weeks ago.

That makes about as much sense as what you are selling. Roster turnover and the transfer portal makes "culture" a moot point.

I believe we spent 77 million to buy out a 9 win coach, and replaced him with an 8 win coach.

So far I have been proven right.

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LOL 9 win coach. You are a clown.

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A clown who understands math. Maybe buy a calculator if it's too hard for you . And a clown who recognizes when the clowns in charge overpaid without upgrading. A clown who understands that serious men don't spend 77 million to buy out mediocre, and replace it with more mediocre.

But thank you so much for adding your wise and well thought out analysis.

You earn 3 internet tough guy points.

It seems this board is filled with internet tough guys who can fling personal attacks… but none who can refute my math.

I never said Jimbo was the best coach ever, or would fix all our problems. I said if the people who make decisions for Texas A&M were competent, they would not spend 77 million to fire a coach, unless they had an upgrade lined up to replace him. They didn't.

You have been very clearly refuted.

At best, you are posting misleading "math". Fisher was a career 9 win coach. Fisher had become closer to a 6-7 win coach his last two years, and 7.5 wins his last 8 years. Tons of data to show he wasn't going to be a 9 win coach moving forward. So no, the program at this time was not a 9 win program.

Again, anyone trying to defend Fisher as a current 9 win coach sounds ridiculous. Using his 2013/2014 seasons as justifications to what he had clearly become just makes you look ridiculous. This isn't a personal attack. It's just straight up calling it what it is.

As for mediocre with mediocre? I honestly can't say. Elko may very well just be mediocre. But I think there are more things going on behind the scenes that people who spend money see Jimbo wasn't doing that Elko does do. Will it translate? I don't know. Does it give us a better chance in the current landscape? Myself along with many others absolutely think so. Only time will tell.

Either way, we had to try something else. Whether it was last year or a year from when we did it, it was either going to be 77 or 68. A very high number and kicking the can down the road a year or two doesn't make much difference. Unless you just assume we give him until 2028 when it really starts to get lower.

Just admit it. you posted something very misleading, and now are changing the argument when people called you out on it.

Even at FSU, he'd have been unlikely to be a 9 win coach in the ACC the way things were trending under him there.

beerad12man said:

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Jimbo was trending closer to a 6 win coach than 9. He averaged 7.67 over 6 years, but 6.67 in his final 3 and recruiting was only going down. The portal was not his specialty, and there's zero reason to think he's be more than a 6/7 win coach moving forward.

8 wins was also year one. Maybe that's all Elko is, but it's far premature to claim that now. You don't replace a guy to improve wins in year 1. Year 1 is always a bonus. Yes, even in this new world. You replace a guy to build a sustainable program. The story is yet to be written on Elko.

You haven't been proven right on anything. It's been one year, and your numbers aren't even close to accurate anyways.

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Hell, Saban went 7-6 and lost to Louisiana-Monroe in his first year at Alabama. Year one doesn't always say a lot about how a coach will do long term.

Not only does it not always say a lot. In reality, it has shown literally zero correlation to future success. No one has ever been able to provide a year one correlation to predicting that coaches future.

Far more coaches who are elite now, had a mediocre year one.

Far more coaches who had a great year one (Examples Sonny Dykes, Kevin Sumlin, Gene Chizik, Larry Coker, and the list goes on), ended up peaking and actually decreasing than sustaining it.

Ini fact, there are only TWO active coaches, Ryan Day and Dan Lanning, who won 10 games in year one and have sustained that level of play. They both took over 10+ win programs, too. Day won 13, a year after the previous coach won 13. Lanning won 10, a year after the previous coach won 10.

There are zero examples of an 8-5 type program who won 10 in year one, and sustained that success for multiple years. It has taken every other coach multiple years to get that consistency.

Agree.
Folks can look deeper into what he accomplished in two seasons with low-profile DUKE to know that he has a tremendous upside with our resources. And the QB he developed just led ND to a big win last night.

So you're judging Elko on his first year? Ridiculous! What was Sark's record his first year at t.u.? It was 5-7...in the Big 12!!! So don't be so quick to think Elko is another bad coach. I believe patience is a virtue, and, in the end, Elko will prove you (and others) wrong.

Haha. Sadly that sounds right. Someone needs to manage A&M money as the leaders definitely don't know how to manage it efficiently.

SunrayAg said:

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That makes about as much sense as what you are selling. Roster turnover and the transfer portal makes "culture" a moot point.

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If you're recruiting the kind of kids for whom culture does not matter you are not going to get very far for very long.

CSAg1970 said:

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So you're judging Elko on his first year? Ridiculous! What was Sark's record his first year at t.u.? It was 5-7...in the Big 12!!! So don't be so quick to think Elko is another bad coach. I believe patience is a virtue, and, in the end, Elko will prove you (and others) wrong.

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Thankfully this message board is not representative of most Aggies I know.