Since winning the Big 12 in 1998, we have lost 4+ games in 24 of 26 years, and the only exceptions were when we finished 11-2 (6-2 SEC) in 2012 and 9-1 (8-1 SEC) in 2020. We finished with 7 or 8 wins in 14 of the last 26 years.

We finished with 8 wins 8 times: 1999, 2001, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, and 2024

We finished with 7 wins 6 times: 2000, 2004, 2007, 2011, 2017, and 2023

We finished 9-4 4 times; bowl losses in 2006 and 2010 and bowl wins in 2013 and 2018.

We finished with exactly 6 wins twice: 6-6 (3-5 Big 12) in 2002 and 6-7 (3-5 Big 12) in 2009.

We missed bowl eligibility just 4 times: 4-8 (2-6 Big 12) in 2003, 5-6 (3-5 Big 12) in 2005, 4-8 (2-6 Big 12) 2008, and 5-7 (2-6 SEC) 2022

Next year, we will have a tougher home/away split because our toughest games against Notre Dame, LSU, Missouri, and Texas will all be on the road instead of at home. We will play a true road game at Arkansas for the first time since 2013 and at LSU the very next week. Also, our schedule is very unbalanced with 3 straight SEC home games against Auburn on 9/27, Mississippi State on 10/4, and Florida on 10/11 before a stretch of 3 straight SEC road games at Arkansas on 10/18, LSU on 10/25, and Missouri on 11/8 in span of 4 weeks. With that schedule, I think we will have a floor of 7-5 and a ceiling of 9-3 with likely road losses at Notre Dame, LSU, and Texas. The 5 road games at Notre Dame, Arkansas, Missouri, LSU, and Texas will make or break our season.

So folks gotta vote with their feet and wallets before the chosen "system" is reevaluated.

Medaggie said:

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CoachLB said:

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The lack of football knowledge on here sometimes shocks me. Elko will win a championship here.

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You can not decide anything after a year with a 1st year coach. BUT good coaches improve their teams as the season progresses not crash/burn.

I would have rather seen 3 early season losses then improvement by years end. What happened with the team imploding is all on the coaching staff.

ASU got better = good coaching
We got worse = bad coaching

It has nothing to do with the players. It has everything to do with the coaching.

My kids have been part of many sport teams. You can see who were the good and bad coaches with little to do with how many wins they had all year.

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You don't think that had anything to do with the quality of our opponents?

No way some of you tie your own shoes without help.

Alabama: 9-4 with a 1st year head coach. About to fire their co-defensive coordinator.
Texas A&M: 8-5 with a 1st year head coach. No changes.

cmsaggie12 said:

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The media and coaches are telling everyone it was still a successful season, the culture has changed. But the result is the same. Until we all collectively say, no the season was a failure, then 8-5 will continue to be tolerated.

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Your full assessment was good, but this statement is myopic. You can't build anything in a year. You can have expectations to win a championship, but year zero, or year one, realistically nothing will happen until the coach has his pieces in place. 9-3 is good for a first year. 8-4 even. First year 12-0, 13-0 is luck..that isn't a coach who is good at building anything.

Why is Nick Saban a good coach? Is it his experience? Is it that he whips everyone in the locker room until they perform?

Everyone on this board demands perfection and results but they have no understanding of what it takes to build a program.

MyComputerCareer said:

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Totally agree with OP re Jerry Jones. However, state school ADs are non profits. EV is nice and all, but end of the day it's a zero sum game in college. The last 20ish years you've seen obscene facilities and coaching salaries with exponential TV distributions. Money had to be spent somewhere to stay competitive. We're entering a new world where players will get direct comp. Coaching salaries will flatten and shiny new object facilities likely level off as well. You see it this year in the SEC coaching changes (ie none). Makes more sense to invest $10mm in roster/staff than $45mm to fire Venables. We're going back to the 80's in roster mgmt but it will be above board for all schools this time around.

Re Elko, make no mistake the way this season ended was a failure. Would wager he feels the same. I take comfort that a guy from Jersey who grew up in a trailer park and has the grit to get this far will continue to grind it out and fix the defense. Too early to say he's anything more than that right now. I take no comfort in close losses and an 8-5 season.

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Well, Jimbo was a coal miners daughter, how did that turn out?

PanzerAggie06 said:

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HJack20 said:

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DeBoer could go 6-6 and they wouldn't fire him after year 2. A coach with that contract isn't getting canned after 2 seasons.

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De Boers contract guarantees him 90% of the remaining contract should he be fired without cause. Which means if they did want to fire him after next season, should the seasons tank, Bama would owe him approximately $59 million. Not quite a Jimbo payout but still pretty damn steep.

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He's not going anywhere

the most cool guy said:

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I'm getting esoteric and going back to my undergrad philosophy classes at A&M with this, but I remember having a class-wide discussion/debate when we were going over systems theory about the philosophical proposition known as POSIWID.

It stands for "the purpose of a system is what it does." This is basically the lens through which I have viewed most things in life ever since, and I think it is pretty accurate.

If you're evaluating a system, and you want to know its purpose, just look at what it actually does. If the promoters of the system try to tell you that its purpose is to do something other than what it does, ignore them and look at what the system actually does in practice.

The Texas A&M athletic department, and more specifically our football program, consistently does only one thing exceptionally well: generate revenue for itself. As far as I am concerned, that is its purpose, not to win championships.

Now, is it within the realm of possibility that the purpose of the football program is, in fact, to win championships, but it has just been failing miserably to do that for the last 85 years? Maybe that's possible. But what is the likelihood that a system was created for the primary purpose of winning championships and failed to do so for 85 consecutive years? The far more likely explanation is that the people running our athletic department now and for the last 85 years view the football program first and foremost as a revenue generator and a branding and marketing supplement for the university, and actually winning games/championships is a distant second or third priority.

What is the solution? I don't know. But you won't convince me our football program's number one priority is winning a championship until we win one or at least play for one. It's a revenue generator, which is why mediocrity is tolerated as long as dollars keep coming in.

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If the goal is to just make money... why for a coach and be on the hook for $77MM

wangus12 said:

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Quote:

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If DeBoer goes 7-5 or 8-4 next year for Bama, he's gone. Won't even make it to the bowl game.

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Maybe, but Alabama is begging people to give them money to help increase NIL. Do they have the money buy out DeBoer's 8 year/$87m contract? A&M is definitely struggling from buying out Jimbo and we have a ****load more money than Bama does

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I was curious about this. Is DeBoer's contract guaranteed?

Jackie's 1985 team was elite

finished #6 in the AP poll

played 6 ranked opponents (Alabama, Baylor, SMU, Arkansas, t.u., and Auburn)

those teams were loaded with future NFL players

the SWC went 3-1 in its bowl games in 1985 -- when bowl games still mattered

Sbisa Chef said:

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cmsaggie12 said:

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The media and coaches are telling everyone it was still a successful season, the culture has changed. But the result is the same. Until we all collectively say, no the season was a failure, then 8-5 will continue to be tolerated.

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Your full assessment was good, but this statement is myopic. You can't build anything in a year. You can have expectations to win a championship, but year zero, or year one, realistically nothing will happen until the coach has his pieces in place. 9-3 is good for a first year. 8-4 even. First year 12-0, 13-0 is luck..that isn't a coach who is good at building anything.

Why is Nick Saban a good coach? Is it his experience? Is it that he whips everyone in the locker room until they perform?

Everyone on this board demands perfection and results but they have no understanding of what it takes to build a program.

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8-5 can be deemed crap and at the same time we don't have to change coaches. But anyone who suggests firing should not be considered and the seasons results are acceptable in year one is THE problem!

I'll bet not booing became a tradition after 1939.

It's a good point, but Jimbos won a national championship, has been to the top. Guaranteed $mm's ruined both Sumlin (you could argue completely wrecked his personal life too) and Jimbo as coaches. What's lost in these guaranteed contract discussions is: you're not pulling Jimbo from FSU without the guaranteed money. We monetized that NC for him. Now we should have absolutely called his agents bluff during the LSU debacle. Huge mistake.

This won't be a popular opinion here, but after time off with a chance to reset Jimbo will be back, will adapt, and find success again IMO.

CoachLB said:

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The lack of football knowledge on here sometimes shocks me. Elko will win a championship here. The guy has been successful everywhere. He took over a mess of a program. Elko is not lazy. He does not need fan pressure. He will put pressure on himself. He is getting rid of the players who won't get with the program. And our fans whine because "I liked that guy." The football stupid sip fans said the same things about Sark after his first two seasons. I am not "pumping sunshine" Elko is going to get A&M there. It may cost you your favorite player but he will and is getting guys in here that will do the work it takes. Losing Moss, Owens etc hurt us late. Weigman going crazy hurt. But like I said Elko is getting the right guys in here. All this doom and gloom after year one shows just as much craziness as the sips wanting Sark fired after year one. Don't be sip-like. You have to build a championship program. Saban was on the hot seat after one season at Alabama. If A&M is not a 10 win playoff contender next season I will comeback and say I was wrong. But the football signs to me says I am not.

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Do you know how many times we've heard this before?

Looks at all the data and comes to the conclusion that we don't fire coaches quickly enough. Interesting analysis.

Holy crap we really are Texas 8&4!!!

MyComputerCareer said:

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It's a good point, but Jimbos won a national championship, has been to the top. Guaranteed $mm's ruined both Sumlin (you could argue completely wrecked his personal life too) and Jimbo as coaches. What's lost in these guaranteed contract discussions is: you're not pulling Jimbo from FSU without the guaranteed money. We monetized that NC for him. Now we should have absolutely called his agents bluff during the LSU debacle. Huge mistake.

This won't be a popular opinion here, but after time off with a chance to reset Jimbo will be back, will adapt, and find success again IMO.

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I don't know, he certainly doesn't need the money. Ego or love of the game, same with Belichek.

Yep, Georgia went ALL in, look where it got them. Until the baby boomer A&M brass that graduated late 60's/early70's retire and move on, we will be in the same boat year after year. They would rather have tradition over championships.

Guess that's the farmer way...

I would until the non-baby boomers decide yo do something until of merely complaining, we are stuck where we are.

agchugger said:

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If you TRULY believe this, why are you here? If you know the team you like has zero shot to ever win then why would you waste any time being a fan? If in your heart, you believe there is ZERO chance your team can compete, why even spend a minute on a message board talking about it? Sure, you can go to the games and have fun tailgating and enjoy the crowds and wins when they happen, but it kinda seems pointless to invest so much energy if you believe they don't ever have a shot to win.

If you think they only care about money, why do you keep giving them yours?

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I was going to post this same thing. OP doesn't truly believe what he posted or he wouldn't have posted.
More of a whining, grasping, hoping someone will help him feel better post.

CoachLB said:

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The lack of football knowledge on here sometimes shocks me. Elko will win a championship here. The guy has been successful everywhere. He took over a mess of a program. Elko is not lazy. He does not need fan pressure. He will put pressure on himself. He is getting rid of the players who won't get with the program. And our fans whine because "I liked that guy." The football stupid sip fans said the same things about Sark after his first two seasons. I am not "pumping sunshine" Elko is going to get A&M there. It may cost you your favorite player but he will and is getting guys in here that will do the work it takes. Losing Moss, Owens etc hurt us late. Weigman going crazy hurt. But like I said Elko is getting the right guys in here. All this doom and gloom after year one shows just as much craziness as the sips wanting Sark fired after year one. Don't be sip-like. You have to build a championship program. Saban was on the hot seat after one season at Alabama. If A&M is not a 10 win playoff contender next season I will comeback and say I was wrong. But the football signs to me says I am not.

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I agree with you. We must not forget that this was Elko's first year. Many on this board demand immediate results and cite examples to show that it can be done. Unfortunately that is not how it works if you want to build a strong program for the long term. Elko has to recruit well, get good players from the TP and coach them up and then manage games well.

infinity ag said:

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CoachLB said:

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The lack of football knowledge on here sometimes shocks me. Elko will win a championship here. The guy has been successful everywhere. He took over a mess of a program. Elko is not lazy. He does not need fan pressure. He will put pressure on himself. He is getting rid of the players who won't get with the program. And our fans whine because "I liked that guy." The football stupid sip fans said the same things about Sark after his first two seasons. I am not "pumping sunshine" Elko is going to get A&M there. It may cost you your favorite player but he will and is getting guys in here that will do the work it takes. Losing Moss, Owens etc hurt us late. Weigman going crazy hurt. But like I said Elko is getting the right guys in here. All this doom and gloom after year one shows just as much craziness as the sips wanting Sark fired after year one. Don't be sip-like. You have to build a championship program. Saban was on the hot seat after one season at Alabama. If A&M is not a 10 win playoff contender next season I will comeback and say I was wrong. But the football signs to me says I am not.

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I agree with you. We must not forget that this was Elko's first year. Many on this board demand immediate results and cite examples to show that it can be done. Unfortunately that is not how it works if you want to build a strong program for the long term. Elko has to recruit well, get good players from the TP and coach them up and then manage games well.

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Agree with both of you, but I wouldn't count on a 10 win season in the 2nd year neither. I just expect to see much progress. When 25' is over, I want to have that "can't wait until next year" feeling, not the "If we can fix this, that, and get portal transfers, hopefully....." feeling. After 25' hopefully our starters won't come from the transfer portal.

Quote:

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Since winning the Big 12 in 1998, we have lost 4+ games in 24 of 26 years, and the only exceptions were when we finished 11-2 (6-2 SEC) in 2012 and 9-1 (8-1 SEC) in 2020. We finished with 7 or 8 wins in 14 of the last 26 years.

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This is just a sad stat. Truth sucks.

Well if you really want to dig yourself not the depths of self pity, we have a .609 all time winning percentage barely qualifying in the top 25, if you really want to dig deeper, go look at the schools ahead of in total wins and winning percentage. We have a losing bowl game record all time. Plus, we've fired every coach we've ever hired, except for 3 (?).

TXAGBQ76 said:

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Well if you really want to dig yourself not the depths of self pity, we have a .609 all time winning percentage barely qualifying in the top 25, if you really want to dig deeper, go look at the schools ahead of in total wins and winning percentage. We have a losing bowl game record all time. Plus, we've fired every coach we've ever hired, except for 3 (?).

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Best answer to the most asked question.

I'd really like to know where Elko and Klein were on Weigman prior to the start of the season. How did they misread the QB situation? Was Weigman really that good in practice, or did they quietly have reservations, but wanted to give him the benefit of doubt and see how it went?

Or is Weigman really a good QB that just didn't fit Klein's system? Will he excel at UH this year?

zb008 said:

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"Never" is a strong word. We were on the cusp of doing something great in 2012 and 2020. It's not like we haven't been close before.

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The A&M football program was on the cusp of National relevance after the 1998 Big XII Championship season.....and then Oklahoma hired Bob Stoops.

Once OU hired Stoops it was all over. Most of the big time NFL caliber recruits from Texas that might not want to sign with UT were suddenly ditching A&M and Tech for the greener pastures of Oklahoma.
After OU won the 2000 National Title you couldn't stop the 4 & 5 star recruits from fleeing up north to play football.

The 1998 Texas A&M Aggies were an elite team.
The bonfire tragedy coupled with OU hiring a legend at coach took Texas A&M from being the 1997 & 1998 BIGXII South champs to a largely mediocre football club.

The downfall of the 1990's Texas A&M dynasty can be largely traced to the rise of OU as a National Power, and the rise of Mike Leach and the Texas Tech Red Raiders.

Charlie Murphy said:

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We just paid a coach $70mm to leave, if it was soley about money, Jimbo would still be here.

As it turns out, hiring a head coach that consistently wins at a high level is extremly difficult.

Take Georgia, look at how they have been historically before Smart.

Alabama before Saban? Google the last championship they had before him.

Texas is trending upwards in year 3 with Sark. They have one national championship in the last 60 years.

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Yes, I came here to post EXACTLY this!
Glad to know there are some people with their heads on straight!

A. G. Pennypacker said:

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I'd really like to know where Elko and Klein were on Weigman prior to the start of the season. How did they misread the QB situation? Was Weigman really that good in practice, or did they quietly have reservations, but wanted to give him the benefit of doubt and see how it went?

Or is Weigman really a good QB that just didn't fit Klein's system? Will he excel at UH this year?

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Weigman is excellent in shorts or 7on7.
He will be great at UH.

I think when the lights are on and you're at 120% full speed and there is a blitzing linebacker in your face, that's the problem.
He couldn't stop the adrenaline. The footwork was sloppy, passes sailed, tried to do too much and it all came unraveled.

I had a similar situation in my HS hoops career with much, much smaller stakes!

trip98 said:

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The tldr version is he's saying our athletic department only cares about making money.....not championships.
Therefore the athletic department has been successful in its mission.
If we want to win, the focus needs to be on winning and not money

IMO there's SOME truth to that...but prime example that is NOT the case is giving Jimbo such a dumb ass extension

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And the baseball team last year.

We were 11 outs away from a NC. And we may well compete for one again this year in baseball.

Saban went 7-6 his first year at Bama. Good thing that fan base didnt run him off after a mediocre 1st season

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Until we all collectively say, no the season was a failure, then 8-5 will continue to be tolerated.

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OK, so how many likes do I need on this post to the idea that "No the season was a failure because we went 8-5" for it to turn things around and we go 13-0? I bet I can get a bunch and it won't make a damn bit of difference. Dumb post is dumb...

Self-loathing is a kind of fanaticism I guess…

GoodAg Paulie said:

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Saban went 7-6 his first year at Bama. Good thing that fan base didnt run him off after a mediocre 1st season

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Everyone always cites this as an example, but they leave out the fact that Saban inherited a program that had just come off of probation. Because of that, Alabama had very limited scholarships when he first got there, meaning he had hardly any talent to work with in his first year there. There's a reason why most coaches wouldn't touch the Alabama job with a ten foot pole at the time.

How much money does A&M need to spend ? Over the last 20 years, we've built a state of the art stadium and made five coaching changes. Fran was 'the hire' at the time. Firing a longtime coach and poaching Fran from Bama. Sherman? That was a classic RC special. Sumlin was a hot commodity and did well out of the gate. We replace him with Jimbo and then eat a $90 million contract. We've been very generous in paying players in the NIL world. In some ways, ND is showing the way. We need a junior/senior team with lots of depth. We've never had it. A team that is physically mature and strong. Improve our numbers in the NFL draft. That won't happen in one year. Is Elko the answer? I hope so. If not, A&M will pay up for another coach as usual.